bogie
Member
"Homeland Defense Research and Development Amendment."
Wanna repeal '86 MG ban?
- Thread starter Dmack_901
- Start date
- Status
Zundfolge
Member
Good luck with that
Republicans have a well documented history of giving into liberals and Democrats when they really didn't have to ... too many of them buy this stupid idea that if you're nice to liberals and Democrats they'll be nice back (our current President is one of these).
If Republicans decided to remove the MG ban, the media (controlled by libs and Dems) would wail and gnash their teeth so the Republicans would just give in ... its happened that way time and time again.
Call me a cynic, but I believe the Republican scuttling of the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act is an anomaly ... many of us are amazed that the Republicans didn't just sign the darn thing with the AWB extension tacked on.
And if you look at the '86 FOPA, it has this MG ban in the first place ... not exactly Republicans standing up for their beliefs.
But hell, maybe I'm being too cynical and pessimistic ... maybe it could be done ... lets write our congresscritters and see what we can do
nhhillbilly
Member
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2003
- Messages
- 544
I would love to see a repel but don't see that happening anytime soon. But I do see that we can change the 1968 law allowing us to purchase any gun from an FFL in person no matter what the state you or the FFL is from. This should be a no brainer with the so--called instant check (brady check) that is computerized. Along with tort reform.
rock jock
Member
I'm with Standing Wolf. I just can't see ever buying a MG even if they were more affordable.
GigaBuist
Member
They did that already this year, remember? All that talk of AK-47's, Uzi's and Tec-9's covering our streets in blood? The anti-gun lobby already tried pulling out all the stops so what would they say this time around?
"No, really, REAL machine guns. Yeah, we were sorta lieing last time."
S
schizrade
Guest
Getting a little ahead of ourselves aren't we? How about start by repealing all of the AWB's that states have erected? Florida is next. How about nationwide CCW? Keep looking to ClassIII NFA and we may lose the regular stuff while our attention is diverted.
I doubt prices/value would drop to much. If the demand is there, they'll still command the higher prices. Ar's and the such didn't plummet in value when the AWB ended. Who's to say that manufactuers would even offer MG's for civilian sale. Good idea but we'll never see it happen.
The prices would drop. No one is going to pay $11,000 for an M16 when they could buy an AR, pay the $200 tax, and convert it themselves. As for the civilian sale part, it doesn't matter who the manufacturer intends it to be for, because you buy from the dealer. Why pay loads of cash for old MGs when you could buy a brand new one for the same prices the police/dealers get them for?
carpettbaggerr
Member
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2003
- Messages
- 1,676
Push it to the liberals as a new tax on gunowners. It'd pass in a second. 
Then gimme an American 180.
Then gimme an American 180.
beerslurpy
member
Actually I dont think that the media outcry over the 86 ban would get much attention since most people think we already legalized machine guns in september. Its not like NFA items are ever used in crimes, so I dont think there is much risk of genuine bad publicity from dropping 922(o).
And its not like machine guns will suddenly become legal in CA or NY, since they are already illegal there on the state level. Actually, 99 percent of the places where people are likely to complain "oh noes machine guns" you can simply counter with "actually machine guns will still be illegal here" and you will be 100% correct. Swamp dwelling rednecks like myself are going to be the only people truly affected by a repeal of the ban and we WANT machine guns to be available so we can purchase them.
And its not like machine guns will suddenly become legal in CA or NY, since they are already illegal there on the state level. Actually, 99 percent of the places where people are likely to complain "oh noes machine guns" you can simply counter with "actually machine guns will still be illegal here" and you will be 100% correct. Swamp dwelling rednecks like myself are going to be the only people truly affected by a repeal of the ban and we WANT machine guns to be available so we can purchase them.
Just curious, if a law was passed that it was legal to own new manufacture full autos and import such for sale to regular folks but kept the $200 fee as a 'filter' to discourage bad folks from getting them, would you be ok with that?
I'm not saying I'm pro or con on this but suggesting it as a compromise that might work (yeah, right - never happen in any case, GWB would never move on it in any form).
