What accuracy should I expect in a Traditions Crockett .32?

[Virg461]

Folks,

For Christmas I received a Traditions Crockett .32 rifle. I thought it would be a lot of fun to try using a muzzleloader on squirrels. I've always enjoyed hunting them with a .22, so I thought this would add even more fun to it.

I don't think I've ever posted in the BP forums, I'm usually over in the rifle forum. I'm not very experienced in muzzleloading, out of all the guns I own, this is only the third BP gun (the other two are a Pietta 1858 .44 pistol and an inline .50 I've used for deer for years).

I am using .31 Hornady balls, and have tried patch material varying from .010 to 0.016. I am shooting 777, and have tried 10gr up to 25gr.

No matter what combo I try, the best groupings I can get at 25 yards are 2 inches. This was with 15gr and 0.016 patching, off a steady rest. Nothing I try seems to improve the situation. Interestingly, varying the powder load doesn't seem to change the POI very much.

Am I expecting too much in terms of accuracy out of these rifles? I can shoot dime size groups with most of my .22's at 25 yds, even with irons. I've always considered that the level of accuracy you need in any gun used for squirrels.

I had read good things online about the accuracy level of this gun, but then again everyone's gun shoots MOA on the internet .

Suggestions? One thing that has surprised me is how easily this gun is loaded, even after several shots. Makes me wonder if my patches are too loose. My ball and patch sizes are in line with what's recommended by Traditions. I've ordered some 0.315 balls to try, and some commercial patches (everything so far has been cut from old cotton dress shirts and greased with olive oil). Will "store bought" patches really make much of a difference? Is my patch too thin? My only frame of reference is my inline 50, which uses sabots. It's a whole lot more difficult to push a sabot down that barrel than it is to push these patched balls down the Crockett.

I appreciate any advice you can give. As it stands, I'm not real interested in trying to hunt with it. Hopefully I can find a combination that works.

Thanks!

 

[Virg461]

One thing I forgot to mention, #11 caps are very loose on this nipple. I remember having to swap out the ones on the 1858 to get #11's to stay on. Don't see why this would make a difference in accuracy, but just one more detail.

 

[Armored farmer]

Hunting with a .32 is sporting indeed. I have hunted for squirrels with my .32 for years. The .32 is more prone to fouling, and patching concerns. Keep working...you will find your load. 24gr 3f; .310 ball; .015 lubed patch works for me.

 

[[email protected]]

I have one and have tried just about everything. I get just a little under
2 inch groups for 5 shots at 50 yds. shooting from a rest. I replaced the nipple with a Ampco. It takes CCI No. 11's just fine. My load is 40 grs Goex FF
and a "0" Buckshot ball and .015 Teflon coated patching. 25-30 grs. of FFF
shoots almost as good,but not quite. Never could get the .310 or .315 balls
to shoot good. Even when I went up to the .020 thicker patching. I think the
Ampco nipple with the smaller hole makes a difference. More accurate in a 32
These guns will shoot. You just have to work with them.

 

[Virg461]

I would be happy with 2 inch groups at 50 at this point. I'm getting 2 inch groups at 25. Very frustrating. I am still surprised how easily a .310 ball and 0.016 patching is shoved down the barrel. I think I'm still too loose for the ball to get proper spin. How tight a fit should it be? I'm all for easy loading, but it seems too easy for a proper fit.

 

[Pancho]

Ease of loading is very subjective but if you can start your load without the use of a ball starter I'd say your patch/ball combination is two small. I once saw a picture of an ideal patch/ball combination that was pushed through the barrel to see that the patch material actually printed on the ball. Try the commercial lubed patches and vary nothing else. Also 777 can easily be over compressed. Try pyrodex or real black powder. Btw I changed my thompson over to musket caps because of the ease of handling them

 

[arcticap]

I agree with Pancho to try any commercial patching, even pillow ticking at .018.
Dress shirts may not have a tight enough weave or thread density which means that the material is too limp.

 

[longrifle346]

A source that's helped a bunch of shooters get the best accuracy and explains why you're not...Google "Dutch Shoultz's Black Powder Rifle Accuracy System". Best $20 you'll ever spend to shorten the BP learning curve to attaining consistent accuracy.....

 

[Virg461]

I can start the ball and patch without a starter. I think you guys are right, I'm too loose.

I picked up some Ox-Yoke wonder patches (0.015) and wonder ticking (0.018). I'll give them a try. Guess I'm trying to be too cheap with the homemade patches.

I'll also Google the book longrifle346 mentions.

