West Fork Armory Nickel Boron BCG and trigger group - MULTIPLE ISSUES

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HRnightmare

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I recently converted to the West Fork Armory Nickel Boron BCG and trigger group because I heard it was easier to clean and ran drier and smoother...

I took it to a class where we had to shoot about 1000 rds. Using a gun I had shot over that many before with a std factory RRA BCG and trigger assembly and with Wolf and Tulammo with NO problems.

The new bolt failed to lock to the rear about 15 times, multiple FTE's (About 6), multiple time where the bolt locked to the rear with a full mag (5-6 times)...IT got so bad I switched back to a std mil spec BCG with about 2000 rds thru it and suffered no issues through the second half of the class.

The WFA BCG and trigger is either going in the trash or on Ebay...It will never go back in my firearm...When I contacted WFA I was attacked with arrogance and unwillingness to except the fact that their product had produced terrible results.

In fact their response was pretty insulting...

NEVER AGAIN!!!!
 
They advertise an easy to clean trigger group?...after thousands of rounds my standard fire control group is hardly dirty at all..not much cleaning needed there
 
Vary rarely is the cheapest, the best. Never heard of WFA till your post. But BCG, regular or Nib, for less than half the price of known products(Bravo Co., FailZero and others) would be my first clue that something is fishy.
 
Sorry for the bad experience, but have a few comments.

First, you've shot more than 1000 rds. flawlessly with the stock BCG. What did you expect to accomplish with a different BCG?

Second, the old adage comes to mind that you can't gild a lily.
 
That is a good lesson to learn. Never take something to a class or match that you have to pay for.

If you want to deal with malfunctions, do that when the time is free.
 
First, you've shot more than 1000 rds. flawlessly with the stock BCG. What did you expect to accomplish with a different BCG?
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I expected it to work as advertised, easier to clean and not needing to be lubed. Really the main reason is shooting a suppressed 10.5" SBR gets everything super dirty, I was looking for something to have to clean a little less. It is a little easier to pull out of the gun and wipe down but overall it doesn't reduce any effort or time in cleaning it thoroughly.

I picked up the WFA on a recommendation by a very reputable gunsmith.

It is entirely possible that I got a dud. It was odd because it worked flawlessly on the range the week before. I do not think it liked the rapid firing and the rain and dirt the gun became exposed to at the range.
 
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anytime you get a new ar-15 or a new bcg,1st order of the day is to install an extractor upgrade kit.the kit takes the worry out of feeding/ejection problems.
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I understand what you are saying but I have nearly 20k rds through AR15's of different types, qualities and lengths and have never once upgraded the extractor.
 
i haven't "upgraded" them but i've worn/replaced a couple
 
Standard Mil Spec AR parts is all you need. They have performed well for many years. I typically only clean my lowers after 1000 rounds. I clean the bolt and leave the lower alone.
I've never heard of that brand before but the customer service doesn't sound very good.
Did they offer you a parts trade?
 
I purchased a ni boron BCG from West Fork some months ago, it was installed in a 300 Blackout build and to date has digested about 500 supersonic rounds of various bullet weights without a burp. I keep it wet with Mobil 1 even though ni boron and it does get dirty and is little easier to clean than a phosphate carrier but it works flawlessly and looks neat. I am :)
 
Sam1911 said:
You mean, "not needing to be lubed*as much," right? You didn't actually run it DRY did you?
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Agreed with the above. Read the same thing and immediately thought the same thing.
 
In the rain. Suppressed. Dry or not, it wasn't the time to experiment. BUT - he had a backup plan, installed his validated bolt carrier, and moved on. His expectations got hurt more than his weekend.

The bolt engages with the magazine powered hold back, so apparently the old bolt interacted with it within the dynamic envelope expected. That brings up the question of whether the new bolt carrier was the same weight?

Any direct observations about the trigger group, no malfunctions mentioned attributable to it so far.
 
The new bolt failed to lock to the rear about 15 times, multiple FTE's (About 6), multiple time where the bolt locked to the rear with a full mag (5-6 times)..
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Hmmm, that is a mix of symptoms. My first thought would be you are getting blowby between the gas key and the bolt carrier and losing a lot of gas, since a suppressed 10.5" will normally not have any kind of problems with lack of gas pressure. However, if it is also locking back randomly with a full mag, maybe it is some weird interaction between the new BCG and the bolt release?