I would for a Glock 18 or M4 for a fair price. Afterall, I just spend that much on a big family holiday dinner in an upscale restaurant and that's already down the chute so to speak.
I'm not saying I'm pro or con on this but suggesting it as a compromise that might work (yeah, right - never happen in any case, GWB would never move on it in any form).
I would for a Glock 18 or M4 for a fair price. Afterall, I just spend that much on a big family holiday dinner in an upscale restaurant and that's already down the chute so to speak.
Zundfolge
Member
The $200 tax comes from the 1934 NFA, not the 1986 FOPA, so even if we get rid of the MG ban from '86, they would still be regulated under the NFA (and I don't ever see that one going away ... although at the current rate if inflation that $200 tax will seem like a $20 fee before I'm done on this earth
).Check out what that $200 tax was like in 1934?
Source
Sam Adams
Member
Zundfolge
Actually, the MG ban was tacked on at the last moment by (IIRC) Richard Hughes (Democrat, NJ). The FOPA was signed by Reagan because, apparently, no one in the WH knew about this, or at least if they did they didn't tell Ronnie. Reagan would probably not have signed it if he knew.
As for me, I'd love to see the MG ban repealed. I want a full-auto version of whatever rifle the Army and Marines are issuing to soldiers at any point in time (and the XM-8 is soon to be the M-8, replacing the M-4/M-16 family). I'd also like a Tommy Gun with the BFDM (big ___ drum magazine), a micro-Uzi, something full auto in .22LR and a few other nice toys - for a reasonable price. Right now, I can get these items, but it would probably set me back about $50,000 - no thanks, I simply can't afford it (and THIS, by the way, was EXACTLY the point of the MG ban in the first place).
Actually, the MG ban was tacked on at the last moment by (IIRC) Richard Hughes (Democrat, NJ). The FOPA was signed by Reagan because, apparently, no one in the WH knew about this, or at least if they did they didn't tell Ronnie. Reagan would probably not have signed it if he knew.
As for me, I'd love to see the MG ban repealed. I want a full-auto version of whatever rifle the Army and Marines are issuing to soldiers at any point in time (and the XM-8 is soon to be the M-8, replacing the M-4/M-16 family). I'd also like a Tommy Gun with the BFDM (big ___ drum magazine), a micro-Uzi, something full auto in .22LR and a few other nice toys - for a reasonable price. Right now, I can get these items, but it would probably set me back about $50,000 - no thanks, I simply can't afford it (and THIS, by the way, was EXACTLY the point of the MG ban in the first place).
Id love to see the import ban(s), new MG ban and cop-killer ban lifted.
However to be politically viable, even with republican control of the federal government, gun owners would have to be willing to give something in return for any and/or all of the following.
Consider some sort of licensing, or additional regulations on things like ammuntion (ie 4473-ish forms for purchase) if we want it to stick. Would any of you be willing to pay the price?
That being said ive been dreaming of a P-90, a H&K PDW, Steyr TMP, a GMG and possibly an M3 for varying degrees of time. The bad thing would be that if the MG ban was repealed id sell one of my kidneys.
However to be politically viable, even with republican control of the federal government, gun owners would have to be willing to give something in return for any and/or all of the following.
Consider some sort of licensing, or additional regulations on things like ammuntion (ie 4473-ish forms for purchase) if we want it to stick. Would any of you be willing to pay the price?
That being said ive been dreaming of a P-90, a H&K PDW, Steyr TMP, a GMG and possibly an M3 for varying degrees of time. The bad thing would be that if the MG ban was repealed id sell one of my kidneys.
Last edited:
How's about another "assault weapons ban" We include language that says that the code banning new MGs is removed, provided they're registered. We throw in some "assault" stuff to make the liberals happy and push it through. We take their words and throw them back. If they kill it because they didn't want new MGs, we politely point out the outcry at the end of the '94 ban, and that we were simply fixing the problem. They'll shut up and swallow it, because they'll get kicked for not requiring the registration of MGs. We might also redo the NFA to make the tax $50 instead of $200, and say that only Congress can make policy, BATFE only enforces it. Take away some of their bite.
