rellascout
member
Are they Micarta?
Is the P7 all it's been cracked up to be?
- Thread starter mike4guns
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How many rounds can you fire before the pistol become hot enough to be unpleasant? I have never seen one in person... love accurate pistols though.... would hate to buy one on line and then discover I was one of the folks that didn't "bond well" with it...
benderx4
Member
Rellascout: Yes they are Micarta, check this guy out, he does great work:
http://www.grips4u.net/index.php?cPath=43_67
2ndWind: For me it gets unpleasant after about 50 rounds rapid fire. The heat shield of the M8 and M13 give you about another 30-50 before your finger starts to fry.
http://www.grips4u.net/index.php?cPath=43_67
2ndWind: For me it gets unpleasant after about 50 rounds rapid fire. The heat shield of the M8 and M13 give you about another 30-50 before your finger starts to fry.
I fire 100-150 rounds a session with my P7 and it doesn't get hot enough to burn my finger. It does get hot enough that I let it cool before I put it back in its Kydex holster though. It depends largely on your rate of fire. I have 5 mags and normally between shooting and loading it doesn't get so hot I can't shoot.
ozarkhillbilly
Member
If nobody has spoken for the mags, I will buy them for a fair price. That said, I would keep them if I was you.
Keep the mags!
They are a bit hard to find now and that will be even worse by the time you pass the gun down to your son. Personally, I'd be PO'd if my Dad gave me a gun with only one mag, especially if he told me he sold the extras years ago!
Hang onto the mags. Your son will thank you. And, if you decide you have to sell the gun sometime before then, it will bring more with the extra mags.
They are a bit hard to find now and that will be even worse by the time you pass the gun down to your son. Personally, I'd be PO'd if my Dad gave me a gun with only one mag, especially if he told me he sold the extras years ago!
Hang onto the mags. Your son will thank you. And, if you decide you have to sell the gun sometime before then, it will bring more with the extra mags.
earlthegoat2
Member
It is an OK gun I guess.....
See sig line...
See sig line...
The accuracy seems to come partly from the squeeze needed to operate the cocker being just what Rex Applegate calls a 'convulsive squeeze'.
When the NJ State police bought P7s, management congratulated themselves because now criminals who grabbed trooper's gun would no longer know how to operate them. Sure enough, when the first criminal grabbed a state trooper's guny he stood there vainly trying to fire in. When the first trooper tried to shoot a criminal, he stood there vainly trying to fire the gun. That ended the NJSP's love affair with the H&K P7.
Sorry I don't have references for this annecdote, I read it years ago.
When the NJ State police bought P7s, management congratulated themselves because now criminals who grabbed trooper's gun would no longer know how to operate them. Sure enough, when the first criminal grabbed a state trooper's guny he stood there vainly trying to fire in. When the first trooper tried to shoot a criminal, he stood there vainly trying to fire the gun. That ended the NJSP's love affair with the H&K P7.
Sorry I don't have references for this annecdote, I read it years ago.
demusn1979
Member
My plum,
Great gun.
Great gun.
TimboKhan
Member
Uh, generally this is exactly WHY I fire the gun
usp9
Member
Not exactly. The NJSP carried the HKs for 18 years...not an indication of discontent if you ask me.
oneounceload
member
Actually, the way I had heard the story was that the perp couldn't figure out the gun after taking it off a NJSP and the LEO was able to subdue the perp......
Great gun, shoots better than I can - one I will keep no matter what
Great gun, shoots better than I can - one I will keep no matter what
"Is the P7 all it's been cracked up to be?"
No.
Reliable, accurate pistols, but still a single-stack 9mm, that is not nearly as compact as people claim, as it is quite tall from butt to rear sight, and the rear of the slide protrudes, complicating concealment. There is not much for a holster to grip, and the center of balance is in the grip area, so the holster must be really SNUG, or the pistol will want to fall out. If the weapon is squeeze-cocked, and the grip then relaxed, it de-cocks with an amazingly loud sound. This can be mitigated by slightly retracting the slide, then decocking while letting the slide down gently, but there are sounds associated with those actions.
