Anyone else give up on autoloaders?

[Bob79]

I just don't have very much faith in any auto-loaders due to my personal experience with them, and their poor reliability. Before I get told/asked what I was doing wrong, I have been shooting handguns for approx 7 years, and know how to properly maintain a handgun. Some malfunctioned more than others, especially the smaller or "pocket autos". I've fired or owned: Beretta 92F, Cougar, Tomcat: H&K USP: Sig P220: Kahr PM9: Seecamp: Kel-Tec P-3AT, P-32. The worst of the above was the Sig, Kahr, and Kel-Tecs. I do currently have a new Glock 23, which has approx 200-250 malfunction free rounds through it (knock on wood), and I have to own a auto-loader for work.

I currently own many more revolvers, and have owned others that I have sold. A good guess would be that I have fired some 3,000-4,000 rounds from autoloaders, and about 2,500 rounds from revolvers. I have only had one misfire from a revolver and that time the round was bad, so I just squeezed the trigger again, and it went bang. The SIG alone probably had about 10+ jams, the Cougar was at least 15+, and the Kel-Tecs I had lost count. The misfires in the other guns were much less, but each and every autoloader I've tried had at least 2 or 3 jams, and I usually put at least 200-300 rounds through every gun I've owned.

I know other people have had great success with autoloaders, but I just can't warm up to them. I've even had range personnel watch me several times, and I've never been told I'm doing something wrong like limp-wristing. I have had great success with S&W revolvers (and some Ruger too) and will only buy revolvers from now on. Its funny because semi-autos are more popular with almost everyone I know, even though I'm under 30, I just prefer the "outdated" wheelgun, especially 5-shot J-frames.

 

[scbair]

As an avid wheelgunner, "Nope!" I have NOT given up on semis. I think each has its place. As a pocket gun, I'm happiest with a snubnosed revolver. My 642 laughs at lint (and so does my NAA mini .22 WMR)!!

While I was once restricted to a revolver as a duty sidearm (and still have the slickest li'l Model 19 Combat Magnum ya ever saw!), I prefer either a 1911 or a BHP for "serious" carry. I can hit faster with either of these than with any revolver; If firing in very low light, I find .45 ACP and 9x19 ammo has lower muzzle flash, and these two pistols point more consistently and better (in my hands) than any revolver I've yet tried.

 

[mec]

What you are lacking is:
1. Blind Luck;
2. The gift that many autopistol users have for instantly, totally forgetting malfunctions right after they occur.
Ive given up on autopistols many times but currently have several colts in the various full sized 1911 varities. Once you get the extractor tensioned right, they have a strong tendency to be reliable with ball ammunition and carefully done reloads. I stick with those types of ammunition and stay with magazines from Colt, Metalform and The Wilson combats with the detachable floor plates.

 

[torpid]

I also got spooked a while back by a bad run of luck with semiautos and pump shotguns, and went with a nice straightforward wheelgun and a SxS shotgun for awhile.

But in my case, it was using a large variety of range pistols that were always pretty dirty that was the issue (the pump shotgun issue is all my fault, but it's a loading error that can totally jam up the action which occasionally occurs during hurried stress loading that still inspires me to rely on the simplicity of the coach gun).

Long story short, I prefer as many shots available as I can get, and though I like my snubby, I always feel like "I'm out?!!!" when I shoot it empty. So I got another semiauto and since I am very clean with my guns, and like to keep them well lubed where they like it (and dry where they don't) and it's not had a single jam and is pushing 1k rounds (a Taurus Mil Pro .45 to boot).

Since then I've had a range Kimber and Sig jam on me like crazy the last time I tried new range guns (dirty again). But my pal's Sig 229 runs like clockwork.

So cleanliness was the key issue in my personal "spooky semiautos" experiences. I'm not sure why you kept having a run of bad luck, but hey- revolvers are great! (I just like more capacity.)

.

