What Ammo For Self Defense ???

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eric.cartman

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So many choices...
Please recomend good ammo for self defense.

I need something in 9mm. Effective in short barrel (Kahr PM9) as well as Glock 19 (nightstand gun). Also, .45 ammo please.

What bullet weight? Why? 180gr, or 230gr for .45? WHY WHY WHY???
How about 9mm?

I assume +P. But can I guy +P+? Or is it restricted to LEO?
 
Just like firearms, eveyone has their own preferences, and each will put forth excellent argumants why their's is the best.

I personally carry 230 gr. Federal Hydrashoks in .45 ACP, but I'm considering changing over to Federal HST's. But as I said before, to each his or her own.

Although I don't carry one, here is some cool info on various 9mm rounds:

http://frag.110mb.com/

I hope this information can be useful.
 
http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=78;t=000964
Keeping in mind that handguns generally offer poor incapacitation potential, bullets with effective terminal performance are available in all of the most commonly used duty pistol calibers—pick the one that you shoot most accurately, that is most reliable in the type of pistol you choose, and best suits you likely engagement scenarios.

The following loads all demonstrate outstanding terminal performance and can be considered acceptable for duty/self-defense use:

9 mm:
Barnes XPB 105 & 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester Partition Gold 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (RA9B/Q4364)

.40 S&W:
Barnes XPB 140 & 155 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Speer Gold Dot 155 gr JHP
Federal Tactical 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
Winchester Ranger-T 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
Winchester Partition Gold 165 gr JHP (RA401P)
Federal HST 180 gr JHP (P40HST1)
Federal Tactical 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
Speer Gold Dot 180 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 180 gr JHP (RA40T)
Winchester 180 gr bonded JHP (Q4355)

.45 ACP:
Barnes XPB 185 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1)
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T)
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP)

Notes:
-- Obviously, clone loads using the same bullet at the same velocity work equally well (ie. Black Hills ammo using Gold Dot bullets, Corbon loads using Barnes XPB bullets, etc…)

-- Bullet designs like the Silver Tip, Hydra-Shok, and Black Talon were state of the art 10 or 15 years ago. Modern ammunition which has been designed for robust expansion against clothing and intermediate barriers is significantly superior to the older designs. The bullets in the Federal Classic and Hydrashok line are outperformed by other ATK products such as the Federal Tactical and HST, as well as the Speer Gold Dot; likewise Winchester Ranger Talons are far superior to the old Black Talons or civilian SXT's.

----------------------------------------

Basically all the standard service calibers work when fed good quality ammunition. The platform picked tends to dictate the caliber. For example, Glocks and Sigs tend to run best in 9 mm; the S&W M&P is the first .40 S&W pistol that seems to offer an ideal ergonomic and shooter friendly package; while a properly customized 5" steel-frame single-stack 1911 in .45 ACP is a superb, unparalleled choice for the dedicated user willing to spend a significant amount of money to get it properly initially set-up and considerable time to maintain it. For folks who want a .45 ACP pistol, but don't want to invest the funds and effort into getting a good 1911, they would be better served with a S&W .45 ACP M&P, HK45, S&W 4566, or possibly the SA .45 ACP XD.

Whatever you choose, make sure you fire at least 500 and preferably 1000 failure free shots through your pistol prior to using it for duty. If your pistol cannot fire at least 1000 consecutive shots without a malfunction, something is wrong and it is not suitable for duty/self-defense use.

------------------------------------------

The keys are:

-- Cultivate a warrior mindset
-- Invest in competent, thorough initial training and then maintain skills with regular ongoing practice
-- Acquire a reliable and durable weapon system
-- Purchase a consistent, robust performing duty/self-defense load in sufficient quantities (at least 1000 rounds) then STOP worrying about the nuances of handgun ammunition terminal performance.
Click to expand...
 
The ammo you use should be capable of penetrating to vital areas/organs .

Other than that, it is shot placement, and other factors that generaly make the difference.
 
I use Federal HST 124gr in my 9mm. I do not carry +P.

Reviews of this round are almost unanimously positive, it has been accepted by a number of law enforcement agencies in my area, is produced by a local company (for me, I live in Minnesota), and feeds PERFECTLY.

Why no +P? I don't see the need. Penetration specs on this round from factory and independent testing are excellent at both the 124gr and 147gr weights.

