Weapon confiscation?

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bkjeffrey

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Last weekend some friends and I were enjoying a few hours at the local shooting hole. I believe it is just national forest land.
There were a few people out that day that I had not seen there before. But everyone was shooting safe and the conversation was good. That is until I decided to bumpfire my AR15. Within a few seconds two older gentlem approached me in a stern manner. One asked me " is that thing full auto?" I replied no, and told him it was a bumpfire. Well after some discussion the two men revealed that they were local sherrifs, or cops or whatever. Some type of LEO's. They wanted to inspect my weapon. No problem. I put it on safe, dropped the mag and showed clear. I seperated the upper and lower recievers and handed them to the guys for a look. Theres no m16 parts in it, but I dont know if these two even know what to look for.. Then they said that because without an official look at the gun back at the station they couldnt return the gun to me. My buddies and I got a little weary of these two so we started asking for some sort of LEO ID. On guy produced something that looked like a cop id card, but I wasnt sure what it was. He had laid my weapon on the table when he went to retrieve his wallet, so I picked it up, took it to my car, and returned to get my stuff and leave. They got a little upset about that, like I was tampering with evidece or something. We pretty much gave em a big "have a nice day" as we left the range.
My question is, can a LEO confiscate a weapon just like that because he thinks its an illegal weapon. They were in civilian clothes if that makes a difference. Who can confiscate weapons? Under what conditions? What are the rights of a civilian in situations like these?
 
Police don't tend to identify themselves as "whatevers," in some sort of nonchalant way, when ID is requested. Typically, they'll have both a metallic device of some sort in a wallet, or riding in a holder on their belt, and photo ID that identifies their department, name, rank, and badge or registration number.

If they were actually police, and actually armed, and disposed to stop you from leaving until the weapon could be examined by a competent armorer, you could have had quite a donnybrook on your hands. The best thing in such a case is to secure the weapon and contact your state police (or their game-cop equivalent) or park rangers, if on federal land, until things are cleared up.
 
That would certainly have made me quite upset. I'm not sure what I would have done in that situation, but I always say-- no badge = no authority.

I probably would have called 911 as well to reporting suspicious activity.

If they were truly interested in checking you out, there would be Feds at your door right now.
 
I'd need to see a real, genuine LEO ID, and then I'd call whatever local LE agency and get their confirmation that the people in question are legit before letting them lay a finger on my weapon.

They sure as heck aren't going to take one of my rifles into custody like those two wanted to do with you. I bet they probably weren't LEOs, too. Especially that they didn't try to hard to stop you on your way out. Sounds fishy. Real fishy.
 
well, you got away with walking off...apparently they can't, or couldn't in that particular situation. They probably couldnt do anything anyway because they were off-duty (an ID card instead of a badge? C'mon...)

you could have just let the guy fire a few shots to show that it wasnt tampered into being full-auto, then tell him a bit what bump-firing is; that would have cleared you no doubt unless he was either an idiot or trying to get himself a free AR. Either way, if they dont show some sort of badge, then assume that they dont have authority and request that either an on-duty LEO shows up to clear things up or just tell him to shove it and leave you alone until one does show up

from what my next-door neighbor said (he's a cop), they either inspect the weapon for a selector switch and/or test-fire it. If it is select-fire, they ask for paperwork; if it is tampered, or you dont have the paperwork, they take it AND you down to the station, and contact the ATF. Whatever the case, its usually not worth it to bump-fire around strangers because of that exact reason. I'd suggest only doing something like that in when no one is around if you just HAVE to do it
 
Yea, everything you guys said were my thoughts pretty much. No badge to show, no effort to detain, no authority in my eyes. No shirt no shoes no service. I should have just called the local PD right there. Thats why we basically told them to "have a fine day" and left.
Just to let yall know, Im not a bump fire bandit. My buddies just get a kick out of it every once in a while.
--"You were a lot nicer to fake cops than I would have been."-- Funny.
 
You made the smart choice, IMHO.Sounds to me like 2 guys were hopeing to scam a free AR off of you (regardless whether they were in fact real LEO or not).Had you turned it over, I'd bet a lot of $$$ that would have been the last you EVER saw of it, again, whether they were real cops or not.
 
And as a side note and this coming from a leo:
Should a leo seize a weapon or anything else for that matter, ask for a reciept and it should be on a something with a letterhead.
Don't feel comfortable with a person who claims he/she is a plainsclothes officer. Ask them to radio for a marked unit.
Like others have said, I think you were about to be ripped off.
 
Until they show me a real badge, uniform or cop car they can pound sand.

And even then if I don't like how they act, I'd ask for them to call a uniformed officer.

There is no way I'd ever let them take my gun unless I was under arrest, or they gave me official proof and receipt for my weapon.

