Weapons Purchases And NICS Delays

[Wesson Smith]

If this is a redundant thread, or belongs in another forum,
my apologies. Memo to Matt, Larry or Justin: please move
or delete at your discretion.

I'm friggin' steamed! Being in a generous spirit over
the holidays (both to myself and others) I purchased
several firearms, one 1911 .45 and two long guns. The
three transactions were made within a two week timeframe.
The first purchase (the 1911) made it through the NICS applicaton
process no problemo - "proceed". As for the other two long guns,
I am sitting on "delay" for both - one purchased on New Years Eve
day, and one yesterday.

I just don't understand the seemingly capricious nature of the process.
I have no criminal record whatsoever. I hold a CCW in the state of Ohio.
Ninety percent of my purchases since the passing of the Brady Bill
have been made through the same dealer. During that period, I have been
subjected "delay" status three times to-date, yet have experienced at least
eight immediate "proceed" scenarios.

There seems to be no rhyme nor reason to it all! Why am I approved
in the majority of instances, yet delayed in a few others? I'm pissed,
and my dealer is as well. He notes a current uptick trend in transfer delays,
and is concerned that if it continues that it will hurt his business.
As for myself, it kind of makes me wonder just exactly what is going on
"behind the scenes", so to speak. Is it possible that I'm just the victim
of inept automated beauracracy run amok? Or is there more to it?

Experiences and/or thoughts on this from other THR members would
be greatly appreciated.

W.S.

 

[News Shooter]

I work in a gun store, which I note does NOT make me an expert. The delays that I see usually have to do with a common name. Is your last name Smith?
Sometimes with a name like Smith or Jones or Johnson there are so many changes and updates to the system they get hung up. Almost all are resolved.

The other question I would have is whether or not you used your SS # on the form. It usually cuts through the junk.

 

[Chipperman]

I have never been delayed. I never put my SSN on the Form. My name is not particularly common, though.

Are the delays possibly b/c of understaffing at certain times?

 

[arflattop]

I have purchased eight firearms, both pistols and longguns, through the same dealer in 2007. Six of these purchases were in the last half of the year. I include my SSN on the form and have not had any delays.

 

[Wesson Smith]

News Shooter

My full name, including middle name is not very common at all.

And yes, I provided my SSN, as I trust my dealer implicitly.

 

[Ed Ames]

You are probably on some watch lists because your name is associated with known terror groups (ever been a Sierra Club member?) and your aprovability varies depending on how active those groups are at the moment.

LOL... I think....


Does having a CCW allow you to the bypass NICS check in Ohio? It does in some states but I'm not sure how universal that is.

 

[Macmac]

I worked that gun store counter too, I have been persoanlly delayed to the point where I got the gun and STILL the check had not been completed.

The state of Mass got lazy in my case and so I put a wavier in with NH where I live and I have never been delayed since.

The NICS check takes into account any state where ever you lived and also made a purchase.

Over the holidays I might well guess "staff" was limited, and or was hung over, so feeling lazy.

In any case either the check will be finished and you will hear from the dealer, OR the check will never be finished, in which case you will still hear from the dealer, and you will get the guns.

If you wanted to, you can stop this non-sence and ask for the waiver, which then in the future cuts any and all states except the one you live in. The bad part is they keep better records.

I felt as though I had little to fear and did that. I enjoy cutting the Soviet Replublic of Mass right out of my life when it concerns guns anyway.

I have no fear of NH, in this life time either.

In case there are those who believe the year make and modle of any purchase is kept, well it is but by your dealer and not NICS.

NICS asks for the name, the address, and long gun, hand gun and pistol. A pistol to them is semi auto, the hand gun is a wheel gun, and a long gun is a rifle or a shot gun. That's all they ask for and all they get.

It amounts to they might know you bought a gun either long or short, know who you are and where you live.

Being Denide is all the dealer hears... NICS does not tell him why. SO unless you are a x con I wouldn't have any worries about getting your guns.

In my time almost no one was denide with the real intent of being denide forever. I did have one guy who had a problem under medical, and I am not certain exactly what that was, but after finding another dealer just by chance it seems that customer tried to buy a gun with just one bullet.