I owned a couple of them in the mid-1980's, and carried them on duty for a while, in a then-mandated flap holster. When my PD went to an open-top security holster for revolvers, I reverted to using a sixgun on duty, rather than keep using a flap holster. I had to sell the P7s during a lean time. I would not trade my present duty/carry P229 pistols for anything, and certainly not P7s.
Perhaps, if I become a collector of 20th-Century autopistols, I might get another for that reason.
No.
Reliable, accurate pistols, but still a single-stack 9mm, that is not nearly as compact as people claim, as it is quite tall from butt to rear sight, and the rear of the slide protrudes, complicating concealment. There is not much for a holster to grip, and the center of balance is in the grip area, so the holster must be really SNUG, or the pistol will want to fall out. If the weapon is squeeze-cocked, and the grip then relaxed, it de-cocks with an amazingly loud sound. This can be mitigated by slightly retracting the slide, then decocking while letting the slide down gently, but there are sounds associated with those actions.
I owned a couple of them in the mid-1980's, and carried them on duty for a while, in a then-mandated flap holster. When my PD went to an open-top security holster for revolvers, I reverted to using a sixgun on duty, rather than keep using a flap holster. I had to sell the P7s during a lean time. I would not trade my present duty/carry P229 pistols for anything, and certainly not P7s.
Perhaps, if I become a collector of 20th-Century autopistols, I might get another for that reason.
gc70
Member
For a gun with a full-size barrel (4-1/8") and full-size grips, I find the P7 to be surprisingly compact.
Sig P225/P6 versus HK P7
Sig P239 and HK USPc versus HK P7
earlthegoat2
Member
I guess I will respond to Rexter's comments:
First of all there is a low percentage in the gun community who have first hand experience with the P7. They can only go on what they hear. (I know you are NOT one of them Rexter) If they hear the vocal minority, which are the P7 fans, then they will get this idea in their head that it is one heck of a pistol. There are many trade offs associated with its advantages, some of which Rexter has touched on.
It is a standard weight service pistol with a standard sized grip and a standard sized barrel. However all of this is put into a relatively compact package. The grip still prints in concealment but this is no different from a Gov't of Commander 1911. The rear of the slide does not protrude any further than that of a Glock. (of course I have never found Glocks to be particulary concealable either so be your own judge) The gun is thin which also contributes to its single stack magazine that holds 8 rounds of 9mm for a max load of 9 rounds when carried fully loaded. For a 9mm of this size that is very few rounds.
The squeeze cocker is a great idea I think. It takes into play something you should already be doing before you pull the trigger on a pistol and that is to squeeze the grip. I think the noise it makes when uncocking it is also a non issue. I dont know if I am going to be sneaking around anywhere with the gun squeezed/cocked. I will cock/squeeze when I am about to fire or just keep my booger hook off the trigger. I dont know why there should be any learning curve to this very simple manual of arms. Accuracy is very good becuase of the fixed barrel and the very good , high visibility, and factory zeroed sights.
They heat buildup thing is a non issue in defensive shooting. It is a big issue in range practice though. The thing gets hot and takes a second to cool down. You will need to bring 2 guns with you to the range.
First of all there is a low percentage in the gun community who have first hand experience with the P7. They can only go on what they hear. (I know you are NOT one of them Rexter) If they hear the vocal minority, which are the P7 fans, then they will get this idea in their head that it is one heck of a pistol. There are many trade offs associated with its advantages, some of which Rexter has touched on.
It is a standard weight service pistol with a standard sized grip and a standard sized barrel. However all of this is put into a relatively compact package. The grip still prints in concealment but this is no different from a Gov't of Commander 1911. The rear of the slide does not protrude any further than that of a Glock. (of course I have never found Glocks to be particulary concealable either so be your own judge) The gun is thin which also contributes to its single stack magazine that holds 8 rounds of 9mm for a max load of 9 rounds when carried fully loaded. For a 9mm of this size that is very few rounds.
