Was not my night with the Dillon last night

[ny32182]

I probably should have taken the hint early and quit, but I guess the upside is I learned a few things.

I've had the machine since about late April I think, and have loaded approximately 4k rounds of 9mm so far if I had to guess. I normally seem to load about 600 rounds at a time.... seems to be about the number of 9mm that will fit in my tumbler. So, I am not brand new to operating the machine, but also have never taken it apart, or done any parts changes or installation beyond what was needed for the initial setup.

So last night, I get started with everything for my normal 600rd loading session. About 80 rounds in, the shellplate jams up solid. Platform will not go down. I try giving it some taps up and down, jiggle it some more; nothing. Plate will not index. So, I called up my buddy who is a much longer-time 650 owner, and he gave me some verbal instructions on how to take the shellplate off and his guess was that an anvil got stuck under it somehow.

I decide to remove all the components before attempting this, so, I manually clicked out the remaining ~20 primers (system operating normally) and however many cases were in the tube (pretty much full). This left only the case in station number 1, and the one on the runner getting ready to enter #1, which were locked in there since the plate could not rotate. I give the handle one more try, and, it is unjammed. Shellplate indexes, platform drops. Operation is still a little rougher than normal so I decide to take the shellplate off anyway. It comes off with little drama, but, I don't see an anvil or any other solid objects underneath that look like they could be responsible for the jam.

I decide to apply the shop-vac anyway, just to make sure. I instantly learn that the ball bearing under the shellplate can be added to the list of things that are loose and can be readily vaccumed up off the press. (Yes, I did this to a locator button before). This time I don't have the patience to order a new one... take the vaccume bag outside and spend about 10 dirty minutes locating the ball bearing... success!

I clean off the bearing, re-install the shellplate (I hope I did this correctly... I just sort of hand-tightened the big screw in the center of the plate, and tightened the set screw in the side of the ram to be hand-tight with a wrench.)

Load up components... restart loading. Not five rounds later, the case tube jams.... no longer dropping cases. This has happened a couple times before. I don't know the exact cause, but my speculation is that a piece of tumbling media somehow makes it between the case and the wall of the tube. I can't confirm this, because when a jam occurs it is always down in the opaque tube right above the piece that drops them. I can't think of any method other than brute force to address this, but normally it doesn't take that much. I grab the plastic shaft thing that goes in the primer tube, and push down on the stack of cases in the case tube. About 10 seconds later, one pops out the bottom.

Guess what else is a bad idea? Sticking the end with the ball on it into the case tube. Once it makes it past the switch, it doesn't want to come back up. Additional allen wrench is needed to "pick the lock" to get it out.

I loaded about another 100 rounds just to make sure everything seemed to be running relatively smoothly. Total rounds loaded was about 300 in 3 hours. Hopefully the shellplate got back on there correctly.

 

[MtnCreek]

Did you grease the ball bearing when you re-installed it?

 

[ny32182]

It appeared dry before, so I did not. I can add a little tetra grease if that is advisable.

 

[cassaro]

I had the same problem with the shell case not dropping correctly and I found that I did not have the opaque piece seated all the way down. Once I did that the cases have been dropping smoothly for me.

 

[MtnCreek]

I think the manual has a section on lube. I apply grease to the ball bearing under the shellplate, the piece that advances the shellplate (located next to the set screw for the plate bolt), the plastic piece at stage 1 that moves the case into the plate and the main ram. I also hit the grease fittings every so often.

 

[MCMXI]

Good post ... and entertaining too. This is the dirty little secret about progressive presses with or without case/bullet feeders. There's so much more going on and therefore a much narrower window of opportunity to work correctly. When they're good, they're usually very good, but I'm reminded of the expression "Cleanliness is next to Godliness" which is certainly true for progressive presses. They do require routine maintenance in the form of cleaning and lubrication. The shell plates on my new L-N-L are easier to remove/install than my RCBS so I'll be more inclined to remove them to clean the subplate and to lubricate the bearings on the shell plate. In my experience using an RCBS progressive for the last 15+ years is that cleaning media or spent primer parts/residue are the number one cause of problems.

I put together 250 rounds of .45 ACP on my new L-N-L a couple of days ago and about half way through the batch the press jammed up. Turns out that the depriming pin from the RCBS resizing die got stuck (left behind) in the primer flash hole of a case jamming up the press. I've been reloading since '92 and have never had that happen. Other than that I went slow to get used to the timing of the new press and get a feel for seating the primers. All in all a good first reloading session that left me looking forward to the next one.

 

[ny32182]

I've learned a couple more things recently:

1) I believe the jams (have happened a couple more times) are caused by the on-deck primer somehow getting turned slightly sideways in its spot in the disk. The shellplate has very low clearance over this spot while rotating, and if the primer is sticking up at all, a full blown jam is the result. Solution is to remove the primed/charged case that is rotating away from the #2 station, use a punch or similar tool to orient the primer correctly, put the case back on, and proceed.

2) Your $950 setup can be taken down by a broken 23 cent "E-clip" that holds the center shaft in the sizing die in place. Go buy extras before your break your first one, if you haven't already. The good news is they can be found at the hardware store!

