What 9mm round for apartment HD?

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you just confirmed what i said.
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No I didn't. I just gave you a real world example where multiple "taps" to COM failed to stop a guy. The BG in my example was able to continue his actions, even though he was technically already dead. Dead here did not mean "stopped".

Why don't you look-up the Tyler Courthouse Shooting in TX. An armed citizen named Wilson intervened during a courthouse shooting and shot the BG multiple times COM, completely unaware that the BG was wearing a vest. Because Wilson was an active IDPA or IPSC shooter and was used stopping to verify his shots after each string, he failed to transition to "Failure Drill" and go for the head. This delay in Mr. Wilson's actions allowed the BG to shoot him and eventually execute him as he lay on the ground.

Once again, what are your qualifications?
 
COR BON Powerball

ORION,

I would try the COR BON Powerball. I have used it in several guns and IT ALWAYS FEEDS which some of the exotics may not. It is a light 100 grain bullet and expands very quickly, so penetration is on the short side limiting the chance of an over penetration or going through walls.

I would avoid heavier bullets as they tend to penetrate deeper than standard weight bullets.

In standard hollow point rounds, the FEDERAL 115 grain has a good track record from when it was used by police departments.

I think I would avoid the bonded bullets as one of their goals was to get the bullet to hold together and penetrate deeper. The Hydra Shoks would expand well, but can also penetrate as deeply as a standard hollow point.

I have a shotgun, but will not use it in the house as the muzzle blast and noise could be disorienting and the gun is large enough that maneuvering through a small space like a house can be a problem. It is also long enough to allow you to be disarmed. I dislike 6 inch barreled revolvers for home defense for this reason.

Good luck,

Jim
 
Thanks golden.

One thing you brought up is "noise disorientation". I've thought about that and in a closed space, the amount of blast would play a role in that potential "noise disorientation". Even a 9mm would be pretty loud without hearing protection. It's something that I hope to never experience, though. But I wonder if subsonic loads would be less disorienting.

I am with you on "trying to clear a small space with a shotgun. Unless it is one of those double feed tube Kel-Tecs. But then, the blast issue. I know that people will say "who cares about that when your life is in danger", and that is a fair statement.
 
No doubt even a 9mm will be loud when fired indoors in an enclosed space, but it's not going to be AS loud as say a .357 Mag. Subsonic rounds aren't as loud, their both subsonic and use less powder, which is why one of my favorite nightstand guns (Gen4 G17) is loaded with 147gr Federal HST most of the time. Their subsonic, deliver large expansion, recoil is minimal and the G17 is high capacity.

I've shot inside the house before, out a window into the backyard to see what the sound would be like. It's loud for sure, they're all going to be loud indoors but some a little less than others.
 
If I was a apartment dweller I would run s 124/125gn Pentagon lead hollow point style bullet tuned for a max of 1100 fps. Or a 147gn Pentagon at 950 fps. And know they will go splat <deleted>
 
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Another vote for the "if it will penetrate enough in a human to stop them it WILL go through a wall". I can punch through drywall... I can't punch through a human chest. I completely understand your concern about neighbors though. I would focus on identifying safe lines of fire and beyond that... *shrug*

The Box of Truth is a great website that tests the drywall penetration of different rounds (as well as lots of other stuff). Here are a couple tests that apply to this topic

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot4.htm

TL;DR version: Glasers and .223 frangible will penetrate LESS, but a Glaser 9mm went through 3 walls and the .223 went through 4. In my mind that's not worth it... I'll stick to JHP or buckshot.
 
Orion8472 said:
Thanks golden.

One thing you brought up is "noise disorientation". I've thought about that and in a closed space, the amount of blast would play a role in that potential "noise disorientation". Even a 9mm would be pretty loud without hearing protection. It's something that I hope to never experience, though. But I wonder if subsonic loads would be less disorienting.
.
Click to expand...

Don't go over worrying about blast noises and disorientation. There is something called "auditory exclusion", which is your brain's response to loud noises during traumatic events. Very likely, your brain will filter out the noise. Personally, I have been on the receiving end of artillery and all I remember being able to hear was the sound of my own heartbeat.
 
Corbon "PowRball"....

I wouldn't select PowRball ammunition as my first choice for home defense.
It's not bad but I wouldn't say it offers the best ballistics in a CQB event.
It does offer good feeding/cycles & wouldn't be bad for spare magazines or as a back up.
I would not suggest the Federal "Guard Dog" EFMJ 9x19mm load.
TNoutdoors9 a popular Youtube channel host did a great R&D video of the Guard Dog 9mm and it did not do very well with FBI protocol tests & common gel shooting tests.
I thought it would be a good secondary round like the Corbon PowRball 9x19mm but the Youtube clip really showed its flaws as a defense round. Even TNoutdoors9 stated the Guard Dog round was far less than he expected as a carry-protection load.

FWIW; if I got another 9x19mm pistol, Id put Buffalo Bore Penetrator 124gr +P+ FMJs in the spare magazine(s). It's powerful & able to go thru common barriers like clothing, wood, auto glass, etc.
 