The squeeze cocker is a great idea I think. It takes into play something you should already be doing before you pull the trigger on a pistol and that is to squeeze the grip. I think the noise it makes when uncocking it is also a non issue. I dont know if I am going to be sneaking around anywhere with the gun squeezed/cocked. I will cock/squeeze when I am about to fire or just keep my booger hook off the trigger. I dont know why there should be any learning curve to this very simple manual of arms. Accuracy is very good becuase of the fixed barrel and the very good , high visibility, and factory zeroed sights.
They heat buildup thing is a non issue in defensive shooting. It is a big issue in range practice though. The thing gets hot and takes a second to cool down. You will need to bring 2 guns with you to the range.
I had no trouble hiding its length or height; it was the outside rear corner of the slide that bulged/printed. I actually wished for more length, so that when holstered, it would be more stable. I also wished it balanced more toward the barrel, than the grip area. The P7 is indeed a mechanical marvel, getting that much barrel into such a compact frame. But, it is compact in the dimension that, to me, does not need to be compact. I like 5" 1911 pistols, and carried them on duty later, and also for CC on my own time.
For a 1980's German police officer, the P7 was a great step forward. When I had to use a flap duty holster, it was good for me, too. (Not sure if West German police used flap holsters then.) When my agency went with a better duty rig for sixguns, I considered the modern rig with a sixgun better than an autopistol in a slow 19th-Century holster.
Had it not been a financial necessity to sell them, I might still have my P7s, but I would still likely be using the P229s I am using now, which fit me better, balance better, and handle better, for me. Others prefer different fit, balance, and handling, andf that is great. FWIW, back in the 1980's, SIGs were quite the sensation themselves, with their frame-mounted decocking system and precision engineering/manufacturing. SIG and HK were both big prestige pistols back then.
For a 1980's German police officer, the P7 was a great step forward. When I had to use a flap duty holster, it was good for me, too. (Not sure if West German police used flap holsters then.) When my agency went with a better duty rig for sixguns, I considered the modern rig with a sixgun better than an autopistol in a slow 19th-Century holster.
Had it not been a financial necessity to sell them, I might still have my P7s, but I would still likely be using the P229s I am using now, which fit me better, balance better, and handle better, for me. Others prefer different fit, balance, and handling, andf that is great. FWIW, back in the 1980's, SIGs were quite the sensation themselves, with their frame-mounted decocking system and precision engineering/manufacturing. SIG and HK were both big prestige pistols back then.
A large part of the equation when carrying the P7 is holster selection. It has a very small profile inside the pants/holster compared to similarly sized guns. The sqeeze cocker also limits how deeply you will want it in the waistband. Today I carried my P7 in a Comptac MTAC. Wow, perfect holster for the P7. As far as the size of the M&P it is almost exactly the same size as my M&P with the extended mag but it is a little thinner. It no harder to conceal than my M&P and actually the slimness of it helps it to tuck in to my side a little better than the M&P. The weapon is small yet it gives you full grip. I like it a LOT but I understand it isn't for everyone.
I owned about five P7's over about a two year period. This included a couple pretty well used M8's, a like new M8, and a used PSP.
The weird thing was the more I handled and shot the P7, the more I realized it wasn't the gun for me.
The pistol never pointed right for me. It always pointed low and it took me longer to get my first shot on target then with other pistols. The gun was very accurate for me, but only out to about 10 yards or so. Past that I struggled with it.
I finally realized it wasn't for me when I shot it side by side with my Makarov and, in my hands, my $200 Makarov outshoot my $1,000 P7M8.
My wife liked the P7 at first. She found it very accurate. But, the more she worked with it, the more shortcomings she found. She could shoot it with both hands just fine. She could cock it and shoot it with her strong hand only, but just barely. She could NOT cock and shoot it with just her support hand though. That was the deal breaker.
They are neat guns and I understand why some people love 'em. For me though there were other, better, choices.
The weird thing was the more I handled and shot the P7, the more I realized it wasn't the gun for me.
The pistol never pointed right for me. It always pointed low and it took me longer to get my first shot on target then with other pistols. The gun was very accurate for me, but only out to about 10 yards or so. Past that I struggled with it.
