Well known Gun rights expert arrested

[tepin]

Joel lives in MN and is probably better known in the state for all the work he and others did on permit to carry specifically moving the law from "may issue" to "shall issue". I have taken a permit to carry class from Joel and he is a decent guy IMHO. I am not an attorney but many of those that are believe the charges are bogus and that Joel was falsely arrested.

Here is a good summary of what happened:
http://www.popehat.com/2010/12/09/the-empire-strikes-back/

News / updates as they happen:
http://news.ellegon.com/

He needs our help:
http://freejoel.com/

 

[goalie]

Here is another good read, little different take though....

http://www.shotinthedark.info/wp/?p=16219

I especially agree with the end of the article quoted:

I like Joel. He’s a great writer and a good teacher. But this time, I think he’s stepped in it. I suspect his preoccupation with his wife and daughter’s troubles prevented him from thinking the problem all the way through.

If he hadn’t brought the knife, if he hadn’t videotaped himself violating the Order, if he hadn’t published his confession on YouTube . . . maybe things would have worked out differently and I’d have been eager to stand behind him. I’ve hit his Donate button on the Ellegon website out of respect for his past contributions to the carry movement, but I don’t think the carry community benefits from making his case a hill to die on. I won’t be publicly supporting him.

Joe Doakes

 

[JohnBT]

http://www.popehat.com/2010/12/09/th...-strikes-back/

Sheesh, talk about poorly written juvenile drivel. Is everyone involved in this case batty?

 

[Sam1911]

Sheesh, talk about poorly written juvenile drivel. Is everyone involved in this case batty?

Reads like any other blog to me. (A little hyper, a bit too stream-of-consciousness.) More logical than many.

It will be interesting to see if how the courts deal with the (apparent) lack of a law violation.

 

[IncredibleGord]

I live in Mn. Lots of people know Joel, and he is very respected. Just think of how devastating it would be if he gets the felony. His collection, career, and life would forever be severely altered.

 

[goalie]

I live in Mn. Lots of people know Joel, and he is very respected. Just think of how devastating it would be if he gets the felony. His collection, career, and life would forever be severely altered.

The "very respected" part is very debatable. His personality is such that he was banned from AR15.com rather quickly, he had his own forum that he shut-down after a blow-up/tantrum and he spends his free time making parody websites of other instructors that he doesn't like.

He is obnoxious and polarizing enough that, if his jury was comprised of 12 permit holders, he would be VERY lucky to get a favorable result.

 

[tepin]

@goalie:
Some folks have a problem seeing the bigger picture in a situation when there is an axe to grind. Not that you do, I’m just say’ in…

Regarding your comment, “…if his jury was comprised of 12 permit holders, he would be VERY lucky to get a favorable result”. Is this comment based on some official poll, what someone told you or that you and Joel have had a run-in in the past? I am just curious because I do want to understand the source of your comment. I only ask this because I did see another user named David “Goalie” Haagensen in Rogues Gallery 2 on Joel’s WEB site which is labeled "Largely linked from MNGuntalk.com, the Mos Eisley of the Minnesota gun world." – I do not know what that means and I am not say’ in it is you but it is curious. Anyway, I do like the Hank Hill avatar, do you still use it? I digress...

For educational purposes, here is a post from another MN pro-carry board (that you frequent) that makes an important point that we can all learn from. The poster is also a MN attorney and a frequent poster on gun rights and related matters. I assume you have seen this post since you have been actively posting in the same thread. Here it is for the benefit of others:

Source:Carry Forum dot Com
This is more about our justice system than about Joel. The preposterous amount of bail is the usual way to coerce a defendant to plead. If they had a solid case they'd have mailed him a Summons.

The reasons for an arrest and bail in any case is that there is a likelihood of flight and/or a threat of violence toward others. It's kind of why we deny bail to serial killers. Or, (the reason not written in the law), when they want to force a plea.

Joel has a home, business and family here, He is a long time resident. Hardy a flight risk. If they really thought he was "dangerous" they'd have arrested him immediately, rather than after a month of non-dangerous living. And too, if they thought he was dangerous, or mentally unstable, they'd have asked and gotten an order for a menatal evaluation today. That's just standard procedure and happens every day. But I don't think that happened either.

This kind of thing happens all the time to unpopular defendants, or simply whenever there is a weak case against somebody, but they want a conviction because the defendant has a case against THEM.