More or less that is hearsay, but I would not be inclined to sell a gun to a guy who wants just one bullet myself.

 

[jr45]

I have been having delays recently here in Virginia. I purchase 4 firearms from Nov-Dec 07 and was delayed on 3 of them. I have a very uncommon name, supply my ss#, have a ccw, and even have a 03/C&R FFL. Strange

 

[Cosmoline]

I just don't understand the seemingly capricious nature of the process.

 

[Jim K]

The main reason for NICS delays, especially around the holidays, is the same reason for delays in on-line shopping sites, department stores, etc. - too many people wanting service at one time, and too few people to provide that service.

Having a common name, or one close to or the same as a convicted felon is also a problem. Sometimes the difference is noted quickly and the sale is OKd, at other times and with other personnel it is not.

Not much consolation for a late Christmas gift, but I don't think anyone is "out to get you."

(No, the Sierra Club is not on any "watch list.")

Jim

 

[Wesson Smith]

Ed -

I'm not sure about NICS exemption for CCW in Ohio. My dealer knows I have
a license to carry, so I just assumed he would have mentioned it. I'll have
to do some research.

Cos -

I'm LMAO!

Jim -

I try not to immerse myself in conspiracy theory.
Just wish that I didn't have to put up with this s**t, regardless of the source or cause.

 

[NGIB]

I've bought 6-7 handguns in the past few months with no delays at all. I do put my SSN on the form though as it doesn't bother me to do so. I'll be glad when my CCW arrives as it allows me to bypass NICS here in Georgia...

 

[Kimber1911_06238]

HAHA Cosmoline, I think that your picture is probably pretty accurate.

I've purchased guns without a delay, and I've also been delayed....both times giving my SS#. Doesn't make any sense. My name isn't super common, but it isn't unusual. Who cares, my SS# is unique, what gives?

 

[Wesson Smith]

No exemption for CCW licensees in Ohio. That's what I figured.
Guess I need to move to Georgia.

 

[Navy_Guns]

Been there, done that...

I got delayed all of the time (1-4 hours on average) and finally got fed up. I contacted the kind folks that run the NICS system and asked them what was up. I have a Virginia CCW and a DoD clearance, no record...

They sent me information on the "Voluntary Appeal File" which MAY help you with delays. Sometimes your NICS can get delayed because a live human being has to look up some piece of information for whatever reason. Maybe your name, DOB, SSN, whatever triggers a "flag" because it is the same or similar to somebody on the "bad guy" list - who knows? Anyway, somebody has to do a little further digging to make sure you aren't a genuine bad guy and that causes the delay. Turns out they have 24 hours to destroy all records of the check and whatever they had to look into in order to process your approval. So, next time you do a NICS you get another delay for them to look up the same information, again...

What the VAF file does is allows them to maintain your information on file for as long as you wish (you can have them remove you at any time) so your delays are minimized or avoided all together. If you call or e-mail them, they'll send you an application form and a fingerprint card. You should be able to get your prints done at your local LEO. Send it in and in a couple weeks (I was surprised how quick it went) you should receive a letter with your UPIN (Unique Personal Identification Number). Next time you do a NICS, you tell the clerk your VAF UPIN to include on the form.

When I bought my son a Rossi "matched set" .22 LR / .243 / .410 combo before Christmas my NICS was approved on the spot with no delays (yay!)...

If you need more information you can call NICS at 1-877-444-6427 or you can send an e-mail request for a VAF packet to [email protected] and they'll get one out to you.

If you are a die hard conspiracy theorist and don't think "Big Brother" should be keeping records on you, well, I can't help you there... They probably already know everything about you from their Brain Wave Scanning satellites.

 

[romma]

I think the NICS people should reimburse my gas to the tune of 110 miles for driving there an extra trip 55 miles each way when I get delayed.

It's happened.

Not to mention my wasted time!

 

[Ed Ames]

Jim, how would you know about the Sierra Club's status? The only people who could possibly know aren't allowed to say.