I agree 1858, there are so many things that need to go right on each pull of the handle, it is amazing these things work as well as they do.

 

[medalguy]

I agree with the cleaning tip. I have several Dillon presses and had quite a bit of trouble until I figured out they need pretty frequent cleaning. I started with a 450, went to 550, then upgraded to 650. I had so many problems with the 550, particularly the priming operation, that I finally decided that for rifle I would go back to the 450 press. I deprime with a universal depriming die, size and trim if needed in the 1200 size/trim tool, then reprime with an RCBS Autoprime. Only then do I go back to the 450 and charge, seat, and crimp if necessary. I have zero problems with the 450, it doesn't need adjustment all the time, and doesn't need cleaning anywhere as often as the 550 or 650. I do use the 650 for pistol ammo only.

 

[Cop Bob]

Welcome to the Dillon Club... It was stated earlier, CLEAN... CLEAN... and CLEAN.... I keep a small can of compressed air next to my machine.. a little shot under the shell plate seems to keep the gremlins at bay.

Some brands of primers are notorious for wanting to jam up progressive machines.. In the old days it was CCI, today, they have solved those issues, but I have heard of many folks having issues with Wolf and another Russian brand who's name escapes me now..

The only Issue that I have ever had with case feed, was alignment of the drop tube, and maybe not doing the best job at sorting cases, and having an odd caliber end up in the mix..

One thing about it... It IS a Dillon.. and they have written the book on customer service... just give them a call and they will walk you through the proper set up, timing and adjustments to your machine.. most of it is already taken care of in the the design.. many of the parts are indexed to where, it it fits properly, it is in time...

Mentioned earlier, but BUY A SPARE PARTS KIT... cannot go wrong with that move...
B

 

[FROGO207]

Being sort of lazy and really wanting to not have any excess trouble making ammo I am glad that the turret press is the furthest I have ventured so far. I really use the single stage most of the time anyway but the big machines are not my thing. I have used one (550) that belonged to a friend and we spent more time building 400 rounds of 9MM than I could have done on my single stage in batches. If it had worked well things may have been different but he seems to have many issues with it a lot of the time. BTW he has owned it for 10 years AND watched the required videos. I did suggest sending it back to Dillon but he is happy with it the way it runs.:banghead:

 

[lightman]

Dillon makes a good machine,and their customer service is the best.But,they do require occasional cleaning and/or maintenance.What few issues that I have ever had have been solved with a phone call,and any replacement parts have been improved,so that they will not fail you again.As you learn more about your Dillon,you will appriciate it more and more. Lightman

 

[gacajun]

Another little thing you don't want to do is to put the little indexing piece located under the shell plate in backwards...causes the shell plate to index in reverse rotation. Don't ask me how I acquired this little piece of knowledge.....

 

[orionengnr]

This time I don't have the patience to order a new one... take the vaccume bag outside and spend about 10 dirty minutes locating the ball bearing... success!

A magnet will save you some time and effort next time.

 

[OhioChief]

This post makes me laugh. I spend all weekend doing the same thing. Different reason, same result. Except I didn't lose any parts (which is amazing, because that damn primer cam spring wanted to get out in the worst way. I hate that thing! I can't believe you didn't suck up the spring under the ball. Labor of love I guess. I cussed for 2 days, and wish I had 2 more days to dick around with it.

 

[beatledog7]

Threads like this one convinced to buy a single stage press and just go slow. I chose a Hornady LNL and am very happy to be doing one operation at a time but spending zero time fussing over the press's workings. Someday I might add a LNL AP, but for now I'm a happy albeit slow single stage reloader.

 

[ny32182]

Even with the occassional issues, which are much easier to sort out after you have identified the cause the first time around, the speed vs. a single stage or turret is no comparison.

My realistic loading rate at this time when the press is going is about 300 rounds an hour; which is well faster than I can afford components to shoot. When I was trying to ramp up my round count with the turret, I'd spend time every night all week loading that same 200-300 rounds for the weekend. If you want to shoot a lot, progressive is unquestionably the way to go.

 

[MCMXI]

Threads like this one convinced to buy a single stage press and just go slow. I chose a Hornady LNL and am very happy to be doing one operation at a time but spending zero time fussing over the press's workings. Someday I might add a LNL AP, but for now I'm a happy albeit slow single stage reloader.

That's a pity. I don't spend time "fussing" over my L-N-L AP or RCBS PBII and neither do friends that have Dillon presses. I keep my presses clean and lubricated and they work perfectly. I don't go crazy and don't try to achieve unrealistic output rates. I go slow and steady and produce about one round every 3 to 5 seconds until it's time to fill the primer tube. It takes less than 10 minutes to make 100 quality rounds. Try that on a single stage press.

 

[ny32182]

Update. I don't do an exact round count on my press like I do my guns, but I would estimate somewhere around 10k rounds now.

I recently broke another one of the "e-clips", but had an extra from last time around, so it was an easy couple-minute replacement.