I'm dreaming of course, but by taking advantage of the ingnorance of the masses and turning it against the libs, we could pull stuff like this off.
I'm dreaming of course, but by taking advantage of the ingnorance of the masses and turning it against the libs, we could pull stuff like this off.
Hkmp5sd
Member
Commercial sales of the MP5 began in 1965. There are some transferrable "real" MP5s floating around.
Bohemian
Member
I fully support the Repeal of the 1986 Machine Gun Ban (The Firearm Owners Protection Act (FOPA)) May 19, 1986
If there was ever a more blatant infringement of our 2nd amendment rights, the 1986 machine gun ban is it...
But its not going to happen if every gun owner, ccw permit carrier, etc., in America does not recognize these bans and 2nd amendment infringements as a stepping stone to total gun confiscation such as happened in the U.K.
As gun owners it is our duty to oppose all gun control legislation, and actively lobby for the repeal of all existing gun control measures and 2nd amendment infringements including but not limited to the Brady Bill(s) and Clinton Ban(s).
Again we must let our representatives in Washington and the NRA know that this is not a dead issue and that we will not rest until these 2nd amendment infringements are reversed! We must make a continued effort to write, email, fax, telephone our representatives in Washington and the NRA that we want these superfluous liberal anti-gun bills and bans repealed!
Beginning with Repealing 1986 Machine Gun Ban (The Firearm Owners Protection Act (FOPA)) May 19, 1986.
Judge Samuel Alito's dissent in U.S. v. Rybar, 103 F.3d 273 (3rd Cir. 1996), argued that federal restrictions on machine gun possession amounted to an unconstitutional exercise of Congressional power under the Commerce Clause. He hit it on the nail head my fellow citizens! We now finally have someone on the Supreme Court that is not a liberal...
The U.S. Supreme Court should in fact adopt Alito's dissent...
United States vs. Rybar:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Rybar
Samuel Alito:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Alito
The Firearm Owners' Protection Act (FOPA) 1986:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act
And our representatives in Washington should repeal, with public pressure from every gun owner in America and the NRA and GOA amend and abolish the last minute liberal entry; preventing civilian manufacture and ownership of Class III weapons manufactured since the date of the act's enactment that was unconstitutional and is what we need amended, repealed etc., the rest of it is pretty good... this part of the May 19, 1986 Firearm Owners Protection Act, does nothing more then create a market for illegal machine guns for the criminal element in this country much as the prohibition of alcohol once did...
Write, call, email, fax the media and our representatives in Washington and give them no peace until the May 19, 1986 Firearm Owners Protection Act is abolished! Further let them know that Americans will no longer tolerate Washington and the Courts re-interpreting the Constitution to their liberal and special interest ends...
This constitutional infringement has to stop and previous infringements have to be reversed!
Here are a few links to get you started:
Write your representatives:
http://www.capwiz.com/nra/dbq/officials/
Sign online NFA Ban Petition:
http://www.petitiononline.com/NFABAN2/petition.html
Read the unabridged 2nd amendment:
http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/unabridged.2nd.html
Visit & support the National Rifle Association Institute for Legislative Action:
http://www.nraila.org/
Visit Gun owners of America:
http://gunowners.org/
Visit U.S. Concealed Carry, The Ultimate Resource for the Armed Citizen:
http://www.usconcealedcarry.com/
Read When Heroes are Outlawed; How Joel Myrick Saved Lives by Breaking the Law:
http://www.davekopel.com/2A/OpEds/HeroesOutlawed.htm
Know where each and every candidate (for any office) is on the issues especially those with a Anti-Gun Agenda.
http://thinknewt.blogspot.com/2007/08/repeal-1986-machine-gun-ban.html
Semper Fidelis
If there was ever a more blatant infringement of our 2nd amendment rights, the 1986 machine gun ban is it...
