Wanna repeal '86 MG ban?

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Even from the point of view of a reasonable anti(possible oxymoron), I don't see how letting new ones be made could cause more crime if they are still regulated the same. It doesn't change the process to get one, it just lowers the price. Call it something like the "Minority and Low Income Self Protection Device Manufacturer Act". Because the NFA tax, registration, and background check don't change at all. I honestly don't mind registering a MG, that way the ATF knows who not to break into during the night.
 
It's my conviction that if relief's to be had it'l more than likely happen thru the courts. Parker is a real ray of sunshine on the horizon and hopefully once decided will provide the vehicle for further attacks on those elements of the '34/'68/fopa that truly infringe the 2nd.

I can see no credible deliverance from any other avenue. Even otherwise well respected political figures that have tried to pass favorable gun rights legislation have had utterly no success....And even tho I'm a Life NRA member the reality is that they are NOT going to jump on that controversial bandwagon............It may not make sense, but the truth is that perception is reality, and the hack job that'd be done via the left leaning liberal press would be very difficult, probably impossible to counter..........Can't you just see Time or Newsweek with an enlarged, smoking photo of an M/60 at Knob creek..........Played side by side with the maniacal photo's of that crazy bastard at Va. Tec......

Our one real hope is in our Judicial system.
 
RE: Wann repeal '86 MG ban?

The right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed…
The right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed…
The right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed…

Get it?

I think what most gun owners, that are also hopefully registered voters that vote as well do not realize is the last minute entry onto the 1986 FOPA that prevents civilian manufacture and purchase of Class III Weapons made after effective date is an liberal assault on all gun owners and a stepping stone to total gun confiscation!
Moreover, a blatant, deliberate constitutional infringement of the 2nd Amendment…

Just because you think you may not ever be interested in purchasing a class III weapon does not mean you should fail to do your duty as a gun owner and an American citizen to support the 2nd amendment and oppose any and all infringements thereof…

There are literally millions of gun owners in the U.S., which is why politicians either fear or respect the NRA, GOA and most organized gun owner groups…

No other demographic in the U.S. has a greater ability to influence policy then the law abiding gun owner groups in America…

This shameful amendment to the 1986 FOPA got through because the majority of gun owners did not know about it or did not step up to the plate because they figured if it does not affect me and my Glock, who cares…

Read & support the Unabridged Second Amendment:
http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/unabridged.2nd.html

Write your representatives in Washington and the Media:
http://www.capwiz.com/nra/dbq/officials/

http://www.capwiz.com/nra/dbq/media/

Sign online NFA Ban Petition:
http://www.petitiononline.com/NFABAN2/petition.html

Visit & support the National Rifle Association Institute for Legislative Action:
http://www.nraila.org/

Join the Fight to Save American Jobs and homeland security!:
http://numbersusa.com/index
 
????

some of you still dont get it ::the 1934 law is based on the commerce clause.that commerce can be taxed.in 1934 gun owners agread to the tax to prevent a ban on pistols that probable would not have gone thru.the laws are so muddled now that I dont think any one knows whats going on.
one should note what is being taught in schools as to the future thinking of the people.:banghead:---:banghead:---:banghead:
 
Bad, bad bad idea. Youd need to kill that PART of the law, which can be done. You do NOT want the rest of it repealed. It made a federal registry illegal if you recall.
Click to expand...
Does anyone here really believe that there is no current federal database?? I mean with the Miami shooter, they told everyone exactly what he bought the same day of the shootings.
 
I have no doubt in my mind the ATF has a registry right now, and I don't have a tin foil hat either.
Click to expand...

Yeah but it is not a 'true' database where they can type in your name and look and see what you have. Im sure much of it is based on outdated 1074s from retiring FFLs, which of course works out to be a de-facto database. Be nice if someone challenged the practice in court, but I wouldnt hold my breath.
 
Does anybody really see this happening though? I can't see it as even a remote legislative possibility. Maybe if you made it a state's right issue before SCOTUS, some places who actually trust their law-abiding citizenry would surely allow full auto. But you'd never see congress take such a stand. For the senate especially, a better-armed citizenry just makes their precious plutocratic police state more precarious.

Though if California wins their medical marijuana case before SCOTUS, I can certainly see a challenge to the MG ban on the same grounds.