If you EVER disagree with the government, it could be YOU. We should focus on the behavior of the folks that are supposed to be working for us, and are paid by us. Joel is just the victim of the moment. Sadly, so is his family. Another coercion on a defendant.

-------------

The "very respected" part is very debatable. His personality is such that he was banned from AR15.com rather quickly, he had his own forum that he shut-down after a blow-up/tantrum and he spends his free time making parody websites of other instructors that he doesn't like.

He is obnoxious and polarizing enough that, if his jury was comprised of 12 permit holders, he would be VERY lucky to get a favorable result.

I live in Mn. Lots of people know Joel, and he is very respected. Just think of how devastating it would be if he gets the felony. His collection, career, and life would forever be severely altered.

 

[230therapy]

Looks like a PoP charge.

 

[Sam1911]

Let's keep the personal comments and call-outs to a minimum. (Which is Mod-code-speak for, "DROP IT.")

It is obvious Mr. Rosenberg is a contentious and not universally popular person.

Let's keep the discussion focused on the facts of the case as they become clear.

 

[tepin]

Thank you Sam1911.
I only seek to understand others perspectives more clearly in this case.

 

[goalie]

The poster is also a MN attorney and a frequent poster on gun rights and related matters. I assume you have seen this post since you have been actively posting in the same thread. Here it is for the benefit of others:

This was written by an attorney also.

I like Joel. He’s a great writer and a good teacher. But this time, I think he’s stepped in it. I suspect his preoccupation with his wife and daughter’s troubles prevented him from thinking the problem all the way through.

If he hadn’t brought the knife, if he hadn’t videotaped himself violating the Order, if he hadn’t published his confession on YouTube . . . maybe things would have worked out differently and I’d have been eager to stand behind him. I’ve hit his Donate button on the Ellegon website out of respect for his past contributions to the carry movement, but I don’t think the carry community benefits from making his case a hill to die on. I won’t be publicly supporting him.

Joe Doakes

A lot of us see the big picture. Too bad Mr Rosenberg's anger doesn't allow HIM to see it.

Maybe if he did see that big picture you're talking about, he wouldn't have had to beg people to get his ass out of jail. Heck, if you read up on the situation, you would realize that, IF CONTESTING THE COURT ORDER IS REALLY WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT, then nobody had to go to jail at all to get that done.

Anyhow, people can support the guy all they want. It doesn't change the fact that his behavior over the last several years has been reprehensible, and has pissed off enough people that he has far from unanimous support from the "carry community" in this state.



FWIW, your posting of my personal information is pretty classy. Just like Joel.

 

[Special_K]

As a person that actually KNOWS JOEL I can speak a bit about his character and to the story (at least as well as I understand it)


Joel was going into the Sheriff's office to get information for some other matter. He had notified the Sheriff that he was going to be carrying and the Sheriff was fine with it. The building he was in was NOT a courthouse nor was it connected to a courthouse.

Mr. Palmer committed assault and battery for unlawfully disarming Mr. Rosenburg. He took Joel's firearm from its holster and swept the office worker with the muzzle as he unloaded it. Mr. Palmer then unlawfully requested that Mr. Rosenburg was not able to carry in the building and that he had to put it back in his vehicle (Btw, did I mention Mr. Rosenburg was carrying another gun and a knife?)

As far as the accusations about Mr. Rosenburg going off half-cocked and being angry about it. Anything but, Mr. Rosenburg may be unhappy but he will not explode in a fit of rage. He is meticulous about his motions, how he carries, and what I consider to be one of Minnesota's best carry instructor.

YMMV.

 

[One-Time]

posted by:JPG19 Posts: 6 This guy is an idiot and gives the anti-2A'ers plenty of ammo (pun intended) they didn't need. If the police ask you to disarm, you do so. Have a problem with it? Handle it <i>after</i> you have disarmed yourself. Breaking the law while antagonizing the police is damn near worthy of a Darwin award.

Good advice...wonder how it worked out for the Jews in Germany in the 30s and 40s...bet they got their day after disarming...oh wait, they were slaughtered by the millions

so whos the idiot again?

 

[tepin]

Thanks for the confirmation.

FWIW, your posting of my personal information is pretty classy. Just like Joel.

 

[tepin]

One-Time:
I dont understand your point as it relates to JR. Help me here?!?

 

[Sam1911]

Guess you all missed the point about leaving your egos and insults at the door. And about sticking to the facts of the case instead of trying Mr. Rosenberg in "personality court."

Too bad.

Someone send me a PM when something OFFICIAL happens with this case and I'll consider reopening it.