FTEs are also not unusual since the timing window for a 10.5" suppressed is pretty small. If the bolt starts extraction too early (lighter buffer) or what have you, then the extractor can slip off as the casing is still obturated. Wolf and Tula ammo will make that problem worse since steel shrinks back slower than brass and is less elastic. That would also explain some of the short strokes since if your timing is off, the BCG may be using most of its gas to try and pull the case before it is ready to come out. Do you remember if the cases that did extract had strong bite marks on them?

On the other hand, your stock BCG seems to be doing the job despite any potential issues. I know you don't have any interest in the product or troubleshooting it; but that is such an unusual and contradictory mix of symptoms that I'm real curious as to what is going on.
 
Wolf and Tula ammo will make that problem worse since steel shrinks back slower than brass and is less elastic.
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See thats what I thought...BUT I had over 1000 rds of a mix of Tula ano wolf through it with NO problems. It wasn't until I switched to federal 55gr and American eagle that the problems began...

I thought it was odd that the more quality ammo gave me more problems.

Do you remember if the cases that did extract had strong bite marks on them?
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That was the first thing I checked and there were no unusualy bite marks or dents in the case as I have seen in others who suffer FTE problems.
 
See thats what I thought...BUT I had over 1000 rds of a mix of Tula ano wolf through it with NO problems. It wasn't until I switched to federal 55gr and American eagle that the problems began...
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I have seen people have that same issue - run Wolf or some other steel cased ammo fine and then have problems with brass cased ammo. For a long time, people have speculated on why that is. My pet theory is that the steel, being slower to obturate, allows more carbon blow-by and the chamber gets dirtier (dimensions get a hair smaller from baked on carbon) and when they switch to brass (which expands more), it sticks to the tighter, carbon-covered chamber and refuses to extract.

Others will blame it on lacquer from the steel case gumming up the chamber because patches sometimes used to come out pinkinsh (which I believe is actually the red neck and primer sealant on older style Wolf and other Russian ammo). I've tried several times to melt the lacquer off a case and haven't been able to do it in an oven at 500F for hours of exposure, so I am skeptical of that.

Besides, I've seen the problem with zinc-plated steel cases as well as lacquer, and the problem continued. Some rifles (and not just ARs for that matter) just don't like steel cases. Then again sometimes the Federal/AE is just crap. I've shots thousands of rounds of Federal or AE 55gr downrange without issue; but I did get a case once where I was running about 10% squibs. That was really annoying.

I am all kinds of curious about that BCG now though.
 
Supressors make every part of your rifle dirty. Extra wet makes it run better but get dirtier.
 
Boy I found that out the hard way. I am probably way over kill but I even clean my mags out everytime I fire it suppressed because of how dirty they get.
 
You mean, "not needing to be lubed*as much," right? You didn't actually run it DRY did you?
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Not to reactivate a dead thread but somehow I missed this initially.

No, not running it dry, just a couple of drops of oil on a toothbrush or nylon brush and sweep over the BCG, really no more or less than I did for my regular BCG. I have never had a rifle, from my PSA's to Olympic Arms, to Spikes, to RRA that required the bolt be "Wet" to operate.

I chose the NB coating because the material is supposed to be slicker so that it acts as if it is slightly lubricated. I figured the less liquid the better given the severe amount of crud the suppressor sends back into the gun to get stuck.
 
I figured the less liquid the better given the severe amount of crud the suppressor sends back into the gun to get stuck.
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As far as carbon fouling goes, running the gun wet keeps the fouling dissolved instead of allowing it to accrete as a solid. So you after several hundred rounds you end up with dirty oil that wipes off with a paper towl, instead of dried on deposits that have to be soaked or scraped.

I realize that if you run a gun with a supressor very wet, you may end up with oil spray which would be messy (not an issue for me at this point), but from a functional standpoint running a gun dry is arguably the worst case scenario as far as carbon fouling goes.
 
Interesting point. I will try and run it more wet to see how that works, Thanks for the advice.
 
I just had this conversion with a couple guys at the range last week. The fellow beside me couldn't get his AR to extract properly. I told to just get the basic repair parts and "rebuild" the bolt. Two other guys said he should just buy the Aim Surplus NiB bolt carrier group. When I asked them what that would do that $20 in parts and good lube wouldn't do their response was "no lube required and reliability"
Mine always run well and I've never seen a good reason to run the NiB carrier group in my guns.
 
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