Wear on 9mm pistols using standard pressure, +P, and +P+

[peacebutready]

Good Day,

In 9mm, a +P round will cause faster wear in a given firearm than a standard pressure round. A +P+ round will cause even faster wear than the previous two. Any idea how much these more powerful rounds increase wear of a given gun?

Generalities regarding pistols in general would be better but if specific guns are needed for examples, lets consider the CZ 75, Beretta 92 or M9, and either the Glock 17 or 19.

One possible way to answer would be to say something like: A +P accelerates wear 1.5 times as fast as standard pressure rounds and +P+ accelerates wear 2 times as fast as standard pressure. Alternatively, this would mean 2 rounds of +P wear a pistol as much as 3 rounds of standard pressure.

Cheers

 

[JohnKSa]

It's really recoil that wears the gun, not so much the pressure level.

I don't believe it is possible to come up with any sort of rule of thumb for how much faster wear progresses with +P vs. standard pressure. There are too many variables involved. I suspect that it's possible that a standard pressure loading with a lot of recoil might could wear out a pistol faster than a +P loading designed to minimize recoil.

 

[5-SHOTS]

I think is more like: +P accelerate wear 5 times faster than standard loads (assuming the same bullet weight of the standard loads and the stock recoil spring on the pistol); +P+ accelerate wear 10 times faster (again same conditions). It's all about slide to frame battering; if you want to shoot +P or +P+ continuosly, I think it's a good idea to change the recoil spring.

 

[Thompsoncustom]

It's really recoil that wears the gun, not so much the pressure level.

What he said. Just because a round is +P+ doesn't mean it's going to wear the gun any faster it's more a concern of slide velocity and how much hard it batters the gun.

I bought a Hi point C9 and used it to test things just like your question and as long as I had it all I feed it was +p and above ammo some in the 60k psi range and I can't say it wore any fast at all.

 

[19-3Ben]

Considering that there is no standard for +P+, i don't think there's a way to answer the question.

+P+ means that it exceeds +P SAAMI standards, but doesn't give an upper limit. It might exceed it by 1 PSI, it might exceed by 5,000 PSI and either way, it is +P+.

There is really no answer to the question since not all +P+ is the same pressure, not all bullet weights are the same etc... so recoil, pressure, and heat characteristics will be different.

 

[TestPilot]

It depends on a specific load.

Some "+P" really isn't.

 

[JohnBiltz]

Most 9mms; Glock, Sig, Beretta for example are built to fire 9mm NATO loadings which in the USA would be considered a +P loading. Keep up on replacing the RSA and they are going to last a long time.

 

[CajunBass]

I wish I had a chance to shoot a gun, most any gun, enough to worry about wearing it out.

I'd brag about it.

 

[B!ngo]

Yes, this (below).
But you have to add the factor of the actual gun in question. If it's one of these mini CCW guns designed to minimize weight and mass to ease of carry and concealment, I am sure the wear and tear for a constant amount of +P+ rounds will be greater than, say my H&K USP full size or a Sig 226. Lots of steel, more massive slide with strong or two recoil springs, etc.
But my take is if you can wear out your handgun because you shot too many rounds with too much power, you get to go to the front of the line for a new one. Just don't worry about it.
B

I wish I had a chance to shoot a gun, most any gun, enough to worry about wearing it out.

I'd brag about it.

 

[peacebutready]

Most 9mms; Glock, Sig, Beretta for example are built to fire 9mm NATO loadings which in the USA would be considered a +P loading. Keep up on replacing the RSA and they are going to last a long time.

My RSAs are always maintained.

I thought the NATO loads (like our Winchester NATO) are between standard and +P.

 

[peacebutready]

But my take is if you can wear out your handgun because you shot too many rounds with too much power, you get to go to the front of the line for a new one. Just don't worry about it.
B

Good point. I wonder if that would include Kimber and Para, though.

 

[CDW4ME]

Glock 26/19 is also available as Glock 33/32 (357 Sig) uses the same recoil spring assembly.
Sure, 9mm +p and 357 Sig might put more wear on a pistol than standard 9mm.
How much & how quick?
Seems it would be hard to quantify; what about other factors like rate of fire, rounds fired per session and maintenance.
I have a 357 Sig and shoot +p out of my 9mm, performance > maximum longevity.

 

[hatt]

If you can afford enough +P/+P+ ammo to wear out a quality modern 9mm you can easily afford to buy a new gun every once in a while. Another non issue people worry about too much. The number of non .gov folks that shoot enough to wear out guns is tiny.

 

[Sam1911]

The number of non .gov folks that shoot enough to wear out guns is tiny.

Indeed! And the number of .gov type folks who do is even tinier!

Not an issue worth worrying about.

 

[hardluk1]

Wow . You worry to much. Buy , shoot. Just besure you buy a pistols that +P rated. Learn to reload and make some nice mild loads to practice with then shoot enough hot stuff to be comfortable and now how it they work. I CC kahrs, They are full no +P pistols. I practice with a 124gr bullet that's 85% of what a carry. I shoot about 2 mags of the +P ever two weeks along with a 50 rounds of practice ammo. Clean out your mags and reload with new +P.

 

[fastbolt]

In the armorer classes for various makes/models of pistols that I've attended, they generally just tell armorers (if the use of good quality +P/+P+ is recommended) to look for signs of increased wear, damage, breakage, etc during periodic inspections, and that the interval for inspections when higher pressure loads are used might need to be more frequent.

I've listened to folks from 3 of the different major gun companies make suggestions regarding some specific issues that might develop for which to be aware, and listened to other armorers relate similar experiences.

If any given gun maker states that +P or +P+ 9mm loads can be used in their guns, I'd still exercise caution in the selection of the ammo I intended to use. The major gun companies who have worked hard to develop +P & +P+ loads for LE/Gov use have often developed a track record of how their ammo works in different guns commonly used in LE/Gov. They're in a better position to know what they've tried, and what accelerated wear & tear it might cause in their guns.

Also, bear in mind that while there's an industry standard for 9mm +P, meaning an upper pressure limit, the use of the designation +P+ pretty much only tells you that it exceeds the industry standard for +P, but it doesn't tell you by how much, let alone what the pressure might actually be for any particular load.

Remember when LE agencies were asked by some of the ammo companies if the higher pressure loads were bought?

BTW, my experiences as a firearms instructor & armorer has given me more than my fair share of opportunity to observe how the variable "maintenance practices" of individual owners & issued users of various guns seems to have more of an arguable adverse effect upon the expected service-lives of many firearms.