The time I was approached by a cop while out shooting, the guy was totally cool. In fact he didn't even have a visible gun on him. Just a sheriff's car.

He just wanted to see what we were shooting and to tell us we couldn't shoot into the dried creek bed bottom we were shooting in.

Then said have a nice day and drove off. We packed up and as we were leaving he circled by to check to make sure we were heading out. :rolleyes:


Seriously sounds like you were about to be ripped off.
 
It sounds like imposters looking for a free AR.

If they had been cops and did suspect an automatic weapon, they had your (or your buddy's) license plate. I'd think you would have been stopped on the way home.

He showed some kind of ID? You should have written down the name and checked them out with the local PD.
 
I can't believe you actually surrendered the weapon. As most of your respondants have already said W/out positive I.D. I would have felt no obligation to comply
 
Not sure I'd have given up the weapon. But if I had, it would have gotten very ugly had I found myself in a situation where they couldn't produce sufficient ID and tired to LEAVE with possession of my gun. No choice but to call 911 and "hold" them there. I'll explain to a judge later. Checking them out after the fact is NOT an option.


-T.
 
Calling for a uniformed officer is the best option. Most citizens wouldn't know what a real badge or PD ID looks like anyway. Heck I know many local LEOs but still wouldn't be able to identify all their dept badges and IDs let alone any Feds.
 
Whoa guys. If they were real LEO, it doesn't matter whether they were "on" or "off-duty". If they saw something they thought was illegal it was their duty to investigate.

I agree that by their actions and in-actions and lack of proper ID, these "cops" were probably fake and my reaction would have been to tell them to stand by while I call the local authorities.
 
Yup, sounds fishy.

If they persisted (which they didn't) in detaining you or confiscating, then politely offer to cooperate fully when YOU get a Sheriff there on YOUR terms (to wit: YOU call 911, inquire about alleged officers detaining you, and ask for an obviously official unit to come). Nobody touches nothin' 'till then (you DON'T want an imposter "testing" your AR on you).

But that's been said above.

What hasn't been said:

If you know it's a semi, you DO NOT want it going to the BATFE for testing for full-auto capability. The test WILL come back positive, and then you're in for a world of hurt. They know how to make any semi-auto "double" (gunking things up, breaking things, using super-rare ultra-sensitive primers, repeat a thousand times, etc.), they have unlimited resources to do so, and have no interest in confirming your story. 10 years, $25,000 (or is it $250,000?) fine, life's over as you know it. Yes, they've done it before and they'll do it again.
 
If they were real cops, and you walked away like that, you'd been on the ground doing the jitter-jitter-shake-shake while they cuffed you.

Around here we call 'em "Whackers".
The ones with lights and cb antennas on their crown victorias that want to be something they ain't?
Whackers.

I was throwing snowballs at the stopsign (30 years ago) and a guy walked up and showed me his security guard badge and said he'd take me to juvenile court for snowballing cars.
Whackers.

Question Authority.
 
Yep...wackers is what they're called. Lots of videos on youtube of them doing "their thing" (not talking about volunteer FD or EMS with their "courtesy" lighting)

The last thing I would have done in your situation was UNLOAD the gun and hand it to them. Though when I'm at outdoor ranges in the forest on the other side of the state I always have a OC'd loaded pistol on my hip, regardless of what I'm shooting at the time, after reading a story here on THR about a guy who had two guys ask to "see" his gun, and after the guy unloaded it and handed it over, said "what if we didn't give this back?" and the guy then pulled a snub and pointed it at them. They gave him his other gun right back and left ;)
 
My question is, can a LEO confiscate a weapon just like that because he thinks its an illegal weapon.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, the answer in most states would be a qualified yes. You need to stand firm on your rights from the beginning. You made an enormous mistake in agreeing to let the person inspect the firearm. By letting them look at it you likely waived any right to object if they think they found something or want to do more tests.

As a general rule, don't let strangers inspect your firearms. That should be pretty obvious.

Also knock off the bump firing in front of mixed company. That should also be pretty obvious. I like to shoot down spruce trees with my Mosin but I don't try that at a range with strangers.
 
Good point novaDAK. I always do carry my Glock 26 concealed no matter where Im shooting for that EXACT reason. I had it on me then as well.
 
Sounds like a couple of phonies to me. A genuine LEO would have identified him/herself to start with and would have had badge and picture ID in their pocket not in their car.

If I had suspected someone had an illegal full auto weapon a function check would determine that at the scene. I don't think most LEOs would know how to do this.

I don't think it would have been wise to "hold them" as someone else suggested but definitely would have taken down description and tag number and called the local police or sheriff. I would have followed up with signing a complaint if they weren't LEOs.
 
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