But its not going to happen if every gun owner, ccw permit carrier, etc., in America does not recognize these bans and 2nd amendment infringements as a stepping stone to total gun confiscation such as happened in the U.K.
As gun owners it is our duty to oppose all gun control legislation, and actively lobby for the repeal of all existing gun control measures and 2nd amendment infringements including but not limited to the Brady Bill(s) and Clinton Ban(s).
Again we must let our representatives in Washington and the NRA know that this is not a dead issue and that we will not rest until these 2nd amendment infringements are reversed! We must make a continued effort to write, email, fax, telephone our representatives in Washington and the NRA that we want these superfluous liberal anti-gun bills and bans repealed!
Beginning with Repealing 1986 Machine Gun Ban (The Firearm Owners Protection Act (FOPA)) May 19, 1986.
Judge Samuel Alito's dissent in U.S. v. Rybar, 103 F.3d 273 (3rd Cir. 1996), argued that federal restrictions on machine gun possession amounted to an unconstitutional exercise of Congressional power under the Commerce Clause. He hit it on the nail head my fellow citizens! We now finally have someone on the Supreme Court that is not a liberal...
The U.S. Supreme Court should in fact adopt Alito's dissent...
United States vs. Rybar:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Rybar
Samuel Alito:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Alito
The Firearm Owners' Protection Act (FOPA) 1986:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act
And our representatives in Washington should repeal, with public pressure from every gun owner in America and the NRA and GOA amend and abolish the last minute liberal entry; preventing civilian manufacture and ownership of Class III weapons manufactured since the date of the act's enactment that was unconstitutional and is what we need amended, repealed etc., the rest of it is pretty good... this part of the May 19, 1986 Firearm Owners Protection Act, does nothing more then create a market for illegal machine guns for the criminal element in this country much as the prohibition of alcohol once did...
Write, call, email, fax the media and our representatives in Washington and give them no peace until the May 19, 1986 Firearm Owners Protection Act is abolished! Further let them know that Americans will no longer tolerate Washington and the Courts re-interpreting the Constitution to their liberal and special interest ends...
This constitutional infringement has to stop and previous infringements have to be reversed!
Here are a few links to get you started:
Write your representatives:
http://www.capwiz.com/nra/dbq/officials/
Sign online NFA Ban Petition:
http://www.petitiononline.com/NFABAN2/petition.html
Read the unabridged 2nd amendment:
http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/unabridged.2nd.html
Visit & support the National Rifle Association Institute for Legislative Action:
http://www.nraila.org/
Visit Gun owners of America:
http://gunowners.org/
Visit U.S. Concealed Carry, The Ultimate Resource for the Armed Citizen:
http://www.usconcealedcarry.com/
Read When Heroes are Outlawed; How Joel Myrick Saved Lives by Breaking the Law:
http://www.davekopel.com/2A/OpEds/HeroesOutlawed.htm
Know where each and every candidate (for any office) is on the issues especially those with a Anti-Gun Agenda.
http://thinknewt.blogspot.com/2007/08/repeal-1986-machine-gun-ban.html
Semper Fidelis
Last edited:
SoCalShooter
Member
I would love to see it repealed but my state would still have a ban since my state does not respect the feds at all.
Bohemian
Member
RE: Wanna repeal 86 MG Ban?
SoCalShooter...
Yours is a good reason why those in the republic of California and the kill free zone of new york city need to continue to lobby for a nationwide preemption law that prevents states, counties, cities, municipalities, etc., from enacting more stringent gun control measures then at the national level...
Additionally, reverse those already on the books....
Write your representatives in Washington and the media:
http://www.capwiz.com/nra/dbq/officials/
Semper Fidelis
SoCalShooter...
Yours is a good reason why those in the republic of California and the kill free zone of new york city need to continue to lobby for a nationwide preemption law that prevents states, counties, cities, municipalities, etc., from enacting more stringent gun control measures then at the national level...
Additionally, reverse those already on the books....