Look at the "no fly" list... on 9/11/2001 the FBI had a list of 16 people on their "no fly" list. Sixteen.

The TSA, as of November 2005, reported that 30,000 people had complained that they were denied permission to board an aircraft because their name was on a "no fly" list. Thirty thousand.

Current estimates -- and they are ONLY estimates, the information is kept secret -- are that there are 700,000 names on that terror watch list.

How do you go from sixteen to seven hundred thousand without casting a rather broad net?

Now... the Sierra Club has known ties to terror organizations including Greenpeace and in 2003 they elected Paul Watson, a known eco terrorist, to their board of directors. Seems pretty clear to me that Sierra Club members are supporting terrorism and deserve extra scruitiny. Maybe they are actively involved, maybe they are just dupes, but they need to be watched for our safety and the safety of our children.

Now... is this "Wesson Smith" character a member of the Sierra Club? I don't know. I do know that there are thousands of organizations like the Sierra Club. They support and foster terrorism as a means of affecting political change. Those people -- every last one -- must be hunted down and killed to preserve our American Way of Life.

 

[jr45]

Navy Guns,
Thanks for info on the "Voluntary Appeal File"...I didn't think about that. I too possess a DoD clearance and don't understand why these delays started to occur. I will look into obtaining a VAF.

 

[DaveBeal]

I do know that there are thousands of organizations like the Sierra Club. They support and foster terrorism as a means of affecting political change. Those people -- every last one -- must be hunted down and killed to preserve our American Way of Life.

You're suggesting the murder of Sierra Club members? These kinds of statements don't do much to improve the image of gun owners among the general public, to put it mildly.

 

[Macmac]

Wesson Smith. As working from the other side of the counter in NH USa no such questions are asked as to wether or not the customer has a CCW.

You are thinking as if you are talking with a person as you talk with other persons. This call is much more like talking to a digital answering machine. The person on the other end is more like a robot than any kind of human.

They do not chat about the weather, mention anyones kids or grand kids, nothing other than what is on that paper. The dealer is only asked what is on tha paper. The NICS folks only ask what the dealer see's you wrote on that paper, and for all the life of me it seems like you are telling a machine.

If in Ohio that paper asks if the customer has a CCW, then maybe the dealer did mention it. There is no such question in NH, and since it is a fedral form, I have some doubts that any Ohio Paper differs at all from the same in NH.

Letters and words are most often spoken in military dialect for years of birth and any other numbers related to your address.

In my mind I see gray people eatting from a tube looking a lot like tooth paste. They sit in a govt gray room, with gray illumiation, and all wear gray suits. For all I know they get paid in gray money and live in a gray world. Sure seems like it to me.

 

[Ed Ames]

Dave... it's only murder if private citizens do it. That's why we need to repeal the posse comitatus act and get some elite special forces working on the problem. What use is it having a green delta beret force if you can only use them to kill foreigners?

Oh, and the first post was part joke (hence the LOL) and part serious (asking if Ohio required NICS w/ CCW since not all states do) ... but I have a nasty tendency to go along with Menander (a long dead greek) who said, "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." It's not the kindest behavior because it tends to make people who lack a sense of humor the butt of at least one more joke. But, the way I look at it, if you can't recognize humor with an obvious cue like "LOL" maybe you should be the butt of another joke.

 

[30 cal slob]

i've been delayed several times. invariably on the weekends when no live people are staffing NICS.

i've been told by my ffl that you basically get two "approvals" per month, and if a live person isn't around to process more than that, you get temporarily denied.

 

[Gator]

I get delayed every time. And I don't see how providing my SSN would help, the process (at least here in Illinois) is automated and there is no way for my dealer to put my SSN into the system.

 

[DENALI]

Hey W&S I feel your pain, but you do know that it's called a buearacracy!

 

[Geezer59]

Five purchases in the last six months, no SSN provided, no delay. All thru the same dealer here in town. I thought the last transfer had been delayed, and was chatting with another customer on items of mutual interest. Asked the dealer about the transfer after about an hour, he said it had gone thru in about three minutes. I just hadn't been paying attention...