Mmm... PPS-43. *drools*
 
I wish someone would make a video demonstrating how ineffective full-auto fire is. Set up 5 silhouette targets at 15 yards, with a very large, long roll of paper behind them so that misses can be spotted. Do timed fire, 5 seconds. First with a bolt-action rifle or something, and shoot each one in the head. Take the camera up, show off the holes in each silhoutte's head, etc. Then either patch the holes or replace the targets.

Then for the second one, just wildly spray rounds in the targets' general direction with a machine gun, "sweeping" back and forth just like in the movies. Take the camera up, and see how many "lethal" hits you got compared to 5 aimed head shots. "Got this guy in the arm... this one got the crap scared out of him but is fine other than that... this guy got hit in both legs..." etc.

Get enough hits on Youtube, and you could change the opinion of a not insubstantial portion of the population.

Don't use a semi-auto for the first part, though. That'd just lead some non-gun people to the wrong conclusion, that semi-autos need to be banned as well. But anyone who would want to ban bolt action rifle is already too far gone.
 
I would love to see it happen and I would do anything within my powers to help.
However, it would take a massive campaign just to re-educate the brainwashed public that full auto guns aren't inherently evil. Heck, a lot of people, even a lot of supposedly pro-gun people don't even think we should have military-style semi autos. If somebody tried to repeal the machine gun ban now, there would be a public outcry of indignation like nothing we've ever seen before.
But I refuse to give up. I think we should all do more to educate people about firearms instead of letting them believe the bull they hear on TV. That's gotta be the first step.
 
this is a great thread to bring back from the dead. It shows just how little gun owners have recieved as return on investment for our votes on the national level.

A fairly low budget lawsuit is getting better potential for results than million of votes, because promises are not kept.
 
It will come up eventually as I said be optimistic, RKBA shall not be infringed, And who here would agree with me that the ATF has all our names in a computer?
Click to expand...

Might want to adjust your tin hat a little there. How is it most names get in the computer? FFL records. When does the ATF get said 1074s? Almost all of them upon retirement of an FFL.
 
I think daily education of our peers in the gun community, about the FOPA/NFA 2nd Amendment infringements, is a great suggestion as word of mouth is generally the fastest way to get a particular topic or concern around.

I also still believe that if all of us card carrying members of the NRA, GOA, SAF and CCW holders start getting back on their butt about it, then perhaps we can build a fire under their butt-in-ski’s and build some momentum towards this much needed amendment...

Additionally, writing, emailing, faxing and telephoning our representatives in Washington is always a good idea...
Further, we have the presidential elections coming up, campaigning well underway and many of our other representatives are coming up for election/re-election in the next one-two years...

We need to let them know that there are more issues then the war on terror and securing our borders, although I support both; but not at the expense of continued disregard for the 2nd amendment and the FOPA/NFA of 1986 that needs amended...
The best time to get something changed is when somebody is up for election/re-election that already carries some weight in Washington…

I do not want to end up in the same boat as those in the U.K. ...

Write your representatives in Washington:
http://www.capwiz.com/nra/dbq/officials/

Write the Media:
http://www.capwiz.com/nra/dbq/media/

General Guide to Class III Weapons:
http://www.recguns.com/Sources/IIF1.html

Read the Unabridged Second Amendment:
http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/unabridged.2nd.html

Sign online FOPA/NFA Ban Petition:
http://www.petitiononline.com/NFABAN2/petition.html

Visit the National Rifle Association Institute for Legislative Action:
http://www.nraila.org/

GOA - Visit the Gun Owners of America:
http://www.gunowners.org/

Join the Fight to Save American Jobs and homeland security!:
http://numbersusa.com/index

SAF - Second Amendment Foundation:
http://saf.org/

Semper Fidelis
 
I wouldn't buy a fully auto because I don't want to blow that much ammo, but I fully support the right of people to own them.

What I would like to see repealed, is the import/sale bans on SBRs. I would love to have a true M4/AR-15 carbine as well as a UMP-45 or MP-5, even if they were only semi-auto.
 
Wanna repeal the '86 MG ban?

You hit the point on the nail head my fellow free-thinking American…

Although, a full-auto weapon is not your cup of tea; you support & recognize the inalienable constitutional right of others to own them!