 

[C-grunt]

Sometimes you will get a lemon gun, whether it be an auto or a wheelgun. My friend bought a Springfield XD that couldnt hit the broad side of a barn from inside, but instead of sending it back, he gave up on it and sold it for half the price he bought it for. Just because you have had some bad pistols, doesnt mean you should give up on all pistols.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Cruise this site long enough and you'll see hundreds of revolver stoppages discussed -- "The transfer bar broke on my XXXX," "I fired two rounds from my ZZZZ and it locked up tight."

Quality guns well-maintained are reliable, regardless of method of operation. Small autopistols are, in my opinion, to be avoided because of the geometry issue -- the shorter the barrel, the steeper angle for a locked breech auto to unlock. Personally, I've carried and used both autos and revolvers and my preference is the M1911.

 

[wally]

No revolver will go half the number of rounds an autoloader will before needing a cleaning to repair fouling induced failures. In the field, it takes very little mud to stop a revolver which is a large reason why the worlds militaries have switched many years ago.

Add to the fact revolvers are generally harder to clean than an autoloader and I've pretty much given up on revolvers, although I do carry my SC-360 .357 J-Frame probably 45% of the time because it hides the best for a lot of the clothes I wear.

--wally.

 

[Ala Dan]

Bad Semi-Auto's?

Surprised too see SIG's, Springfield XD's, and Kahr's on this list~!

In the early days of Seecamp's operations, I can understand them being
there; but improvements have been made. Kel-Tec's on the other hand,
or a "Hit or Miss" on QC; more so with the .32 caliber weapons than the
.380's.

BTW, No I haven't given up on auto loaders either. My Les Baer Thunder
Ranch 1911, Springer 1911's, Springer XD .45ACP, and 2x SIG's (P220A
and P228), and Seecamp LWS-32 have been 100% reliable; with all
types of ammo, including JHP's.

 

[PX15]

Nope..

Guess I'm just "lucky" but I have a couple of pistols that "so far" have been 100% reliable.

My Sig P239 (purchased new approximately 10+ years ago) has never burped.. It is always reliable and exceedingly accurate.. (More so than my old fart eyes, which is why it sports a set of Crimson Trace Lasergrips).


My S&W 3913 was purchased just before the Sig, and while it has not had the numbers and variety of ammo run thur it at this point it is still 100% reliable.



I'll admit I've had a pile of pistols that were not aways 100% reliable, but the two above have been perfect so far.

I would trust either one of them without reservation when it comes to reliability or accuracy..

Maybe I got the only 2 good ones?

Best Wishes,

J. Pomeroy

 

[Red Tornado]

Don't give up on all autoloaders completely until you've tried a Makarov. These modern things may fail, but when you get a Mak to fail, let us know how.
RT

 

[AJAX22]

revolvers are nice and they are fun to shoot,

but I still like my autos for putting alot of firepower downrange. I can get 100 rounds off on target with my 1911 in 38 super in the same time I can get maby 36 off with my s&w 10.

I think youre problem with autos may be from straying from J.M. Browning Designs.

colt .32 or .380 pocket pistols just flat out work, never had a jam, NEVER and I've had two of them a 1943 and a 1903.

cheap ammo, shoebox ammo from garage sales, you name it I've shot it and they just don't FTF.

larger autos can be a little pickey about what they eat, some hollow points will stove pipe 1 in 100 or so in my 1911, but thats because of the feed ramp that I use, and with mild hollowpoints, winchester silvertips, or ball ammo it just works great.
And stovepipes can be cleared by racking the slide.

get an old browning design in good shape (not some high tech copy, but the real deal) try it out and then get back to us. Wheel guns are great, but don't write off a class of guns without trying the best of em.

 

[sm]

Nope.

Then again I feel NO firearm is a magic talisman. Be it revolver, semi-auto, single shot handgun...extends to rifles and shotguns no matter the make, model platform, caliber, guage.

For CCW, and serious:

I personally made MY preferences based on testing and gun fit too many years ago. These include OLDER 1911s, K frames for the most part.

