What 9mm round for apartment HD?

[smalls]

You should be more focused on adding objects to the outsides of your "designated shooting lanes" to catch stray rounds than trying to find ammo that will stop a person but not penetrate drywall, because that round just doesn't exist.

 

[Orion8472]

smalls, I suppose I could hang a bunch of pistol plates on my walls! hehehe

 

[smalls]

Bookshelves filled with books work great. Large entertainment centers or other large pieces of furniture, whatever ya got.

The great thing about apartments is that there's usually only a few places to break in, so shooting lanes are pretty easy to figure out and set up.

 

[SEE IT LIKE A NATIVE]

I think the best thing you can do is practice ,so that your shots fired will hit the desired badguy ! Bullets wont hit your neighbors if the are filtered through badguys first ! Kevin













the smartest thing to do is to

 

[smalls]

I think the best thing you can do is practice ,so that your shots fired will hit the desired badguy !

We can repeat this til we're all blue in the face, but statistics show that you will probably miss at least a few shots. So I don't blame him for trying to take extra precaution, and like I posted above, there are other preventative measures one can take.

 

[RustyShackelford]

ExtremeShock USA....

ExtremeShock USA has reportedly gone under.
I bought a pack of 6 "fang face" .38spl ExtremeShock USA rounds in the mid 2000s for my Taurus Protector .357magnum. The QC & design were sub-standard IMO. Some "frangibles" are not well made. Le Mas, DRT, the new "RIP" www.g2rip.com , etc may not be ideal for home protection.

As for the selection/training, I would worry about a semi auto pistol breaking or not functioning correctly with JHPs/frangibles. You need to learn how to clear jams/feed problems quickly & be fully ready to go to plan B in a critical incident.
A back-up or BUG isn't a bad idea.
Many armed professionals & sworn LE tote 2 semi auto 9x19mm pistols, one full size, one sub-compact then they use full size magazines in either gun.

It's important to train & plan for what to do not just buy a 9mm pistol & sock it away for years.

 

[chopinbloc]

124 gr Gold Dot or HST. 115 gr loads often fail to penetrate adequately for defense. Any projectile that is suitable for defense will penetrate multiple walls. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

At your earliest opportunity, get yourself a carbine chambered for an intermediate cartridge (AR, etc.) or a 12 ga pump or semi. Handguns are not ideal for anything except being small enough to conveniently carry on your person.

 

[Orion8472]

I agree that training and quality of pistol is going to be the key in my situation. I'm a good shot [small groups at the range], . . . . but haven't had any training FOR "a home invasion", so it is hard to know how that sitation would go. I DO have a carbine, but I would have to do a lot more training with something like that, . . . but it is do-able.

As I said in a post above, . . . fortunately, my apartment setup makes a break in highly unlikely. And with a block of wood, . . . I could even make that even less likely. In fact, . . . that's probably my best bet rather than allowing any possibility OF someone getting in. Would make all this unnecessary.

 

[Skribs]

Anything that can go deep enough into an attacker to hit his vitals will also go through walls. Your first priority should be getting something that will stop attackers. Your second priority should be hitting them instead of missing and going through more walls.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Maybe Glaser safety slugs made by Cor-Bon or such per-fragmented slugs.

Deaf

 

[Shawn Dodson]

If your options for home defense is a 9mm handgun, what is the best option to use if you live in an apartment?

and...

Yes, those are all legitimate threads on defensive ammo, . . . but I was more interested in the use of that ammo in an apartment setting where other families come into play, and a potential over penetrating projectile.

If wall penetration in the event of an errant shot is a significant concern then the "best option" is to sell the 9mm, use the money to buy a quality 12 gauge shotgun and load it with birdshot.

Or you can continue to waste your time running around looking for a 9mm load that doesn't exist.

 

[rbernie]

Anything that can go deep enough into an attacker to hit his vitals will also go through walls. Your first priority should be getting something that will stop attackers. Your second priority should be hitting them instead of missing and going through more walls

This.

 

[19-3Ben]

Just spit-balling here. I've never tried this before, but it might just be an idea. When you figure out the "lanes of fire" take a look and see which walls might be hit. by missed/stray bullets. I wonder if it might pay to lay up 3/4" plywood board over those walls, and then just skim and paint them so they look like any other standard wall of the house. I have no doubt that a bullet would pass through 3/4" plywood, however it's nasty stuff and a tough medium that juuuuust might take enough of the edge off the velocity of a bullet that it could make a pass-through that a little less lethal on the other end. If you mud and paint well, that reinforcement would just blend in and not even be visible.

Probably not going to make a significant difference, and I realize that. I wanted to throw the idea out here to see what the folks on the board have to say.

 

[Orion8472]

I'm just going to cut a board to span between my outside door and the wall and not worry about home invasion.

 

[SilentScream]

Below is a link to a YouTube channel I stumbled upon a couple of years ago. It does a pretty good job of demonstrating what bullets actually penetrate through in homes/apartments.
http://youtu.be/qTb208F4pi0

 

[sharpcoolman]

i would go with a light weight polymer tip bullet. you don't want to kill your neighbors too. i know i will get all kinds of lecturing for me telling you this. but an avaerage human's torso is 6" from front to back their heart is 4" into the chest cavity. FBI's 12" penetration in my opinion is over kill. a double tap to the torso will drop a normal human being, chances are your intruder is not a body builder with pounds of muscle hanging on their chest.