Write your representatives in Washington and the media:
http://www.capwiz.com/nra/dbq/officials/
Semper Fidelis
Gunnerpalace
Member
Be optimistic people, just saying "it will never happen" does not help. use the stats on crimes committed with NFA items (2 crimes) to KO the anti's, and the tax statement will win over a few Dem's. Oh, and the line for a Mini-gun starts behind me .
.Regolith
Member
Holy thread resurrection Batman.....
I think it'd be easier to challenge the constitutionality of the ban in court than it would be to get legislation passed that nixed the law. Even back in 2004, when this thread was started, it'd have been hard to do. Hopefully, SCOTUS will rule in our favor in the Heller case, and we'll be free to challenge the constitutionality of the ban after (and maybe of several other federal regulations as well).
I think it'd be easier to challenge the constitutionality of the ban in court than it would be to get legislation passed that nixed the law. Even back in 2004, when this thread was started, it'd have been hard to do. Hopefully, SCOTUS will rule in our favor in the Heller case, and we'll be free to challenge the constitutionality of the ban after (and maybe of several other federal regulations as well).
Ratzinger_p38
Member
This I hope will happen - but step by step. First goes the DC ban. Then Chi-town and its suburbs' bans. (it is true that complete bans like that are somewhat rare, except for AWBs) Then the state AWBs need to be attacked. Perhaps then the 'junk handgun' laws? (Or as you should really call them - "guns for poor people ban")
Even perhaps more important are the draconian permit process NYC and some of our territories have. Massachusetts is a sucky place to be a gun owner at for this reason. THEN, we attack the 86 ban.
Couple of points though - the import ban was if I am not mistaken, and executive order of GHWB's. How do you repeal that? I am not sure you can, which is why I dont like executive orders.
I have long awaited the lift of the MG ban. There are scores of M14s that would probably become very cheap (under 1000 dollars I bet, considering they would flood the market like combloc junk)
Bad, bad bad idea. Youd need to kill that PART of the law, which can be done. You do NOT want the rest of it repealed. It made a federal registry illegal if you recall. Some gun owners have short memories...keep in mind the mini SCOTUS (the DC court of appeals) said that a registry does not violate the 2A (as at one point, guns used in militia service were registered), so you'd open the floodgates.
Even perhaps more important are the draconian permit process NYC and some of our territories have. Massachusetts is a sucky place to be a gun owner at for this reason. THEN, we attack the 86 ban.
Couple of points though - the import ban was if I am not mistaken, and executive order of GHWB's. How do you repeal that? I am not sure you can, which is why I dont like executive orders.
I have long awaited the lift of the MG ban. There are scores of M14s that would probably become very cheap (under 1000 dollars I bet, considering they would flood the market like combloc junk)
Bad, bad bad idea. Youd need to kill that PART of the law, which can be done. You do NOT want the rest of it repealed. It made a federal registry illegal if you recall. Some gun owners have short memories...keep in mind the mini SCOTUS (the DC court of appeals) said that a registry does not violate the 2A (as at one point, guns used in militia service were registered), so you'd open the floodgates.
precisionshootist
Member
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2007
- Messages
- 186
Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner!
The NRA and the pro-gun community in general are wasting way too much time and money trying to lobby and elect politicians to solve what in reality is a legal problem. We had both houses of congress and the presidency and accomplished exactly squat. The only gain was accomplished by an act of doing nothing and allowing the assault weapons ban to expire. We have the right to own machine guns, period! We should be using resources to continually push these issues in court and to put public pressure on SCOTUS with more of a demeanor that we are not asking but demanding these unconstitional laws be overturned. We are playing way to nice.
Bohemian
Member
The part of the FOPA of 1986 that prevents civilian manufacture and ownership of Class III weapons manufactured since the date of the act's enactment was a last minute liberal entry that was unconstitutional and is what we need amended, repealed etc., the rest of it is pretty good...