I really mean it when I suggest folks buy the new offerings and trade in old stuff...I and others like me are selfish and want the older guns.

I hear the XD in a 9 works...get one of them...less money than a Sig, and you don't get dragged into Glock bashing.

P series always seemed to work...in both 9 and 45.

I don't do .40cal never have - never will.

Then again I would just as soon tote a 12 ga pump with slugs - if'n I could find a IWB that would work out...

 

[Backfired]

Well, I haven't sold any of my pistols but I don't have confidence in their reliability. It seems there are two types of pistol owners - those who have unreliable pistols and those who lie about their pistol's reliability. My S&Ws and Ruger revolvers are waaay more dependable than my Colt & Ruger pistols.

 

[Car Knocker]

It seems there are two types of pistol owners - those who have unreliable pistols and those who lie about their pistol's reliability.

The pistol I carry is utterly unreliable. I guess that makes me a liar according to you.

Your thought processes are faulty and deficient.

 

[Bob79]

Ajax

What are the "Browning" designed pistols that you recommend?

Thanks.

 

[mec]

One of the things I do from time to time is qualify with both revolver and auto pistol. I show up with one revolver and two autos just in case.

 

[torpid]

It seems there are two types of pistol owners - those who have unreliable pistols and those who lie about their pistol's reliability.

It seems like this is an incredible overgeneralization.

 

[MCgunner]

I'm quite sorry, but no lies, the autos I've kept for defense are of the flawless function category. I do keep 'em clean and lubed and I do rotate magazines with regularity. They do require more attention in my experience. I have owned jammamatics. I was able to make all, but one function eventually. The one was a Beretta .22 short jetfire. I gave up on that one and sold it. I have a Kel Tec and two P series Rugers, that haven't jammed on anything I've tried in them. I have a Grendel P12 .380 ACP that is flawless with what it likes. The only ammo that's burped in it is Winchester's white box flat nose TMJ with the exposed lead flat tip. It will hang once in a while on the feed ramp and require a bump at the back of the slide. With carry ammo, no problems at all. .22 rimfire is very iffy and I would never carry .22 for anything serious and especially in an autoloader.

I love my revolvers, but I have to admit MY autos are just as reliable. Revolvers have advantages, of course. They don't have to worry about feeding, so can shoot any profile bullet. If you get a dud primer, you just pull the trigger and a fresh round is under the hammer, no tap/rack/bang. But, how often does that happen with good ammo, like never?

I own more revolvers than autos because I like revolvers, but I can't say I prefer 'em for defense. I like that little Kel Tec P11 in my pocket, thousands and thousands of trouble free rounds through that thing, not a problem. And, when I need a reload, if I need a reload (11 rounds), I don't have to fumble with speed loaders.

I've owned two 1911s, one of which would NOT function with any, but ball. The other would function with round nose 220 grain lead bullets or a 200 grain SWC I cast, but some short hollow points of the 180 to 200 grain variety were a no go. 1911s seem to be more choosy about ammo than my Rugers. My P90 will feed anything, even an empty case, I've tried it! It is so reliable it's scary. I trust it like I do a good .357 K frame. Weird thing, too, that P90 shoots about any bullet I've fed it acceptably. Some are down right target accurate, all are combat accurate. And, all the loads I've fired in it seem to shoot very close to, if not at POA. It is the most un-picky handgun far as load goes that I've ever seen. A soft ball load will jam it with the spring I've got in it, but I don't have it set up for bullseye. I shoot standard to combat power loads in it.

Autos take more attention and more understanding of the workings of the gun than do revolvers. I do think revolvers are best for the non-gun person or new shooter.

 

[George Hill]

Well, I guess it's true... you can't limp wrist a Revolver.





Teasing ya.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Well, I guess it's true... you can't limp wrist a Revolver.

Well, you can. But if you do it with one of my .45 Colt loads, you'll wind up with the front sight embedded in your skull.