I'm curious about Pancho's comment about the 777 being "overcompressed". I was under the impression that you need to seat the ball pretty firmly. How much is too much?

At this rate, the squirrels may get a pass until next year. Season's almost over.

 

[arcticap]

Experiment with the compression.
777 only needs to be properly seated on top of the powder.
Ram it with as much consistency as possible.
If that proves to be too light then ram it with a little more firmness.
But it's not like other powders that like heavier compression.

 

[J-Bar]

Blow $5 at a fabric store on bulk pillow ticking and you will have a lifetime supply for your .32.

Your groups may improve if you swab the bore between shots with a damp patch followed by a dry patch. Mine did. Being really retentive, I also popped a cap on the nipple after the dry patch before charging the powder for the next shot. I got good results lubing the pillow ticking with PAM cooking spray...pretty handy and very low viscosity. I put a wad of Kleenex between the powder charge and the patched ball to prevent any lube getting on the powder. This could be a factor with the small powder charges you are using in a .32.

Read your powder directions. 777 should not be signficantly compressed. Try a can of real black powder and I bet a chocolate chip cookie you will be pleased with the results.

 

[alsask]

I have a Pedersoli .32. The best groups I have got is about 3/4" at 30 yards, off a rest. I found I needed thick patches to get it to group. .018 denim with .310 swaged balls.

I use 3f Goex down the bore and 4f in the pan. Groups got worse with loads below 25 grains, so far 30 grains seems best. When I shoot all the .310 balls I will be buying .315.

The Traditions .310 balls were not as consistant as the Hornady .310. Hoppes Plus works good for bore lube at the range and for hunting I use Crisco.

 

[alsask]

J-Bar,

Using Pam sounds like a good idea, I might try it out. In my .54 I use 1/2 square of toilet paper as an over powder wad.

 

[Virg461]

The weather is nice today, cold but clear, so I thought I would try out the patches I bought. I stuck with the .310 ball. The wonder ticking (0.018) improved things quite a bit. I was averaging around 1 inch 3 shot groups at 25 yards. Much stiffer material than the cotton fabric I was using, even though it was nearly the same thickness. Starting the ball was significantly more difficult, as i figured it should be. Snug fit down the barrel, but not too tough, even after a few shots. I also tried the 0.015 wonder wads. Easier to load, but slightly larger groups (1.5 inch?)

15 grains of the fffg 777 seems to work best, I tried several different loadings with both patches. Groups really fell apart above 20 grains.

I also tried to be careful and seat the ball consistently without compressing the powder too much.

I'll try some real black powder and pyrodex next. Thanks for the tips, everyone.

 

[[email protected]]

Mebby you missed the point on the "0" Buckshot. You keep saying you are
too loose. I should have put the size of the "0" Buck. It is .320-.323 dia.

 

[Pancho]

The "over compression" thing worries me about 777 so I prefer not to use it. Consistent loading is hard enough without having to be concerned about "over compression".
I've always said that the greatest thing about muzzleloading is being able to experiment at the range and getting immediate feedback.

 

[ironhead7544]

Get some pillow ticking. Wash it 3 times to get the sizing out of it. Cut it into strips the right width along the stripes. Align the stripes parallel to the front sight colored side up. Start the bullet and then cut the strip off with a sharp knife or razor.

It takes about 200 shots to break in a muzzle loader barrel. I would expect 1/2 inch groups at 25 yards or better with the right patch/bullet combo.

Black powder will probably bump the bullet up better than the subs.

 

[Virg461]

I did miss the point on the "0" buckshot. I'll give it a try. I also have some .315 balls I intend to try as well. I guess there's more shooting that simply must be done..... What a shame.

As a side note, I'm convinced that there would be less depression in the world if more people took up shooting. Very therapeutic.

Thanks for your help everyone. This is why I love THR.

 

[Busyhands94]

As a side note, I'm convinced that there would be less depression in the world if more people took up shooting. Very therapeutic.

well it has done better for me than any shrink, psychologist, or therapist could do! It's the best kind of therapy there is!

~Levi

 

[woodsrunner38]

If you will listen to what longrifle346 has told you, you will be successful. There is no better way for someone inexperienced to get up to speed rapidly than to get Dutch Shoultz' material and "devour" it.

Competition Over-The-Log matches are fired at 60 yards. If you aren't capable of putting 10 rounds inside a half inch circle, you will not be in the top 20%. If you want to be in the top 5%, all 10 of your rounds will need to fall within a three-tenths inch circle. Dutch Shoultz will tell you how to do this!

 

[Virg461]

Just order Doug Shoultz's material, as recommended. Thanks for the tips.