want to give my brother a gun....

[Winchester 73]

Flyboy

Thank you for your reply.A lot of interesting alternatives with Joe and Steve.
But I hope we can get a definitive answer on the Crying Wolf/Aunt situation.
I just tried reading through the GCA of 1968, but my stomach gave out after about 10 minutes.
Only a complete masochist could wade through that without hospitalization.
Have not reached that stage quite yet.Coming close day by day.

 

[CryingWolf]

Thanks Winchester, I was sort of leaning that way in any case. I was reminded that I had left the 22 there when I was on the phone with my aunt. This was my first 22 given to me by my grandfather and I would love to give it to my son as his first 22.

 

[wuchak]

Here's what the ATF has to say on the matter.
http://atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1

(B1) To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA? [Back]

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

(B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA? [Back]

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

(B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State? [Back]

A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]

 

[RDak]

In Michigan I don't think I could take the gun to an FFL in another state? I think I'd have to go through my FFL dealer and have him ship it to another FFL holder in the state it is going to.

I can sell a hangun directly to a resident of Michigan if they have the pistol purchase permit from the local police department. I don't think I can do that for out of state residents.

This is line with what wuchak posted if I'm reading his post correctly.

 

[CryingWolf]

OK, I don't mean to go into my entire history of all my firearms but, when I was born I was given a model 1100 Remington 16ga shotgun by my grandfather, it was a little too much gun for me at the time. When I was 11 I was given a small 410ga double barrel shotgun by my father. This a week after I asked for a .22 rifle. When I was 12 I borrowed a 30-30 model 94 Winchester from myself. Actually, if you hunt you will realize that hunting season happens before Christmas. I was told during hunting season that the 30-30 was a loaner and I had to take good care of it. Fast forward to Christmas morning and the last box I opened happened to be that 30-30. When I was 13 I finally got that Remington bolt action .22 rifle. that I had asked for back when I was 11. Now through out my teenage years my parents divorced and I bounced from parent to parent. ALL my firearms except for the .22 were stolen. It really hurts to this day because of the sentimental value of all my firearms. The 30-30 would help me get my first deer when I was 13. The guy my mom brought home from the bar probably got dinged from the pawn broker for the notch I put under the stock as my first deer. Where was the ATF on that one? The rest met similar fates. The last think I remember my grandfather asking me was if I had my 16ga I said it was stolen and he said that was a shame. He had bought that shotgun when I was born. The .22 was the only thing I have left from all of this. I did move in with my aunt and uncle when I was still in HS. I turned 18 in their house before leaving and left my .22 behind when I moved back to Sacramento to be with my Mom. Fast forward to July 2005, I am getting married and contact my Dad who I have not seen in 18 years. My Dad contacts my Aunt and Uncle, and while on the phone with my Aunt she tells me they still have my .22. I repeat MY .22. And even though it seems like I had abandoned my .22 they still recognize it as my .22. As far as the ATF the rules posted above seem more inclined toward sales. Only the part that says "otherwise acquire" but then it goes on to say 'sale' this all seems to be geared toward the sale of firearms not someone getting their property back. Also, my grandfather has passed away, he was the original purchaser and he gave me the .22 rifle back when I was 13. Now I understand that minors cannot really posses a firearm but again I turned 18 while living with my aunt and uncle. I would assume I could posses and would be the owner the firearm at that point.

 

[Gator]

Don't worry about it, it is your gun. And considering the sentimental value, I think you should go get it.

 

[Winchester 73]

As said before,bring it home.Thanks for your encouragement to him,Gator.
Thanks for sharing your story,Crying Wolf.

 

[FTA84]

Residency loop hole?

nvrd

 

[Winchester 73]

Residency loop hole?

Ssshhh.

 

[nalioth]

In Michigan I don't think I could take the gun to an FFL in another state? I think I'd have to go through my FFL dealer and have him ship it to another FFL holder in the state it is going to.

So long as you have possession of the firearm until you hand it over to the FFL in another state, you are fine. This is the same law that says you (the unlicensed individual) can mail a firearm to any FFL licensee in any state.

There is no law that says it must be FFL to FFL.

 

[Pnutz]

Just go and get it.

Sounds like that gun was purchased 20+ yrs ago. Before computers.

 

[VARifleman]

One of the questions on the 4473 form is are you purchasing this firearm for yourself or something similar IIRC and if you answered "No" you're to stupid to own a firearm.

This is WRONG. It asks if you are the PURCHASER. It doesn't care if you are going to gift it to someone, it cares if someone is buying it THROUGH you. THAT is a straw purchase, which also doesn't care whether the person is eligible or not. It's just as much of a straw purchase if you buy a gun with Jack's money for Jack (if Jack is eligible and in your state), than if you buy a gun with Jill's money for Jill (if Jill is ineligible and in your state).

 

[Pnutz]

Here is one view of the situation.

If you are not in violation of some Federal or State law of posession of a firearm. Meaning you meet the Age, mental, non-crimanl requirements and any weird state laws you may have.

how you came into posession of that firearm is your own business.

 

[SR_]

I have always wondered about this. OK, let me get this straight, if I am in the same state I can give my dad a firearm (Handgun or rifle or shotgun) by just driving over to his house and giving it to him. But, if we are in different states I have to go through a FFL? Even if I could drive over and give it to him?

I don't think you got the correct answer -

If the transfer is between residents in the same state, then you must look to state law. State laws might provide some type of restriction. For example, I believe my home state (NC) requires that the recipient have a pistol permit or a valid carry license to receive a handgun. I don't think that possible state law restrictions have been addressed.

Federal laws control when there is a transfer between residents of different states. IMO, those rules are accurately described above.

 

[SR_]

CryingWolf,

You can call the ATF - at least in this area they are very helpful. I had a question almost identical to yours and they said as long as the firearm was mine, I could go back and get it.

 

[Winchester 73]

CryingWolf,

You can call the ATF - at least in this area they are very helpful. I had a question almost identical to yours and they said as long as the firearm was mine, I could go back and get it.

Sounds good.Have to get that .22 home.

 

[keeleon]

Straw purchase: the person buying the gun isn't the actual purchaser. Has nothing to do with whether the end user is legally prohibited. For example, I couldn't legally ask my buddy to pick up a K38 for me when he goes to the gun show, even though it would be perfectly legal for me to buy it myself. If he did, he wouldn't be the actual purchaser. I would.

I live in CA so my knowledge on personal transfers is limited, but what is the difference between him buying it because you asked him to, and him buying it and then selling it to you? If you aren't required to do any paperwork on a personal sale or transfer, how could that situation possibly be a straw purchase?