Also I was recently getting the case tube jams with ever increasing frequency, to where I couldn't get through 100 rounds without one. I figured there was probably a media build-up in the casefeeder by now, so I took it down and vacuumed it out. Yes, there was a good bit of media in there even with the vent holes in the bottom that probably let most of it out. After this operation I loaded 200 rounds without any issues, so I think that was the problem. After checking the clearance in the little opaque part of the tube, I'm convinced now that a stray piece of media is the only possible cause of these jams, and cleaning media out of the casefeeder on a semi-regular basis should go a long way to cutting down on the number of jams.

I also just had a new malfunction for the first time: a case entering the case tube got stuck sideways in the small funnel right at the top, so no cases can get into the tube, and the casefeeder very quickly fills up the funnel dropping in new cases above the switch. Clearing this is very easy and just takes a second, and like I said, so far it has happened once in ~10k rounds.

I figure one of these days I should figure out how to clean out the priming system as a preventative measure.

 

[ambidextrous1]

It's a good idea to start a reloading session with a short period of cleaning and lubing; a progressive press malfunction will frequently cost you more time than the preventive time you routinely perform.

You should also be alert to having an improper mind-set for reloading. On some days, things just don't go well. Walk away from the press & take care of less critical, routine tasks.

Try to avoid getting in a situation where you have to reload ammo today; always have a reservecache of every load that you shoot regularly.

 

[hogcowboy]

You should also be alert to having an improper mind-set for reloading.

+1 A VERY good idea for sure.

 

[dnmccoy]

Another reason I opted for A Dillon 550 instead of a 650 or LNL...less moving parts to gum up

 

[Trent]

I hate it when primers get turned sideways in my 650. It seems to happen about 3/1000 times in my 650. Go to push up... and .. ahh heck. (Look away to protect the eyes.. push up harder... let down, let out breath). I always just pull that casing out and chuck it aside to deal with later. (Thus, the process can continue, along with the "flow").

I crunched three primers in my last session of 1,000 45ACP, and had one invert itself somehow in the tube (was loaded anvil out, found it when I was boxing up the ammo).

My first bad habit with the Dillon was adding primers and not remembering to flip the thing down and put the follower back in the primer tube. Go to push "up" and get no resistance... ooh, ran out of primers... dangit! Fortunately that's an easy one to solve without it interrupting the process too much (fill primer tube, remove casing, manually index the disk until it's got a primer staged, re-insert case, seat primer, continue).

 

[788Ham]

Sorry guys, ILMAO when I read the OP's rant, I'm not one to friggin' fool with something like that! Glad I've got my single stage downstairs, when I get ready to reload, I'm in the right frame of mind and go to it. I'd never get my LNL-BFD rigga-maroll set up, it takes me a little longer to reload, yes, but to remember the e-wires, greasing the balls on the flip plate........... nah, I'll stick with the single stage. Good luck.

 

[ny32182]

I'll reiterate that my biggest regret with the Dillon is that I did not get it a year or two earlier; for anyone who needs a moderate to large amount of ammo, progressive is the only way to fly. IF this does not apply to you, however, I'd say SS/turret is either just as good or superior.

This coming from a guy who loaded about 6k rounds of 9mm in batches on a turret over the course of 2+ years... even if everything on the progressive breaks at once, it is still literally 10x faster.

I save about .10 a pop on my 9mm match load vs the cheapest somewhat-equivalent commercial stuff out there (WWB), so at 10k rounds loaded on it now, it has "paid for itself" (it was $980 out the door for everything; press, Dillon dies, casefeeder, strong mount, roller handle) and I've only had it for 8 months.

 

[ny32182]

I hate it when primers get turned sideways in my 650. It seems to happen about 3/1000 times in my 650. Go to push up... and .. ahh heck. (Look away to protect the eyes.. push up harder... let down, let out breath). I always just pull that casing out and chuck it aside to deal with later. (Thus, the process can continue, along with the "flow").

I crunched three primers in my last session of 1,000 45ACP, and had one invert itself somehow in the tube (was loaded anvil out, found it when I was boxing up the ammo).

My first bad habit with the Dillon was adding primers and not remembering to flip the thing down and put the follower back in the primer tube. Go to push "up" and get no resistance... ooh, ran out of primers... dangit! Fortunately that's an easy one to solve without it interrupting the process too much (fill primer tube, remove casing, manually index the disk until it's got a primer staged, re-insert case, seat primer, continue).

My experience with the primer system has been pretty positive overall. Very occasionally I crunch one, but not any more than I did with the hand-primer before, and when it happens it is always the result of a relatively poor job of removing a military crimp.

Also, all the primers I have ever used in the 650 are Wolf/Tula. I understand they are a slight bit bigger than other brands, so maybe they have a tighter fit in the disc. I had that one jam (described in the OP) of the shellplate that I think now was the result of a primer not seated quite right in the disk, but if I'd known what was going on at the time it would have been a one second fix.

Getting them "on deck" correctly took a couple trys to figure out when it was brand new. What I do now is throw cases in the case feeder, fill the primer tube, and then click the primer system 6 times. I then turn on the casefeeder, and raise the platform to allow the first case into the sizing station, and when it comes down and indexes, it lines up with the first primer.... just got to know that 6 clicks is the magic number.