ways to make a shotgun "night-functional".

[candewman]

True. But, a well lit target is not exclusive to the weapon mounted light (within the home). Not that Im against weapon mounted lights, but Im willing to bet that people were able to effectively defend their lives/homes long before such lighting systems became vogue.

Sure they did and to a greater extent with the advancement in technology that improves this ability. People got down the road in Model T's as well. You still can today...but.

Using a weapon mounted light can be a good thing, but it does require practice and forethought. Simply having it on the weapon is not enough. If using it "properly," you will turn the light on only as long as necessary...then turn it right back off (all via a remote switch). Otherwise, you are painting yourself as a target. In addition, given that the light is mounted on the weapon, when you have the light trained on someone you are also pointing a loaded weapon at this individual. To go one further, if you are easily "surprised" by what is "caught in the light," you may instictively be prone to firing the weapon. Not a good thing.

If you are surprised by what you see and instinctively fire the weapon, having a light won't make any difference. Training says "Keep your finger off the trigger". It gives you that second to think for one. If anything, the lack of light makes things questionable. Is it a family member? The Dog? A light takes a great deal of that away and this is where training comes in. One advantage the light has is the blinding effect it has on your target, especially an LED model like a G2 or Streamlight Polytac or TLR-1. Does it paint you as a target? Only generally and only if he can see you, which he can't. It paints him a lot more clearly and he'll be more likely to shade or avert his eyes or turn away than try to look at that light. The light can be a great "less then leathal" weapon because you can't hit what you can't see. Can he still shoot blindly? Sure, but it's all about giving you an advantage and the precious seconds you need before the 911 clean up crew arrives

 

[M2 Carbine]

ways to make a shotgun "night-functional".

This works for me. http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/SHT070-1.html

Streamlight TLR-2 laser/light.




In low light or darkness it's almost cheating.

Laser at 21 feet.


Using laser. Shootig from the hip.
#4 Buckshot and 00 Buckshot in chest from 17 yards.
Slugs in butt and small target shot from the hip from 26 yards, using the laser.

 

[inSight-NEO]

Sure they did and to a greater extent with the advancement in technology that improves this ability. People got down the road in Model T's as well. You still can today...but.

Either way, going sans weapon mounted light is not exactly "old school" or primitive. Again, there are other effective means of target identification within the home.

If you are surprised by what you see and instinctively fire the weapon, having a light won't make any difference.

I disagree.

Training says "Keep your finger off the trigger". It gives you that second to think for one. If anything, the lack of light makes things questionable. Is it a family member? The Dog? A light takes a great deal of that away and this is where training comes in. One advantage the light has is the blinding effect it has on your target, especially an LED model like a G2 or Streamlight Polytac or TLR-1. Does it paint you as a target? Only generally and only if he can see you, which he can't. It paints him a lot more clearly and he'll be more likely to shade or avert his eyes or turn away than try to look at that light. The light can be a great "less then leathal" weapon because you can't hit what you can't see. Can he still shoot blindly? Sure, but it's all about giving you an advantage and the precious seconds you need before the 911 clean up crew arrives

I understand what you are saying, but keep in mind that flipping on/off a weapon mounted light in almost complete dark can induce a startle effect without proper training. Whether or not one has their finger on the trigger wont amount to much as it only takes a fraction of a second to go from receiver to trigger. Besides, when you use a weapon mounted light you are forced to aim at whatever you are illuminating. Regardless of what you say, there is an inherent danger in this.

Again, you can certainly "blind" a BG with such a setup, but its also possible to become "startled" yourself and thus fire as a result. Think of it this way; you are driving down a road known for deer crossing.. which would produce a greater "startle" effect (in spite of being aware of the danger); A. Traveling along a fairly well lit road, which could add to peripheral illumination/reaction compensation or B. traveling along a dark road with nothing but your headlights to provide illumination. Basically, unless we are dealing with something truly less than low-light conditions, I just dont think weapon mounted lights are necessary for effective HD.

Also, dont think for a second that all intruders will always become immediately submissive/blinded by such a light without firing in your general direction. And if that light is mere inches in front of your body, well...that makes it a beacon/target, plain and simple. Besides, not all of those idividuals with weapon mounted lights will use such a device effectively.


Again, I have nothing against such lights and have one myself. But, I have chosen to keep it off of my SG due to weight/balance issues. So, as I mentioned before, I now implement many night lights throughout the home and keep a tritium front bead on my shotgun. For me, this works. To me, this is not "archaic."

But, I will say this....I can certainly see the benefits of having a weapon mounted light on a long gun. Still, there are compromises to be considered..as with almost anything else.

 

[scythefwd]

Correct me if I am wrong -- Lee, your experience needed here.

Don't you point a shotgun, not aim it? Now, I don't mean that you fire from the hip, but your mount should be the same every time. You should be pretty sure where it is going to hit without using the sights. It will take a lot of practice, but I am sure that the guys shooting 100 clays a week could do ok without a bead on their guns. I would also suspect that you know your house very well. I know where the creaks are in my floor. I can identify where people / my dogs are by their rustlings/ footsteps. Shouldn't you be able to pretty much hit something in your own house in the dark with a shotgun? I don't shoot my shotgun enough to do it, but it isn't my home defense weapon. My 9mm on the other hand I can hit out to about 20 y without aiming now.