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Without this amendment, all others are meaningless. This amendment is a guarantee to the people of the United States of America that the right to keep and bear arms can not, shall not, nor will not be infringed upon.

To infringe upon - by definition - is the attempt to limit the right of:

* legal or moral entitlement to do - or refrain from doing - some thing;
* legal or moral entitlement to obtain - or refrain from obtaining - an action, thing or recognition in civil society. In the Second Amendment, the entitlement is the right to the action(s) of keeping and bearing a thing called arms by the people.

What this means is, the people, who in times of need may form a militia, have the inalienable right to keep and bear arms without fear of such right being vacated. In order to be an effective militia - an integral part of a free society - the people should be armed in equal or greater proportion than any potential threat - foreign or domestic - and trained to use such armament. Additionally, the un-infringed right of the people to keep and bear arms is the most powerful deterrent to tyranny.

Write your representatives in Washington:
http://www.capwiz.com/nra/dbq/officials/

Write the Media:
http://www.capwiz.com/nra/dbq/media/

Write GOA - the Gun Owners of America:
http://www.gunowners.org/

Write the National Rifle Association Institute for Legislative Action:
http://www.nraila.org/

Write the NRA News:
http://www.nranews.com/

Semper Fidelis
 
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"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops…" Noah Webster, "An Examination into the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution" (1787) in Pamphlets on the Constitution of the United States (P. Ford, 1888)

Semper Fidelis
 
LOL

That will happen when group X decides enough is enough and split from the Union. Call me crazy but that won't happen until they come knockin but by then it'll be too late.

I'd love to get it repealed but seriously, in this America, in this day and age is nothing more than a sad joke.:banghead:
 
My challenge:

Everybody whom reads this thread and believes this particular part of the FOPA/NFA of 1986 to be a 2nd amendment infringement; follow the links below and write each and every one of your representatives; and a letter to each of the major media networks in your area; just a paragraph or two and as clearly and concisely as possible state why you think the FOPA/NFA of 1986 is a 2nd amendment infringement and how you feel it should be amended etc.

The links below all but do the typing for you; so you have no excuse; you do not need a stamp; if you feel this particular part of the FOPA/NFA of 1986 to be a 2nd amendment infringement; you must do something about it! Don’t be a pessimist!

This is how the liberal left keeps kicking our ass! they are persistent!

Write your representatives in Washington:
http://www.capwiz.com/nra/dbq/officials/

Write the Media:
http://www.capwiz.com/nra/dbq/media/

Once you have wrote the media and your representatives in Washington; write a brief paragraph to the GOA, SAF and the NRA and let them know they are letting us down on this issue!

Write GOA - the Gun Owners of America:
http://www.gunowners.org/

Second Amendment Foundation:
http://saf.org/

Write the National Rifle Association Institute for Legislative Action:
http://www.nraila.org/

Write the NRA News:
http://www.nranews.com/

The last thing I ask is that you convince at least one fellow gun owner a week to do the same; and ask them to do so also; this is not a huge task and it does not take a math major to figure in a short period of time; what a following this movement will get and what a difference it will make…

We all know too many Americans are A.D.D. when it comes to the news; they only pay attention to what they heard today or this week; America needs to be reminded that the FOPA/NFA of 1986 has to be Amended!

Semper Fidelis
 
Everybody whom reads this thread and believes this particular part of the FOPA/NFA of 1986 to be a 2nd amendment infringement; follow the links below and write each and every one of your representatives; and a letter to each of the major media networks in your area; just a paragraph or two and as clearly and concisely as possible state why you think the FOPA/NFA of 1986 is a 2nd amendment infringement and how you feel it should be amended etc.
Click to expand...


I don't want to discourage your effort but you are talking about writing representatives asking them to take action so we the people can own machine guns! right. IMO you might as well send a letter into outer space.

Writing Major media networks. Now that's just silly.


IMO the only chance we have of winning with this issue is through the courts. Any lawmaker trying to legislate legal machine guns would be branded a nutjob by his peers and the media. No politician is going to touch this.
 
Would a politician or member of the media would be called a Nut Job for standing up for a clear and concise 2nd amendment infringement?

Maybe by the liberal left or a pessimist...

With all due respect, the issue is whether Congress, other division, office, etc., of our government or any other lawmaker can infringe upon our right to keep and bear arms by issuing a ban on the ownership of any class of weapon by a law-abiding citizen of the United States... NO THEY CANNOT

A machine gun and any other class of weapon is protected by the 2nd Amendment...