FWIW; if I got another 9x19mm pistol, Id put Buffalo Bore Penetrator 124gr +P+ FMJs in the spare magazine(s). It's powerful & able to go thru common barriers like clothing, wood, auto glass, etc.
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That's the direct opposite of what the OP is asking for, though... He's asking for something that won't penetrate well.
 
Well since apartment overpenitration is a real issue...

Power Ball or Glaser safety slugs.

They may not be the absolute best but they are pretty good and the don't go through walls badly.

Deaf
 
I have the same Federal 147 grain HST for my 9mm load. I love it, and I wouldn't be looking for anything different, even if I were living in an apartment. EVERY round that will be effective for self defense is going to penetrate multiple walls and there isn't a damn thing you can do to change it.
 
This might be a little off topic, but I would use a handgun and a long gun for HD. handgun for getting the kids and the 12ga with OO buck for when everyone's in the "safe" room and waiting for the BG to come to me.
Some people say to use birdshot because it won't go through walls, but it does, heck the wad goes through both sheets of drywall.
 
I have heard from a cop friend about "tuning out the loudness during a gunfight". But, he also has some hearing loss because of it. Not a good thing, but in a life or death situation, hearing loss is more favorable than life loss.

At this point, feel free to continue the "apartment round" discussion. I'm just going to barricade the door.
 
I have heard from a cop friend about "tuning out the loudness during a gunfight". But, he also has some hearing loss because of it. Not a good thing, but in a life or death situation, hearing loss is more favorable than life loss.
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I don't understand, how many gun-fights has he been in?!? Surely 1 or 2 is not going to result in permanent hearing loss.
 
Post 60.....

If you read my post, I state the Buffalo Bore 9mm +P+ load is best for spare or back up pistol magazines.
Even the Buffalo Bore main site advises to use the Penetator 9mm rounds in second or third magazines.
I, too wouldn't suggest this round for apt defense or home protection, just as a carry load in back up magazines.

RS
 
tuj, . . . he's been in a couple. I'm just going by what he said. Sure, other factors than just those live fire events play a role in overall hearing damage.
 
Considering how cheaply most apartments are built (I used to build them) I would say it's not going to matter very much. I have also had to repair quite a few bullet holes in walls and doors and every one I did the bullet went completely through. My opinion is that any round that won't make it through a wall isn't going to be a good choice for self defense. If you miss your target in a building there's almost certainly going to be "collateral damage" as the military likes to say.
 
but an avaerage human's torso is 6" from front to back their heart is 4" into the chest cavity. FBI's 12" penetration in my opinion is over kill. a double tap to the torso will drop a normal human being, chances are your intruder is not a body builder with pounds of muscle hanging on their chest.
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In many cases, you may be right. 12" of penetration is more than enough in many instances. Then again, you are assuming that you will be presented with a clean torso shot and no obstructions. The 12" minimum, though perhaps a bit arbitrary, at least considers having to shoot through an obstacle, such as the assailant's own arm, which is a reasonably likely scenario. It also considers that the assailant may be larger than average and wearing thick, heavy garments. And though I don't advocate shooting at an unseen, unconfirmed adversary (say, through a wall), in your home you may have to fire through a fridge, cabinet, couch etc when you are 100% sure of your attacker and exactly where he is.

In any event, cases of people being grievously injured or killed by bullets that have already passed clean through a person a rare (granted, I don't have exact figures). Far greater is the threat posed by misses.
 
Lateral shots....

The FBI Protocol 12" # takes into account hits from the side(arms). Most humans have 2 arms. When a round(.40S&W, 9x19mm, .45acp, etc) hits human flesh, it must first drive thru the arm, then the torso(chest), then contact a vital organ like the heart, lungs, spine, CNS, etc.
The FBI, FLETC(federal LE training center, www.FLETC.gov ) & US armed services research the concept of a T zone to aim for to cause a stop(cease of violent attack/threat).
If the subject(threat) has body armor or a protective vest, then they train agents/officers/troops to take head shots or shoot at the lower torso/pelvic girdle.
If you study the 1986 Platt-Matix incident(the NBC-TV movie; The FBI Murders explains it in detail, www.imfdb.org ) had one of the violent felons get shot thru the side(arm). The brave FBI special agent's S&W 9mm bullet cut thru the arm, entered the chest cavity but did not reach the heart.
The robber could have bled out or expired on the scene in time but he was still a serious threat & actively trying to kill the FBI agents around him.
This is why the FBI & NIJ(national institute of Justice) pushed for new duty rounds in 10mm/.40/.45acp.

Rusty
 
i know i will get all kinds of lecturing for me telling you this. but an avaerage human's torso is 6" from front to back their heart is 4" into the chest cavity. FBI's 12" penetration in my opinion is over kill.
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6-inches, you say? What, on an 8 year old?

But then there's those pesky arms...

armobstacles.jpg
 
Another factor: Reliability. Please take your ammunition of choice and run several magazines through your weapon at the range. Some sidearms are very fickle about ammunition. e.g. I like 124 grain JHP Remington Golden Saber, and it performs with excellent accuracy and total reliability in my H&K PSP P7.
 
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