 

[scythefwd]

Can you properly identify the target in the dark? That is perhaps a more important issue than even being able to hit it and a chief reason to have a light IMO. One simple can not engage a target they have not identified.

That would have to depend on your own situation at home. My wife is in the same room, by daughter won't be up and moving around for another couple of years. I'm pretty sure my dogs won't throw a fuss about her, but they will if anyone attempts to enter the house.

insight-

Sure, you can "blind" the BG, but its also possible to become "startled" yourself and thus fire as a result. Think of it this way...you are driving down a road known for deer crossing....which would produce a greater "startle" effect (in spite of being aware of the danger); A. Traveling along a fairly well lit road, which could add to peripheral illumination/reaction compensation or B. traveling along a dark road with nothing but your headlights to provide illumination. Basically, unless we are dealing with something truly less than low-light conditions, I just dont think weapon mounted lights are necessary for effective HD.

I'd be more worried about startling the BG and having him emptying the mag in the direction of the light. I don't have to see what is blinding me to put lead in its direction.

 

[candewman]

If you are surprised by what you see and instinctively fire the weapon, having a light won't make any difference.

That's why I followed up the next sentence with

Training says "Keep your finger off the trigger".

Light or no light, that is the context. Training is the key word.

That would have to depend on your own situation at home. My wife is in the same room, by daughter won't be up and moving around for another couple of years. I'm pretty sure my dogs won't throw a fuss about her, but they will if anyone attempts to enter the house.

Like a firefighter, or a neighbor who gets there before the firemen. And not everyone has a dog or a dog that's worth anything.

I'd be more worried about startling the BG and having him emptying the mag in the direction of the light. I don't have to see what is blinding me to put lead in its direction.

Could happen, true. If he's going to shoot at a light, he's going to shoot at you without a light. When the light is on, you've already got the drop on him because the weapon is pointed in his direction. You aren't walking around the house like a cub scout in the woods with the light on. When that light goes on, and you have a weapon in your hands, you already know what you are going to do. That light gives you an advantage, nothing more. He might shoot in the "direction" of the light, but I am already pointing at the BG, and he's going to try and kill me anyway, right? Training is key here, you have the advantage, no question. Unless he is already pointing it in your direction, at you, when the light goes on, that's the only way training won't overcome, and you didn't have a hope anyway. Personally, since I have the advantage of knowing my own home, I'm not just standing there in the middle of the room. I have cover and I engage from cover. I'm usually at a position of protection when I am scouting anyway. A doorway is usual and convenient, a piece of furniture, a corner of a wall, I have the advantage of knowing my house and where to find cover. I have all the advantages because of training in my own home. A light is just one more advantage.

Sure, you can "blind" the BG, but its also possible to become "startled" yourself and thus fire as a result.

Which is the main reason for having a light and training with it. Keep your finger off the trigger. The key word in all of this, and in most HD situations, is Training. We could go back and forth on our belief systems here, giving examples, what we "think", etc, but training is the key in all advice. If you "think" you will be startled when you flip on a light, either train with it, or train without it. "Startled" is an action that gets reduced or eliminated with experience. After using a light and training with it, I understand the advantage. Anything less than experience is just opinion, opinion changes with experience, not all experience is the same but it comes with training.

 

[scythefwd]

That would have to depend on your own situation at home. My wife is in the same room, by daughter won't be up and moving around for another couple of years. I'm pretty sure my dogs won't throw a fuss about her, but they will if anyone attempts to enter the house.
Like a firefighter, or a neighbor who gets there before the firemen. And not everyone has a dog or a dog that's worth anything.

If my house is on fire, I'll smell it pretty quickly. I live on a single level home where I can see most of the way across the house. In my situation, it will work... ymmv

 

[inSight-NEO]

I'd be more worried about startling the BG and having him emptying the mag in the direction of the light. I don't have to see what is blinding me to put lead in its direction.

This was my point...more or less. Hence my earlier statement:

Also, dont think for a second that all intruders will always become immediately submissive/blinded by such a light without firing in your general direction. And if that light is mere inches in front of your body, well...that makes it a beacon/target, plain and simple. Besides, not all of those idividuals with weapon mounted lights will use such a device effectively.

Light or no light, that is the context. Training is the key word.

Agreed.

After using a light and training with it, I understand the advantage. Anything less than experience is just opinion, opinion changes with experience, not all experience is the same but it comes with training.

Again...agreed. However, I do speak from experience when I say that I have tried a mounted light and have decided the benefits do not outweigh the cost (when mounted on my HD shotgun of choice). This is not simply my opinion...this is, again, my experience.

But, hell...who knows? If I one day come across the ideal light/weapon config, I may go for it. Because, again, I have absolutely nothing against weapon mounted white light systems. Its just that, at this time, I do not deem them as either practical and/or necessary (for me).

 

[Harley Man]

Mainsail... Acft. clamps they hold everything from Hyd. Pneu, Oil lines on aircraft why not gun lights.....Pretty clever. Not pretty, but functional.

Harley Man
Ex F-4 Crew Chief
Viet Nam 70-71

 

[Mainsail]

^^^ LOL, at least you know what they are!