 

[critrxdoc]

I too like revolvers, but 6 just is not enough for me. I had a S&W 9mm that was pretty reliable, but I may have forgotten some of the stoves as you alluded too. I noticed there were no glocks in your list, and that is why I have abonded auto except for glocks. I was fortunate to like the glocks, and be able to shoot them exceedingly well. I know that there are auto's that are reliable but you are taking your chances. I know guys and have heard about a lot of folks that spend $1500 on a Kimber only to send it back, and back, and back.

I have a G-17 that I have about 3000 rounds with no hiccups, and a G-20 with about 500 rounds flawlessly. The only time I have got the G-20 to jam is when I am cheating and using it to shoot 40s that are too short. I certainly cannot blame you for wanting to resort the wheelie.

 

[10-Ring]

To each his own...
I was primarily a semi auto guy for A LONG time. When I finally learned to shoot DA properly, I developed an appreciation for a nice wheelgun. I'm still heavy semi autos but if a good deal on a nice wheelgun pops up, I'm more than interested.
PS...I have a USP 45, USP 9, & a Beretta 92fs with 5000 rounds plus through each...the USP 45 w/ many many many more than that w/o a hiccup....and a relatively new Glock 19 w/ 2000 rounds through it. To bad you have found so many poor performers

 

[Andrew S]

Have you had anyone else shoot these guns that you have had problems with?

Have you tried different ammo?

What is your cleaning/lubing procedure?

I gaurantee there is either something wrong on your end or with the ammo you are using. 200-300 rounds isnt really a lot of break in time either. I wouldnt give up on a gun until I put at least 5 different types of ammo through it and at least 500 rounds to give it a good break in.

 

[AJAX22]

Browning designed most of the successfull pistols that were available at the turn of the century,

Colt Woodsman
Colt Model 1897
FN Browning M1899/M1900
Colt Model 1900
Colt Model 1902
Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammer (.38 ACP)
Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammerless (.32 ACP)
Colt Model 1905 (1st .45 ACP)
Colt Model 1908 Vest Pocket (.25 ACP)
Colt Model 1908 Pocket Hammerless (.380 ACP)
FN Model 1910
The Browning Hi-Power, the last firearm Browning developed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Browning#Firearms


I've been suprised to note that browning had a hand in designing just about every long gun I've fallen in love with.
Ithaca 37
Stevens 520
Winchester 1897
Auto 5 shotgun
Winchester Model 1887 lever-action repeating shotgun

and all manner of other rifle designs.

he even invented some of the cartridges that we take for granted today

.25 ACP
.32 ACP
.38 ACP
9mm Browning Long
.380 ACP
.45 ACP
.50 BMG

we owe mauser and browning for most of the well made firearms that we enjoy today. most of the rest are poorly imitated variations on the themes they came up with. (not trying to pick a fight with new gun guys, everything has its place, but we all have to pay hommage to the greats)

If you want to feel a solid reliable gun in your hands, buy an older browning design take care of it and it will take care of you. you will NOT be disappointed.

 

[MCgunner]

To each his own...
I was primarily a semi auto guy for A LONG time. When I finally learned to shoot DA properly, I developed an appreciation for a nice wheelgun. I'm still heavy semi autos but if a good deal on a nice wheelgun pops up, I'm more than interested.

Oh, hey, don't miss-understand me. I love revolvers, own more of 'em than autos. The DA pulls on my two taurus revolvers are delightfully smooth and my M10 is almost as good. The Rossis are a bit of a chore, but hey, if you train DA on a Rossi, a Smith or Taurus is a piece of cake, LOL! I carry revolvers a lot, but mostly when I'm outdoors. If I'm going to the big city, I want lots of 9mm firepower. Around here, no problems at all carrying a J frame size five shot gun. Ultimately, I'd be packing my .45 with spare mags, but it's a bit bulky and heavy for summer or all day wear. I would NOT be particularly worried about my firearm choice carrying a K frame .357 magnum 4" barrel, either. Just all depends on where I'm going and what I'm doing as to my carry choice. The one thing they all have in common is DA, at least for the first shot. That makes cross training easier for me.