E.G.:
Firearms Owners' Protection Act
(McClure-Volkmer Act) - Public Law 99-308
Amended the Gun Control Act of 1968 to repeal some of the sillier
provisions of that enactment, including the ban on transportation
of one's own firearms to another state (which had been a hassle
particularly for hunters), the record keeping requirement on the
sale of ammunition (which generated enormous quantities of useless
paper), the ban on interstate sales of long guns (which, then as
now, are infrequently used in crime); and limited the surprise
inspections of licensed gun dealers' premises to just once a year.
It also made it a federal offense, whether a Federally licensed
firearms dealer or not, to transfer or sell a gun to any individual
who is prohibited by the GCA '68 from owning guns, such as a felon.
In a peculiar procedural move, the House-passed version of this
NRA-backed legislation contained a ban on the possession and transfer
of new machineguns by civilians, which became effective when President
Reagan signed the Act into law, May 19, 1986. Machineguns which
were manufactured prior to that date are regulated under the National
Firearms Act, but those manufactured after the ban cannot be sold
even to civilians who are already licensed to own machineguns.
The Senate approved the machinegun ban language of the House bill
without a roll call vote, though their original bill did not include
the ban amendment added in the House and sponsored by U.S. Rep. William
J. Hughes (D - N.J.). (The parliamentary shenanigans surrounding this
are quite strange, and are found in Congressional Record v.132 p.H1751
and p.S5358.) Essentially, at what was literally the last minute, the
acting chairman of the Committee of the Whole in the then-Democrat-run
House, New York congressman Charles Rangell, declared in a simple voice
vote that Rep. Hughes' "poison pill" amendment had been adopted, and
that the "ayes" had it. This ban has later been found unconstitutional
in the case of_U.S. v. Rock Island Armory_(Federal Supplement, v.773
p.117) but the decision was not appealed to the Supreme Court.
I seriously doubt Ronald Reagan would have signed the FOPA of 1986 if he had known about this last minute liberal underhandedness...
Start writing your representatives in Washington and the Media:
http://www.capwiz.com/nra/dbq/officials/
http://www.capwiz.com/nra/dbq/media/
E.G.:
Firearms Owners' Protection Act
(McClure-Volkmer Act) - Public Law 99-308
Amended the Gun Control Act of 1968 to repeal some of the sillier
provisions of that enactment, including the ban on transportation
of one's own firearms to another state (which had been a hassle
particularly for hunters), the record keeping requirement on the
sale of ammunition (which generated enormous quantities of useless
paper), the ban on interstate sales of long guns (which, then as
now, are infrequently used in crime); and limited the surprise
inspections of licensed gun dealers' premises to just once a year.
It also made it a federal offense, whether a Federally licensed
firearms dealer or not, to transfer or sell a gun to any individual
who is prohibited by the GCA '68 from owning guns, such as a felon.
In a peculiar procedural move, the House-passed version of this
NRA-backed legislation contained a ban on the possession and transfer
of new machineguns by civilians, which became effective when President
Reagan signed the Act into law, May 19, 1986. Machineguns which
were manufactured prior to that date are regulated under the National
Firearms Act, but those manufactured after the ban cannot be sold
even to civilians who are already licensed to own machineguns.
The Senate approved the machinegun ban language of the House bill
without a roll call vote, though their original bill did not include
the ban amendment added in the House and sponsored by U.S. Rep. William
J. Hughes (D - N.J.). (The parliamentary shenanigans surrounding this
are quite strange, and are found in Congressional Record v.132 p.H1751
and p.S5358.) Essentially, at what was literally the last minute, the
acting chairman of the Committee of the Whole in the then-Democrat-run
House, New York congressman Charles Rangell, declared in a simple voice
vote that Rep. Hughes' "poison pill" amendment had been adopted, and
that the "ayes" had it. This ban has later been found unconstitutional
in the case of_U.S. v. Rock Island Armory_(Federal Supplement, v.773
p.117) but the decision was not appealed to the Supreme Court.
I seriously doubt Ronald Reagan would have signed the FOPA of 1986 if he had known about this last minute liberal underhandedness...
Start writing your representatives in Washington and the Media:
http://www.capwiz.com/nra/dbq/officials/
http://www.capwiz.com/nra/dbq/media/
- Status