-Mark
 
In 9mm I would go with 147 grain JHP. No need for +P with 147 gr either. It has good penetration. In general, in all the calibers, the heavier bullets penetrate better than lighter, faster bullets withing that caliber. The lighter, faster bullets have sexier muzzle energy stats, but muzzle energy is not a good indicator of penetration. Heavier bullets are harder to slow down after hitting their targets. Subsonic does not mean subpar.
 
The ammo you chose is almost an afterthought. Any quality brand of ammo will work fine - - - as long as you do your part.

If you are unfortunate enough to need your gun for self defense, it is where you put the bullet that matters most.

A poor shot with a .44Mag is less effective than a good shot with a .380 (except for the noise - that alone from a .44 mag could scare the "stuff" out of the bad guy :D )
 
I bought a few boxes of Federal 9mm (+p+) 115 gr. JHP 9BPLE. I think I paid rock bottom price, like $15 for 50 rounds or something crazy like that, and they have the highest (91%) one shot stop for 9mm, which is very high, for any caliber, actually. They may be around if you look for them.

I wouldn't shoot +P+ all the time, but when I have to use it, I know that (almost) nobody is going to walk off of a double tap to center mass....
 
I like 147 and 230 +P HST. I don't have any for .40 yet, so I have 180 Gold Dot and a little 180 Golden Saber. If Golden Saber came in 50 round boxes I'd be more inclined to buy more of it, but since it doesn't I will get HST, which I like quite a bit.
 
I find it odd only one other person recommends the Federal 9BP or 9BPLE. Espc since there have been more actual shootings with 115gr +P+ 9BPLE than probally every other 9mm round you have listed there combined. It has quite the sucessful track record on the street as well, its easy to find, it's round profile projectile feeds well in most any pistol and is cheap enough that you can actually train with the same ammo you carry.

The new Federal 124gr HST looks promising on paper and in lab test. I have quite a bit of it in my ammo stash. Time will tell if it surpasses 9BPLE as MY choice.

The most important things about ammo for me are:
1. Feeds in my weapons,
2. Availiability,
3. Proven track record.

In that order. For me the 9BPLE won out years ago but for someone else maybe something else is better.

That said, shot placement is king. You have to be confident in your skills because no round is going to be an instant "death ray" 100% of the time. I think a lot of people who have never actually shot someone put too much stock in the "pick the best ammo game". Recently leaving the Marine Corps after 9yrs I can tell you first hand that ball is better than nothing, and even a .50BMG will be ineffective if you miss. Everything has it's advantages and disadvantages, most good quality ammo is going to do the job. Do some real research (Ask local police depts about what they use and have used in the past) then pick one you are confident with and train as if your life depends on it (because it just might). Then when/if the time comes (god forbid) you WILL make your shots count.

lvcat2004 - Don't worry too much about shooting 9BPLE out of your guns. My Beretta, P226 and G19 have survived for many years with no appreciable damage.
Will
 
Depends on the weapon platform, i.e., is it full size, compact or sub-comapct? Also depends on the barrel length...you need to think expansion, penetration...accuracy and the reliable feed of the particular round to the weapon. Finally, it depends on how well you shoot the caliber, brand, etc. as well.
 
My advice. Don't spend a boat load of $$$$$$ on every new fad load that comes out. In my GLOCK 26 I use Cor-Bon 115 gr plus p. In my 17 I use Gold Dot 124 plus p. All the research I've read points out that higher grain bullets don't get enough speed to expand in shorter barrels. I wouldn't hesitate to use 147 gr WWB in my 17 but I wouldn't use it in my 26.
 
I've been using Winchester Silvertips in every centerfire handgun I've owned for the last 30+ years. They've been consistently accurate, devastatingly effective when hunting, so I expect similar performance in HD situations and I have learned not to fix what ain't broke...
 
Eric what exactly are you looking for the ammo to do???

Do you want a round that's going to penetrate and kill or just something that will hit and stop a target???

Are you looking for something considerably safe that has the likely-hood to not over penetrate walls when fired???

I use "Glazer Safety" rounds in my .45ACP and also use "Federal Premium HST-1" which is a JHP that reliably expands upon impact. Both should stop an assailant the Glazer most likely won't kill a target or over-pen a wall, as where the JHP's will kill, if placed right, and should slow down dramatically when impacting a wall and hopefully not kill an innocent on the other side.

as for all the other caliber I do believe that both ammo producers make ammo for the calibers/MM you are looking to get.
 
