Weirdest autoloaders...
- Thread starter Greg Bell
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BluesBear
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So many people complain because they make toy pistols that look too real.
Then they come along with that HK that looks like a toy.
Then they come along with that HK that looks like a toy.
extremefishin00
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- Jan 11, 2003
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Where did that HK come from? I don't think I've ever heard of a UCP, it's not even on the Hkpro website.
Chris
Chris
Longbow
Member
H&K 4.8x30
Uh oh! Looks like H&K copied Glock!
Uh oh! Looks like H&K copied Glock!
Longbow
Member
It's ugly!
Mike Irwin said:
IIRC, the Mars pistols were designed by a fairly well-to-do guy by the name of Gabbet-Fairfax. He paid Birmingham gunsmiths to file them out individually to his specs. 'Twarnt no company, really. The concept foundered when military orders were not forthcoming, IIRC. One hell of a cartridge on paper, it foreshadowed the 44 Magnum/357 Magnum, etc., by about 30 - 50 years. Cheers!
IIRC, the Mars pistols were designed by a fairly well-to-do guy by the name of Gabbet-Fairfax. He paid Birmingham gunsmiths to file them out individually to his specs. 'Twarnt no company, really. The concept foundered when military orders were not forthcoming, IIRC. One hell of a cartridge on paper, it foreshadowed the 44 Magnum/357 Magnum, etc., by about 30 - 50 years. Cheers!
Mike Irwin
Member
Not just A cartridge, but a whole series of cartridges -- I believe 4 or 5 separate ones.
Nightcrawler
Member
Anybody got any pictures of these MARS guns? What kind of cartridges did they use?
The only place I've ever seen the Mars is in Textbook of Automatic Pistols, by Wilson, an Englishman. It was written in the 1930s and was out of print but I think they've reprinted it recently. I have an old copy. There was .45, .360, 9mm Mars and maybe a couple others. Some of the cartridges IIRC were only on the drawing board and never saw light of day. The .45 was supposed to be highly unpleasant to shoot, according to reports.
He was a little bit like Charles Newton, who built some rifles and had plans for a bunch more calibers but they never came to pass.
He was a little bit like Charles Newton, who built some rifles and had plans for a bunch more calibers but they never came to pass.
Hi, Gewehr98,
Actually, the Steyr-Hahn (Steyr Hammer model, as opposed to the Roth-Steyr) was a pretty well designed gun and was used by both the Austro-Hungarian empire and Chile, maybe others. As you know, it loads from the top down with stripper clips, but is fairly fast to load, and very accurate. The Germans converted a bunch to 9x19 and issued them to rear units.
IMHO, one of the places JMB missed the boat was in not following up his own rotating barrel design. Obregon used the system on his semi-copy of the 1911, and I think the rotating barrel works better and is more accurate than the dropping barrel and link system. Its only drawback is that the slide is bulkier than the 1911 slide.
For another weird one, the aforementioned Roth-Steyr is pretty odd for a pistol that was issued in fairly large numbers.
Jim
Actually, the Steyr-Hahn (Steyr Hammer model, as opposed to the Roth-Steyr) was a pretty well designed gun and was used by both the Austro-Hungarian empire and Chile, maybe others. As you know, it loads from the top down with stripper clips, but is fairly fast to load, and very accurate. The Germans converted a bunch to 9x19 and issued them to rear units.
IMHO, one of the places JMB missed the boat was in not following up his own rotating barrel design. Obregon used the system on his semi-copy of the 1911, and I think the rotating barrel works better and is more accurate than the dropping barrel and link system. Its only drawback is that the slide is bulkier than the 1911 slide.
For another weird one, the aforementioned Roth-Steyr is pretty odd for a pistol that was issued in fairly large numbers.
Jim
Out of curiousity, I looked up the Mars last nite in "Textbook of Automatic Pistols." I was going to copy the text verbatim for you but it turned out to be around 6 or 7 pp of small print. Basically, what I remembered was true; there was a .360/9mm and a 45 in both long and short persuasions. The 360/9mm put a 156 gr projo out at a scorching 1,650 fps and the 45 long was 220 @ 1,200 fps. This was before 1906, mind you!
The Mars was based on patents filed betw 1895 and 1905 and worked on the long recoil principle similar to the Frommer STOP with some differences. The locking was with a breechbolt with four symetrically opposed locking lugs 90 degrees apart. The bbl recoiled three inches, then moved forward 1/4 inch w/ the bolt and stopped again. This allowed the hammer which was cocked 15 deg past full cock to bear down on the tail of a carrier which had grasped the next ctg and pulled it backwards out of the mag during the recoil stroke. Whereupon the bbl returned forward under the influence of its return springs and allowing the carrier to rise from underneath. All the foregoing took place in the instant of firing and that is where the automatic action stopped until the trigger was released which tripped the bolt to go forward, chamber the next round and prepare for the next shot.
The Mars were made individually by Birmingham gunsmiths and had the fit and finish of best grade British shotguns of the day, in other words, impeccable. Names like Holland & Holland, Purdey, and Westley Richards spring to mind. There was also a 8.5mm Mars listed but Wilson had never seen one nor was able to find a catalog. Even back in the '30s he couldn't determine a price since they had never been commercially marketed to any extent. He did state that the 360 was singularly unpleasant to shoot. About 3X as powerful as Colt's Super 38, methinks.
The Mars was based on patents filed betw 1895 and 1905 and worked on the long recoil principle similar to the Frommer STOP with some differences. The locking was with a breechbolt with four symetrically opposed locking lugs 90 degrees apart. The bbl recoiled three inches, then moved forward 1/4 inch w/ the bolt and stopped again. This allowed the hammer which was cocked 15 deg past full cock to bear down on the tail of a carrier which had grasped the next ctg and pulled it backwards out of the mag during the recoil stroke. Whereupon the bbl returned forward under the influence of its return springs and allowing the carrier to rise from underneath. All the foregoing took place in the instant of firing and that is where the automatic action stopped until the trigger was released which tripped the bolt to go forward, chamber the next round and prepare for the next shot.
The Mars were made individually by Birmingham gunsmiths and had the fit and finish of best grade British shotguns of the day, in other words, impeccable. Names like Holland & Holland, Purdey, and Westley Richards spring to mind. There was also a 8.5mm Mars listed but Wilson had never seen one nor was able to find a catalog. Even back in the '30s he couldn't determine a price since they had never been commercially marketed to any extent. He did state that the 360 was singularly unpleasant to shoot. About 3X as powerful as Colt's Super 38, methinks.
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Gary in Pennsylvania
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- Dec 19, 2003
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I've GOTTA see a pic! 
Suomipoika
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A pistol that was desingned to shoot under water. I don't remember its name now, but H&K has made a prtotype ans some Russian firm.
ssteven1
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Joe Demko
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