Cut / Don't cut

[mercop]

Recently while teaching a class full of people who had taken several firearms and edged weapons courses I asked who had done some sort of shoot / don’t shoot training during a course? Everyone raised their hand, then I asked of those that had attended edged weapon training who had done any cut / don’t cut training? No hands were in the air.

For many people being armed with a knife is their primary deadly force option. In addition to that many people carry an edged weapon as back up deadly force option to supplement a pistol. No matter what category you fall into, have you consider under what circumstances you would use your knife in self-defense. Since a knife is a contact distance weapon it necessitates that you be within arms distance of your attacker. What actions would likely causes you to draw your knife before there is physical contact? If you are already in physical contact, have you trained to get your knife out while your attacker is trying to stop you from doing so? We teach that the knife is used to cut an attacker off or you.

There are few things to consider when using a knife for self-defense. The first is that the attacker is going to be attacking you at conversation distance. Do you train to defend block/evade/misdirect fists, edged weapons and impact weapons with your reaction side hand while using your knife, or do you concentrate on just getting your cut in?

If someone who carries a pistol goes to the range and all they do is shoot cardboard targets on command without having to ever justify their use of force, what would be the likely outcome if they are involved in a shooting? This is the same as training to draw a knife and cut without ever considering situations that would justify it.

Choosing, carrying and using tools are the easy part. Knowing when and how to deploy them is hard, but the justification of use is the rub.

 

[Hungry Seagull]

I dont know, all I see is a blade fighting distance is inside someone's circle as defined by that person's reach, feet stance distance. If I can get inside that circle and ahead of the target's mental Boyd Loop of decision making I have it all with a knife.

Unfortunately knife versus knife, both are going to get cut bad, this aint Hollywood. And I think first strike to a vital part wins. Sometimes Phyrric victory sometimes both die.

Handguns increase my thinking from arms reach to that of about 3 steps away or .. 12 feet or so if Im lucky to get that much room to make a draw/nodraw decision.

Swords? Bleah. Just a much bigger knife and sometimes not easily controlled by those who fail to learn, train and use it properly.

They say dont bring a knife to a gunfight and they say those who draws first might win but first shot on target between two guns will win.

In reality no one wins. It's messy, legally draining and ... a waste all around.

Having said that... I have been lucky to "Hit and scoot" or at least evade and screw up the attacker long enough to get away. If that makes me a coward so be it. However it's necessary to retain all of my mind and body for my work which is pretty important at the time. If those medicines or Meats/produce dont get to where they need to go, there is going to be a *&^% fit.

Sometimes you greet someone in a really dangerous area who is approaching you expecting a cigerette handout (Or assembling a ruse to hold your attention while a partner blind sides you) and you are evaluating this person and wondering if you are going to have to kill him or defend yourself against getting hurt bad or killed.

It's best not to stop or even be in some of these areas at all. That is my two cents.

 

[Grey_Mana]

A well-written take at:
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/knifelies.html

 

[Hk Dan]

Gabe Suarez refers to the guy reaching for a sidearm against a guy reaching for a knife as "bringing a gun to a knife fight".

In his class with Marc Denny, the gun-armed guy dies hideously EVERY TIME that he tries to go for the gun before solving the knife problem. These guys were Marines, SWAT cops, and Special Forces people, and not one of them survived the exercise.

They say 85% of handgun GSW victims survive their wound, while 65% of knife wounds survive.

A knife is deadly WELL outside of arm's reach.

I encourage you to watch "Die Less Often" by Suarez and Denny. For me, it was a game-changer. I'm not and won't be a knife guy, but that DVD put the danger in perspective for me.

Dan

 

[mercop]

I agree, we evidence this over and over with people from every imaginable background.- George

 

[Atticum]

hey Grey Mana--- thanks for sharing that link. It was an interesting read.

Interestingly enough it shares a LOT of similarities with http://www.corneredcat.com/ and I consider that a good thing.

Here's an exerpt from the author's thoughts on "expect to get cut" and why a "fighting" mentality is not good:

This is what really results from trying to extend a "fighting mindset" into weapons combat. It simply just does not work. Would you like to hear our philosophy on this subject?

Trade a cut for a kill, but nothing else.

That's the difference between fighting and combat.

Here is another cornedcat-like idea:

If you ask any experienced LEO, corrections officer or mental ward orderly which they would rather face, a person who wants to fight them, or someone who will climb over them to escape, to a man they will tell you the former.

 

[Hungry Seagull]

Now the Climbing over part I understand. Trading a cut for a kill I understand too. HOWEVER....

You can inflict a bad injury that is quite disabling and costly to the attacker with a well placed knife. Back home in Baltimore we used to laugh when would be aggressor gets stabbed down low and is issued a bag to eliminate body waste at trauma for the rest of his life.

No need for killing with knife. Just cut em bad and make em remember it each day for thier life.

Killing? Best left to guns, it's pretty black and white then. Once bullet leaves, it's not coming back.

 

[soullight]

knives

Great post by Mercop. He is on the money one hundred percent We have done scenario training and the knife guy, me, killed everybody in the room. One guy got a shot at me running at him but was dismayed when I told him he might have bought it. He did not know that a running opponent with a knife will likely stick up just by falling momentum if one does not sidestep and get out of the way. Mercop's post also brings up another subject. the gun people do not train to deal with the knife guy before they draw the gun or as they draw the gun. There are also knife guys who train every bit as much as the gun guys. I've seen prison convicts training daily. this must be kept in mind. Great post.