Eric what exactly are you looking for the ammo to do???

Do you want a round that's going to penetrate and kill or just something that will hit and stop a target???

Are you looking for something considerably safe that has the likely-hood to not over penetrate walls when fired???

I use "Glazer Safety" rounds in my .45ACP and also use "Federal Premium HST-1" which is a JHP that reliably expands upon impact. Both should stop an assailant the Glazer most likely won't kill a target or over-pen a wall, as where the JHP's will kill, if placed right, and should slow down dramatically when impacting a wall and hopefully not kill an innocent on the other side.

as for all the other caliber I do believe that both ammo producers make ammo for the calibers/MM you are looking to get.
Click to expand...
The majority of these statements are counter to modern ballistics research but I thought I would take special note to point out that jhps are not slowed or stopped in any special way by a wall. It might as well be a fmj you're sending through because it will not be expanding in drywall.

I or coufrse always recommend this as starter reading http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm
 
I'm no expert, but I hear a lot of good things about the Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP from LEO's and other semi-auto shooters. The Glock 19 is also very highly spoken about. I am told that the ammo and the G 19, make for a excellent pair.
 
If I still carried a 9mm, I would use federal 147 gr jhp.

The reality is, ANY premium hp in any cartridge 9mm or bigger will work well enough that your shot placement makes much more difference than brand or load. Think of it this way; all of these cartridges are set up to make the most of rounds that are fundamentally inferior for personal defense.

Don't play with the +P stuff. These cartridges were designed to perform with a particular caliber and weight. If you want more energy or velocity, change cartridges. (Rather than look for a +P+ 9mm, get a .357 Sig.)
 
I recommend Federal Premium Personal Defense Expanding Full Metal Jacket ammunition.

* No hollowpoint to fill and block expansion, thus very consistent expansion through barriers
* Internally skived jacket gives consistent, symmetrical expanded shape with a large diameter
* Rubber front core functions works well under a wide range of operating velocities and temperatures
* Works well in short barreled and standard barrel length handguns
* Low flash propellant for low light tactical use
* Reliable feed and function in semi-auto and automatic weapon
* High velocity with low recoil for increased energy for effectiveness, yet reduces recoil for controllability - helps you stay on target when it counts the most
* Performance designed for personal defense use, so penetrations and expansions designed to work best in situations likely to be encountered in personal defense

http://www.federalcartridge.com/default.asp?menu=1&s1=7
http://www.federalcartridge.com/ballistics/Ammo_Search.aspx?act=choose&firearm=2&s1=1
 
I've read many posts on hollow points, FMJ, semi jacket hp's, semi wad cutters and the like. When it comes to the real deal, and if the bullet does not hit a vital organ, which one really is the best? Who's got it right?....:confused: Not just hear say, my buddy this, my buddy that, I heard this and that, this grain is better than that one? What are the facts? Does anyone have FBI reports on autopsys of people who have been shot, actual cause of death, with what type of hand gun cartridge and the damage it did?...............:confused:
 
the best defensive round is the one you don't have to shoot.. with that said.. i have CorBon DPX 160gr in my XD .45 Service.. they should be fine, if i have a real need to use them..

the reason why i bought the DPX's is because my brother-in-law bought them for his 3" colt 1911.. in fact, they wouldn't feed in any of his 45s that he owns.. even the PT-1911 Taurus, that i figured would have to, because the Taurus Hex is the same bullet.. well, the DPXs didn't feed.. so i bought them from him as soon as i checked if the XD would feed the DPXs.. it did, and that was that.. i gave 25 bucks for a box of them..

i think that since we aren't in the business of shooting other people all the time, that defensive bullet design is alot of hype.. it's an amazing amount of speculation as to how the bullet will actually perform.. and, that becomes a pissing contest between manufacturers and consumers.. and that drives sales..

so, really.. i think alot of it has to deal with luck.. and bullet placement.. and alot more to do with lucky bullet placement..

if numbers and holes in gelatin makes you feel safer to use that particular round in your carry pistol.. buy them and use them.. hopefully, that will make you feel more confident in your shot placement, and will hopefully stop the BG on the first round..

but, chances are that's not gonna happen.. and you'll stress fire, and hopefully one of those rounds will do what its supposed to do.. or they will just fall over from the weight of all the rounds..

i bought what was there.. realizing, that pretty much any bullet is better than none at all..
 
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