 

[tuj]

a double tap to the torso will drop a normal human being

And let's see, how many fire-fights have you been in? You realize that Jim Cirillo witnessed more police shoot-outs than pretty much anyone in modern times and he said he only saw two one-shot stops. One was a .30 carbine to the head; the other was a 12ga to the chest at short range. He said they would shoot the bad guys in the head with their .357mag and .45acp duty guns, loaded with their own special ammo, and these guys would still run away before they dropped.

Case 2: my wife was on a murder case where the defendant shot his knife-wielding attacker three times with a .45acp. The guy was shot across the torso, with the bullet entering his side, puncturing both lungs, and passing out his other side. He still managed to run away and bled out in his apartment (verdict on the shooter: not guilty).

My point being, a 'double-tap' is probably *not* going to drop a human being.

 

[Orion8472]

I suppose I could use a Five Seven pistol. 40gr blue tip.

 

[sharpcoolman]

You realize that Jim Cirillo witnessed more police shoot-outs than pretty much anyone in modern times and he said he only saw two one-shot stops.

and that is why i said double tap. people don't seem to understand that people have been killed by sling shots, and bb guns. in war fmj is used and it still kills.

 

[strambo]

Except you didn't say "kill" you said "drop." The only way (from a physiological standpoint) a human "drops" from a bullet strike is a) CNS is hit, b) something structural is hit and they can't stand (femur etc.) or c) they collapse from lack of oxygen to the brain.

As far as a "double tap" (or any amount of "tapping") to the chest from any handgun round reliably "dropping" a human instantly...the odds are against it. Odds of hitting the spine are very small with a chest shot. For b) N/A for the chest. And c), a human can have 7-30 seconds or so of conscious voluntary control after being hit through the heart.

As far as war and FMJs go, read the account of any medal of honor winner to see how many FMJ rifle rounds and shrapnel a human can absorb and continue to function after w/o being "dropped."

If you believe the odds are great that a double-tap to the chest will drop someone and in reality it is the opposite, you are set up for a rude awakening and immediate need for a "plan B" at the worst possible moment. Personally, I train for my handgun rounds not to drop them. Them dropping would be an unexpected surprise and nothing I need to train for.

 

[CWL]

FBI's 12" penetration in my opinion is over kill. a double tap to the torso will drop a normal human being, chances are your intruder is not a body builder with pounds of muscle hanging on their chest.

Yes, just what exactly are your qualifications to make such bold statements such as yours?

I get to train with SWAT Entry Team members here on the West Coast and hear their stories. A tale that gets repeated is how one of their men kept shooting a BG (just murdered his wife) with his M1911 (230gr FMJs) that was coming towards down the stairwell. Even though he kept putting every shot COM, the guy kept walking down the stairs without slowing down and then right past him and out the door. It took a 12ga to finally put him down outside.

Autopsy showed that the guy had multiple perforations in his heart from .45ACP rounds, and he was not on any sort of drugs ...yet he still walked down a flight of stairs and out the door after receiving multiple fatal wounds.

When you want to advertise your opinion, especially one that is contrary to modern science and research, please let us know your qualifications.

 

[tuj]

as others have pointed out, you keep shooting until the threat stops. If that means the threat runs away or drops by some luck, *that* is when you stop shooting. I have heard the 'double-tap and reassess' theory before, but real-life doesn't bear it out.

If you want to drop someone, use a shotgun.

More people are killed every year with 22lr than any other caliber (at least I've heard that), but I think we'd all say that a 'double-tap' from a 22lr is not likely to 'drop' someone.

 

[sharpcoolman]

Autopsy showed that the guy had multiple perforations in his heart from .45ACP rounds,

you just confirmed what i said. i said that 12" of penetration is unnecessary since vitals are 4" into human tissue. expanding hollow points have a load of kenetic energy. most people don't understand that even a light bullet traveling very fast will do serious damage. or a heavy bullet going slower has alot of kenetic energy aswell. in home defence you are not supposed to "kill" the threat. once they are down and they no longer pose a threat you stop shooting. even if he is alive an he can sue you you don't shoot once he is down otherwise that is murder.

 

[gym]

Just hit the guy three times and you won't have any problems. But seriously see how many walls separate you from your neighbors and what they are made of. If you have brick or concrete you should be fine with any good hollowpoint , like Corbon or SXT's.
Also hit the guy at least 2-3 times, before admiring your work, some get back up again, or still have a gun in their hand.
Sometimes a person may fall from the initial shock of being shot. That doesn't mean he's done. If you have 2 or 3 guys to worry about, it get's harder. As far as the threat being over, that is up to your perception, if you still feel threatened, shoot again. The last thing you need is to turn your attention to a 2nd guy and be shot by the first one who you thought was out of the picture, also people trip over things in strange apartments when running, doesn't mean they are shot.
Unless he's cuffed and you have frisked him, he's still active if alive.

 

[PabloJ]

If your options for home defense is a 9mm handgun, what is the best option to use if you live in an apartment? Should I stick with 115gr. or go even lighter? I'm guessing heavier is not a good choice, right?

If you can do double tap to the head like SAS trooper then Federal HST 124gr would be near the top of my list. Very good load and at about $30 per 50 not bad financial deal ether.