Weapon Systems, Diversifying & Training?

[BerettaNut92]

I really wanted to take a precision rifle class this weekend. Then I got to thinking, as fun as it would have been, when am I ever going to need to call upon those skills as a necessity? I carry a pistol or two and can see me using a pistol, edged weapon or my paws in dee-fense (and a shotgun at home), but precision rifle seems to me (civilian, suburban, computer guy, carries a gun, has a shotgun in the closet) to be more of a niche skill.

I also want to take a karambit class with Steve Tarani next week. But I'm not sure if I really want to carry a karambit--I don't know if it's just another edged weapon, or if it's yet another weapon system I'm going to have to dedicate time to--right now I dedicate myself to pistol, a little edged weapons, a little hand to hand and a little shotgun, banjo, photography, church stuff, computer geek certifications, trying to do a little reading, etc. Of course, I could carry a karambit and leave a precision rifle around the house to wait for a problem for a solution, but I already have a folding knife and a carbine.

Have you ever caught yourself taking classes and buying stuff for the 'gee whiz' factor? On one hand, maybe a karambit class and precision rifle class will give me insight to things I've never thought about with your average edged weapon or carbine, or I could take the ~$600 ($150 training knife, $200 knife and $250 class) and do more shotgun and some advanced handgun classes.

Your thoughts?

 

[Jeff White]

Skunk,

There are only 24 hours in a day and so much money on one's bank account. No one, the Army, your local PD, or even Starfleet Command has the resources to train for every possible contingency. You have to devote your limited resources to preparing for those scenarios you are likely to encounter. Believe me the professional warriors have to make decisions on what to train on based on budget, time and other resources. Don't feel bad about not having enough time or money to do it all. There is much you can learn from a precision rifle course that will be applicable to the other types of shooting you do. I don't think there is such a thing as too much trigger time.

Steve demonstrated the karambit for us during Pat Roger's carbine course. It looked very effective and I was impressed by what it was capable of. That said, I'd adopt it as my only edged weapon due to the time I have available to train. Tell Steve hi for me if you take the class.

It's up to you to decide how to spend your resources. I have always believed to old adage about watching out for the man with only one gun...he probably knows how to use it.

Jeff

 

[BerettaNut92]

It's up to you to decide how to spend your resources. I have always believed to old adage about watching out for the man with only one gun...he probably knows how to use it.

What about El Tejon?

I thought about standardizing on the karambit as well...my only concern is looking eeeeevil in court with that eeeeevil AzN sickle thing. But of course my Emerson Commander looks pretty eeeevil....am I overthinking by worrying about having to defend the use of a karambit in court?

Otherwise I'm gonna jump in and perhaps, train with that as my primary edged weapon like you do....in your experience, does much of the karambit and traditional knife stuff overlap?

 

[Jeff White]

Skunk,
I was impressed with the karambit, but have yet to aquire and train with one. It is much more vesatile then any folder you could carry as a fighter. The booklet suggests it works well as a garden tool, but I don't think I'd use one for that. I'd still want to carry another blade for utility use (opening packages etc.).

I think the old "how things look in court arguement is an old wives tale. I have yet to hear of a criminal case where it was verified that the choice of weapon was a deciding factor in a use of force case where everything else was on the up and up.

Jeff

 

[sanchezero]

I'm kinda in the same boat you are, Skunk. Only I actually went to the LRR class, actually a fieldcraft-and-all sniper class. It was great; one of the best classes I've ever taken, but to what use

I'll never (I sure as hell hope) crawl hundreds of yards to shoot someone so far away I can't see 'em without aid. Still, I'm very tempted to go back for the rest of the class, useless as it is, expensive as it would be.

Really, the only skills I may feasibly use are CQPistol stuff and HTH skills and I never thought I'd even buy a rifle much less take sniper and combative carbine classes .

It's addictive and I need help...

 

[C.R.Sam]

Amongst other uses...
Your mind is the weapon.

Cogitate.

No skilled craftsmen are equally skilled in all tools.

Sam

 

[dave3006]

Skunk, don't discount the carbine. It may sound far fetched now. However, in California, we are only one earthquake or politically incorrect beating away from anarchy. The Rodney King riots are still fresh in my mind. Next time, I don't think the bad guys will be so stupid as to trash their own neighborhood. Your carbine will be your best friend.

It may seem odd now. However, reality can change very fast.

 

[El Tejon]

Skunk, it has always made sense to me to train in the weapon that you will have the most. I well remember reading a gun rag article, er, a friend gave it to me, where the author went to the SIG Academy for a sniper class but then decided to take a CCW class as he carried a gun everyday but had NOT received ANY pistol training!!!

Later on as one branches out, you realize, as Sam I Am states, that you become the weapon, the firearm (pistol, shotgun, rifle, machine pistol), knife, staff, dao, bamboo leaf sword, etc. is only a tool. Many of the skills begin to overlap.

There's nothing wrong with going to a "high speed, low drag" sniper class. It's still your money no matter what Grayout Davis sez. You will learn a lot and many skills will carry over to other fields. However, if resources are at issue, IME, I would stick with pistol training first.