The 2nd Amendment was one of many rights that the original drafter of the Constitution; Thomas Jefferson felt was needed to adequately protect the
inalienable rights of the citizens of the United States. Moreover, why he and our founding fathers added it to begin with...

The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed...

If you believe this, then you as a citizen must support and encourage the Amendment/Repeal of the last minute entry onto the 1986 FOPA/NFA that prevents civilian manufacture and purchase of Class III Weapons made after the effective date.
Read this full thread, particularly #50; to see how deceivingly this was sneaked onto the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986. This is how the liberal left work; they do not face gun owners head on because they always lose...

Moreover, wake up and recognize it for what it is: A liberal assault on all gun owners, all classes of firearms and a stepping stone to total gun confiscation!

Look at the history of gun bans and now total confiscation in Europe and the U.K. in the last 75 years...

Don't be a pessimist...

Write your representatives in Washington:
http://www.capwiz.com/nra/dbq/officials/

Write the Media:
http://www.capwiz.com/nra/dbq/media/

Write GOA - the Gun Owners of America:
http://www.gunowners.org/

Write the Second Amendment Foundation:
http://saf.org/

Write the National Rifle Association Institute for Legislative Action:
http://www.nraila.org/

Write the NRA News:
http://www.nranews.com/

Read The Unabridged Second Amendment:
http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/unabridged.2nd.html

Semper Fidelis
 
Well, dont forget, even if its repealed, prices arent going to fall very much in the first several years.

There is still supply and demand, and most of these firearms are out of production. It will take a while to make more. Dont count on getting a SAW or anything like that for several years, if ever.

Conversions would pop up everywhere, but not alot of factory machine guns aside from the M16 platform.
 
The U.S. Supreme Court on Right To Keep And Bear Arms
In U.S. vs. Verdugo-Urquidez, the U.S. Supreme Court observed, "The Second Amendment protects ‘the right of the people to keep and bear Arms.`"

U.S. vs. Verdugo-Urquidez (1990)
The Supreme Court observed in U.S. v. Verdugo-Urquidez (1990) "`the people` seems to have been a term of art employed in select parts of the Constitution. The Preamble declares that the Constitution is ordained and established by `the People of the United States.` The Second Amendment protects `the right of the people to keep and bear Arms,` and the Ninth and Tenth Amendments provide that certain rights and powers are retained by and reserved to `the people.`"

Appeals Court Strikes Down Washington, D.C. Handgun Ban
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,258067,00.html
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=3226

Read the United States Court of Appeals Opinion on Parker vs. District of Columbia and Mayor of D.C.:
http://pacer.cadc.uscourts.gov/docs/common/opinions/200703/04-7041a.pdf

But why do I care about the D.C. gun ban? Simple, this decision is now a decision that can be used in ANY state court action. While binding only in the District of Columbia, the Parker decision is quite persuasive and will be of use in the year or two that it takes to reach the SCOTUS. Most state courts will be bound by their own federal court interpretations for the near term, but Parker offers light at the end of the tunnel. The most critical factor of the Parker decision is that the court found the Second Amendment is just like any other right, and must be judged the same as the other rights, such as the First Amendment rights. This increased level of scrutiny is a nightmare for gun banners – they must now defend gun bans by demonstrating that there is a compelling state interest and the gun ban law clearly addresses that state interest. This is called “strict scrutiny” and it is used in cases involving a fundamental right, unlike the easier to satisfy “rationale basis” scrutiny...
read the rest at:
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/article3591.html

Remember that the Media and our representatives in Washington respond to public demand and can indirectly aid in keeping liberal anti-gun judges and other lawmakers in line...

Write your representatives in Washington:
http://www.capwiz.com/nra/dbq/officials/

Write the Media:
http://www.capwiz.com/nra/dbq/media/

Write GOA - the Gun Owners of America:
http://www.gunowners.org/

Write the Second Amendment Foundation:
http://saf.org/

Write the National Rifle Association Institute for Legislative Action:
http://www.nraila.org/

Write the NRA News:
http://www.nranews.com/

Read The Unabridged Second Amendment:
http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/unabridged.2nd.html

Semper Fidelis
 
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