What am I doing wrong?

[Tensaw]

I've been reloading for about three years. I only load 9mm and .45acp and use a Dillon 550C. Until recently, all of my experience has been with round nose projectiles. Recently, I switched to a truncated cone, coated bullet in both calibers. I check every round I load with a case gauge and so far, haven't had any issues with .45acp. But with 9mm, I'm having a hard time getting all rounds to fit the case gauge consistently. I've been working on this for a couple of months now and have learned that if the bullet isn't placed perfectly straight in the case mouth before seating, there's a good chance it won't fit the gauge. If the bullet isn't straight the case may bulge slightly. The amount of flare from the powder bushing has a lot to do with the bullet sitting straight. Too much flare and the bullet wants to flop around when placed in the case mouth. Too little flare and the coating may get damaged when the bullet is seated. I replaced the Dillon powder bushing with one from Uniquetek and it has helped a lot but not eliminated the problem. I've had discussions with a guy with the bullet supplier and he has been very helpful but doesn't understand why I'm having the problem to this degree. Apparently other customers don't have the struggles I have. I have thought about going back to round nose bullets but hate to give up on this. Also this bullet produces a very accurate round. I'm very frustrated and would appreciate any help with this.

 

[PWGUNNY]

The seating die has an insert that can be flipped. One side for round nose, one side for flat nose. Maybe you forgot to adjust the cone to the nose of the bullet?

 

[highlander 5]

A slight bulge in the case though unsightly is harmless. What make of 9 mm dies are you using if Dillon the seater plug is reversible one side is for round nose the other SWC. Most other die makers include at least 2 seater plugs rn and swc. Uniteck makes seaters for Dillon dies as well. I wouldn't bother with the case gauge use the barrel of your pistol instead that is a better indicator on whether your cases will fit.

 

[D Rock]

Are you seating the bullet deeper because of the different bullet profile?

Dave

 

[Grumulkin]

Also this bullet produces a very accurate round. I'm very frustrated and would appreciate any help with this.

If your handloaded ammo feeds normally through your gun and if it's "very accurate" as you say, I wouldn't worry at all about a case bulge.

How many times have I used a case gauge to check my loaded rounds? That would be ZERO after loading thousands of rounds in probably 30 or 40 different chamberings.

 

[FROGO207]

I have never owned a case gauge and have been reloading for 30+ years without issue. I did get a 308 one in a recent box of stuff I was gifted but will probably never need it. I always use the chamber as the ultimate case gauge. I am with Grumulkin on this one.

 

[Laphroaig]

I went through the same learning curve when I started loading .45 acp 185 SWC's with RCBS dies. My issue was that the bullets weren't being seated straight, creating the bulge on one side of the case. Probably something like 25% of my rounds wouldn't plunk and many of the out of spec rounds wouldn't feed in my pistol. I found that running the bad rounds through my seating die again fixed some of them. I customized my seating plug to the SWC nose with JB Weld with hardly any improvement.

Then I bought a Lyman M-die which didn't help me at all. Next try was a Lee FCD. That probably brought 98% back into spec. Finally, I got a Redding Competition Seating die. That die is very precise and seats the bullet straight as long as I take some care to get it started. Now a non-plunking round is very rare and I still have the Lee FCD for those occasions.

So keep trying, it can be done!

 

[GW Staar]

The amount of flare from the powder bushing has a lot to do with the bullet sitting straight. Too much flare and the bullet wants to flop around when placed in the case mouth. Too little flare and the coating may get damaged when the bullet is seated. I replaced the Dillon powder bushing with one from Uniquetek and it has helped a lot but not eliminated the problem.

That's exactly why the "M" die was created. It creates a 1/16" deep, tight shelf for the bullet to sit in straight. Uniquetek justs makes a flare like the original...maybe a little different angle. But better for you would be a funnel with a "M" die-like step.....no "M" die required.

Double Alpha (Mr. Bullet feeder) makes a powder thru powder funnel that has a "M" die step in it that does the same thing. $39. https://www.doublealpha.biz/us/mr-bulletfeeder-powder-funnelD. A straight flare makes wobble...the "M" step makes a bullet holster that keeps it dead straight. RCBS makes one too....but the Double Alpha one is a direct replacement for the Dillon. I'll add a picture here when I can find it.

 

[hotshot357]

I'll second the Double Alpha powder thru funnel. They work !!!!

 

[fxvr5]

Do the rounds that don't fit the case gauge still fit in your gun's chamber?

 

[jmorris]

...have learned that if the bullet isn't placed perfectly straight in the case mouth before seating, there's a good chance it won't fit the gauge.

I will assume with this statement, that if seated straight, it does case gauge fine.

If that’s correct PWGunny’s got your solution.

If you are using Dillon dies, pull the spring clip and flip the seating stem over and put it back in, to go from RN to FP/HP.



Other dies have different methods but will likely be one way to eliminate the issue of the bullets starting crooked.

 

[Tensaw]

Thanks for everyone's input. I'll try to answer questions:

I have been using the correct (flat) seating stem in the seating die.
If the rounds don't fit the case gauge, they don't fit the chamber correctly in my CZ Shadow 2 or my G19. I've gotten away with shooting some rounds in the S2 but I've also had some wedge in the chamber of the G19 and prevented the slide from going into battery. A couple of times I was afraid I was going to break the extractor because it was so hard to rack the round out of the gun.
I've read about the "M" die but don't know where I'd put it in the tool head of the 550. I tried the Lee FCD but it is too short to screw into the tool head. I tried putting the lock nut under the bottom of the tool head but it still wouldn't work. Maybe I'm doing something wrong here??
When originally working up the round, I arrived at an OAL of 1.030. The CZ has the shortest chamber of my 9mm guns and 1.040 is the absolute longest OAL that would fit.
I thought about getting the DAA powder die but assumed it was pretty much the same as the one from Uniquetek. I'm desperate enough now to get one and try it.
Thanks for the info about the Redding seating die. I've read some about it and have wondered if it would help.