I finally realized it wasn't for me when I shot it side by side with my Makarov and, in my hands, my $200 Makarov outshoot my $1,000 P7M8.
My wife liked the P7 at first. She found it very accurate. But, the more she worked with it, the more shortcomings she found. She could shoot it with both hands just fine. She could cock it and shoot it with her strong hand only, but just barely. She could NOT cock and shoot it with just her support hand though. That was the deal breaker.
They are neat guns and I understand why some people love 'em. For me though there were other, better, choices.
Of all these interesting , informative and reasonable deductions i sort of think my experience with the p7 mirrors the above post the most (Trebor).
It's very accurate but after using a 239 and a g27 for bu for soooo long , there is just no replacing them. My primary(s) which i go back and forth due to climate conditions and clothing variables are a g30 and a p220 carry elite.
Sorry but there is just no replacing these two weapons.
The p7 is an amazing and unusual firearm which i'm glad to add to my small collection. I just never see having the need for 4 mags. I tend to lean towards collecting fine firearms not the magazines. Although it's only a plus to have extra of something they don't make anymore ,for the p7 ,one mag (maybe two) is the only way i see it. I think 60. ea. is a steal. The more i think of it the more i think the mags are worth more. I'm not in a "must sell" position anyway.
Thanks for all the great info about this gun. Some really smart points were expressed about the p7 here.
It's very accurate but after using a 239 and a g27 for bu for soooo long , there is just no replacing them. My primary(s) which i go back and forth due to climate conditions and clothing variables are a g30 and a p220 carry elite.
Sorry but there is just no replacing these two weapons.
The p7 is an amazing and unusual firearm which i'm glad to add to my small collection. I just never see having the need for 4 mags. I tend to lean towards collecting fine firearms not the magazines. Although it's only a plus to have extra of something they don't make anymore ,for the p7 ,one mag (maybe two) is the only way i see it. I think 60. ea. is a steal. The more i think of it the more i think the mags are worth more. I'm not in a "must sell" position anyway.
Thanks for all the great info about this gun. Some really smart points were expressed about the p7 here.
PX15
Member
FWIW:
I bought three "A" grade Lower Saxony Police imports from CDNN last year. Of the three one was absolutely NIB, and the other two had probably been test fired, but looked new. Had I not the NIB to compare them to I'd have thought the others were also new.
One had a black slide, one had a light plum tint, one a more pronounced plum tint. The NIB had the slight plum tint.
I sold one late last year to pay for a new P2000sk (V3), and when it came time to decide which to keep and which to sell I sold the one with the black slide.
I am of the opinion that the "plum" tint on the slide is a "plus" (for me), not a "negative".
YMMV..
Best Wishes,
Jesse
P.S. Here's a photo of the one that came NIB (both sides), and I use as my casual plinker, and part time cc choice in 9MM.. The 2nd photo shows the other P7 I kept, with the more pronounced tint to the slide.. The 4th photo is of my favorite P7, and the new P2000sk V3 I bought (paid for partially) with the money I got from selling the black slide P7.
I bought three "A" grade Lower Saxony Police imports from CDNN last year. Of the three one was absolutely NIB, and the other two had probably been test fired, but looked new. Had I not the NIB to compare them to I'd have thought the others were also new.
One had a black slide, one had a light plum tint, one a more pronounced plum tint. The NIB had the slight plum tint.
I sold one late last year to pay for a new P2000sk (V3), and when it came time to decide which to keep and which to sell I sold the one with the black slide.
I am of the opinion that the "plum" tint on the slide is a "plus" (for me), not a "negative".
YMMV..
Best Wishes,
Jesse
P.S. Here's a photo of the one that came NIB (both sides), and I use as my casual plinker, and part time cc choice in 9MM.. The 2nd photo shows the other P7 I kept, with the more pronounced tint to the slide.. The 4th photo is of my favorite P7, and the new P2000sk V3 I bought (paid for partially) with the money I got from selling the black slide P7.
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