 

[Soap]

Later on as one branches out, you realize, as Sam I Am states, that you become the weapon, the firearm (pistol, shotgun, rifle, machine pistol), knife, staff, dao, bamboo leaf sword, etc. is only a tool. Many of the skills begin to overlap.

This is very true. In fact, it seems as though I don't really worry about specific weaponry at all anymore. I don't have anywhere near the amount of training as some people around here, so I'm sure this will become even more true in the future.

 

[EricO]

Skunk, I think you'd be better served by taking more advanced handgun classes and hand to hand defensive classes. These skills will be needed far more than the others. That said, however, if you have a spare room filling with cash...

About the karambit: Would this need to be a folding version for the state of CA? If the karambit were a fixed version, then one could only carry it in open carry to be legal, correct? Your carry permit is for your handgun, and doesn't cover other weapons such as some states do (I believe FL?). If you were to carry it in neck carry, wouldn't this be illegal in CA? I'm getting confused regarding knife laws in this darn state. Help me out here Skunk.

EricO

 

[BerettaNut92]

EricO, Karambits come in fixed and folding varieties. Some of the fixed like the Striders have double edges, and I'm not sure if I can carry one, even if it's openly carried. The folders like Emersons are AOK.

The Karambit class is the same for both folders and fixed, AFAIK, even if the knives are a little different.

I have to check on the laws, the knife carry laws are better in some ways than other states, worse in others.

 

[atek3]

I think dave3006 is right, I'd devote some of my resources to being ready for any SHTF scenario that might come up. That said, I'd train with a 308 battle rifle and be skilled enough to hit man size targets at 500 hundred meters before spending hard earned $ on a 'sniper' class. Given the fact you live in a quasi-urban area you could probably get away with a .223 carbine, even though it lacks the barrier penetration (car doors, safety windows, etc.) of a .308.

atek3

:tinfoil beanie on:
PS You might dismiss the SHTF idea is incredibly unlikely, but the current economic status of this country is very fragile right now. If all the holders of US dollars abroad think our US dollar is going to lose quite a bit of its value (which it will), and sell dollars for swiss francs, pounds, euros, and gold, our dollar could plummet in value causing serious inflation at home. Then Americans realize the dollars they are holding are losing value rapidly so they try and stock up, further driving up prices. To get more greenbacks they all try to pull their money from their bank accounts, causing a series of massive runs (you didn't think the FDIC actually had the resources to back up all the insured deposits in this country did you? ). This precipitates bank failures, home foreclosures, we have Weimar Germany 1923 all over again. Then the fun in the cities begins. When the safeway runs out of 50 dollar bread loaves and people start to get hungry. All I can say is, have guns, have gold, have food, water, and warm clothing. Make sure you are out of debt.
:tinfoil beanie off:

 

[hso]

I'd think the most practicle progression would be:
H2H - Knife/Club - Handgun - Carbine/Shotgun - Battle Rifle - Long Range Rifle in order of most likely/catastrophic antisocial encounter. If you were a western hunter you may want the long range rifle to move up closer to the front of the line. Given lots of time and money for training this question would be more one of schedule than priorities

 

[Balog]

atek3:
Sounds like somebody's been reading Rawle's "Patriots". I love that book.
However, I'd rather have silver than gold should the feces ever contact the oscillating device. What would you barter it for? Maybe a horse or weapon, but for the smaller things silver would be more useful IMHO.

 

[atek3]

funny thing is I read patriots a couple of years ago and gave it a "ya, whatever", but things economically speaking are WAY more dangerous than they were in 2001. But I think he is generally correct about hyperinflation preceding societal chaos.

atek3

 

[MolonLabe416]

I was lucky to be able to take a Steve Tarani Knife 101-type class a few years ago. This was not a Karambit class, but Steve did a Karambit demonstration. I was the training dummy. The things Steve can do with a Karambit are incredible. And very, very scary. It would take a life time of practice to attain his skill of course, but I think the knife has merit, even with just a 3 day Karambit specific class from Steve and daily practice.

One of the drills he did on the training dummy (me) was to hook me in the eye socket (simulated of course) to get me off-balance, cut my throat, disembowel me, take off the family jewels, severe the Achilles tendon, ending up with me on the ground. It took way less time for him to do it than it takes for you to read this.

When we were done I rejoined my sparing partner. I remarked that I felt like I was going to throw up, my partner remarked "hell, I'm a surgeon, and I fell like I'm going to throw up." I'm really glad Steve is on our side.

If you have an opportunity to train with Steve, karambit or regular knife, jump on it. It's a very physical course, I came away with two cracked ribs and loss the nails on both big toes. This was NOT Steve's fault. My sparing partner and I agreed to very rough rules to get the most out of the training. Even given the injury, it was one of the best classes I've had and would take it again given the opportunity.

You can do a google to get his website and training dates. He also works at Gunsite on occassion and with Randy Cain. Both have websites. If you have a chance to do one of the Cain/Tarani classes hosted down at Southern Exposure (half-way between Tampa and Orlando FL), I'd recommend it highly.

 

[ShaiVong]

I came away with two cracked ribs and loss the nails on both big toes.

Was that during the "Wail on your partner with a 2x4 then drop a bowling ball on his feet" drill?