It's interesting that when loading round nose bullets, I hardly ever paid much attention to how I set the bullet in the case mouth. If I ever had one not fit the case gauge, it was because the case was split. A lot of rounds would be bulged but they didn't cause any issue.

Again, thanks for the help.

 

[GW Staar]

I've read about the "M" die but don't know where I'd put it in the tool head of the 550

True, but you don't need one....you just need the "M" step also supplied by the DAA powder funnel.

I thought about getting the DAA powder die but assumed it was pretty much the same as the one from Uniquetek. I'm desperate enough now to get one and try it.

It's not anything like the one from Uniquetek. Here's a video from DAA showing how the powder funnel works, with its "M" style step. This powder funnel (not powder die) goes in the powder measure's bottom end, and expands the neck like Dillons does except for adding the "holster" "M" step.

Watch the part where an expanded case is prepped that way and he drops a bullet into it....then turns it over and shakes...the bullet is straight and true and stays in.

 

[TonyAngel]

These are truncated cone bullets, right? Not SWCs. The TC bullets I’ve used had sort of a flat tip, but nothing near a SWC. They more resemble round ball than SWCs. I use the Dillon seater plug for round nose bullets with 147gr lead projectiles. Been doing it for years.

Did you try both seater plugs? The TC bullets I’ve used had flat surfaces too small for the SWC seater plug. It just knocks them on their side.

 

[Skgreen]

Easy enough to take the seaters out of all your dies and see how they match up to the bullet profile. I have RCBS, Hornady, and some Lee dies. Other than 'FLAT' they all have different seater profiles.

 

[Riomouse911]

I have never owned a case gauge and have been reloading for 30+ years without issue. I did get a 308 one in a recent box of stuff I was gifted but will probably never need it. I always use the chamber as the ultimate case gauge. I am with Grumulkin on this one.

22 years for me, I’ve never owned a case gauge either.

Get a good dial caliper and keep your loads to the specified OAL and you’re good.

Stay safe.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I thought about getting the DAA powder die but assumed it was pretty much the same as the one from Uniquetek. I'm desperate enough now to get one and try it.

Nope completely different animal.

When asked by a friend how to tell if he had set the expander deep enough, I told him to place the bullet into the expanded case mouth and turn it upside down. When the bullet stays in place, you've properly adjusted it

 

[Tensaw]

I ordered the DAA powder funnel this morning.

 

[The Real Shep]

Have you tried putting the locking nut for the FCD under the toolhead ? I know this can be done on other Dillon's. Sounds like a crimp issue to me. What brand case guage are you using ?

 

[rfwobbly]

► Dillon doesn't really have a good seating anvil for the 30° narrow angle truncated cone bullets like XTP and Precision Delta JHP. The lack of a tight fit against the conical ogive fails to fully center and straighten these bullets during the seating process.



So for these I cut my own anvil which I insert when seating these bullets. If you wish to have a new anvil made for your bullet you can contact me via PM.

► I also load for the 9mm CZ and I can assure you that this pistol has a very short freebore, and that the shoulder of these type conical bullets is going to collide with the rifling if the shoulder protrudes much more than 0.030 to 0.035" from the case mouth.

Whereas the center example is "normal", yours will be the situation on the far left in this cartoon...



Hope this helps.

 

[Tensaw]

Have you tried putting the locking nut for the FCD under the toolhead ? I know this can be done on other Dillon's. Sounds like a crimp issue to me. What brand case guage are you using ?

I tried putting the locking nut under the toolhead but there wasn't enough threads to completely screw on the locking nut. The locking nut would contact the shellplate before the die. If there were a thinner locking nut, it might work. I'm crimping to .378. This crimp spec was highly recommended by the bullet producer. I'm using a Lyman case gauge. Early on when I had a bunch of bullets that wouldn't fit the case gauge, I did the plunk test in barrels from two of my 9mm pistols and almost all would not plunk. I should mention that I tried using a Lee "undersize" sizing die and it didn't help.

 

[Tensaw]

So, I replaced the Lee locking ring with a thinner one (Dillon) and was able to install and set the Lee FCD die. The other day, I loaded 300 rounds and had 13 that didn't fit my case gauge. I ran those 13 through the FCD a few minutes ago and all but 1 fit the gauge. While the FCD is a good "fix", I don't see it as the root cause of the problem. I think the issue is in the seating process. I'm anxious to try the DAA powder funnel. I appreciate everyone's input.
I'm retired so it's good to have the luxury of time to work on stuff like this.

 

[Dudedog]

tried the Lee FCD but it is too short to screw into the tool head

Don't own a Dillon, but try putting the lock ring on the bottom of the Lee die, sometimes that will work for dies that are to short thread wise.
oopps saw you said you got it working with a thinner ring...

I like and use the Lee FCD, some people like it some hate it.
A Lyman M die, or M die type Powder thru expander might be a big help.

 

[Tensaw]

In case anyone is still interested:
The DAA powder funnel arrived and I was anxious to give it a try. If anything it made the situation worse so I went back to the Uniquetek funnel. By the way, these two funnels look almost exactly alike. In desperation I flipped the seating stem over and used the end for round nose bullets and the difference was night and day better. Once I got the OAL set, I loaded 200 rounds without a single case gauge failure. Finally the end to a problem that was driving me crazy. Thanks for everyone's help, especially TonyAngel.

 

[jmorris]

Too bad it unnecessarily cost you money but glad you got it figured out.