What are the bad guys experiencing?

[lemaymiami]

Went back and read through most of the stuff posted on this thread. Maybe it's me but I have little interest on what my opponent is feeling or what it motivating them. I'm far more interested in what they're actually doing and whether it in any way poses a real threat.

What a possible threat is thinking, feeling, or experiencing is of no interest to me at all.... what they're actually doing (or trying to do) is very, very important and will form the basis for any act/don't act decisions on my part.

 

[poolingmyignorance]

Went back and read through most of the stuff posted on this thread. Maybe it's me but I have little interest on what my opponent is feeling or what it motivating them. I'm far more interested in what they're actually doing and whether it in any way poses a real threat.

What a possible threat is thinking, feeling, or experiencing is of no interest to me at all.... what they're actually doing (or trying to do) is very, very important and will form the basis for any act/don't act decisions on my part.

I'm glad to see that some people get it. Anything they might be feeling plays no bearing on your strategies, tactics, or training.

 

[boboe]

defend yourself. .plan2live

Man.. that can be complicated issue in my opinion. There are psychological and physical factors from both directions. I would tend to lean toward defense as opposed to taking offensive measures first. Not knowing the other guys mental or Intellect state. Not knowing his capabilities or self-concern. I've experienced gun shot wounded. I don't like it. He maynot care if he is wounded or dies. Typically, unless its a fatal wound, being shot changes things and if he is in pursuit or attack mode, defense would be my mode as I maynot have as much or able to match his offense capabilities. Never..Ever, lose the opponents location if possible and never get hemmed in. Always having a way out while learning and discovering all surroundings and location advantages in order to plan. Not planning a chance. " If I get the chance" ,,Is Not a plan. The plan is Always to take and make the final and decisive SHOT. (If there Is no Indication of surrender) So.I am not going engage in a dual or shoot out. To see who's the fasted, toughest or who has the most.. l may not get the opportunity to say..Well..wish my gun wouldn't have jammed. .or If I would've had one more round.. intelligence and element of surprise. I want my defense against an offense until I can say,, SURPRISE..OFFENSE.. MINE..and you my friend, not only did you fail to realize that my defense could be as good or better than your offense, you failed to prepare your defense.;; Well.. thats my thoughts my friend. Having Defensive and Offensive capabilities is the advantage over most aggressors as I would assume the bad guy's to typically be in the attack or offensive mode. God Bless! !

 

[Fred Fuller]

If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle. - http://www.military-quotes.com/Sun-Tzu.htm

 

[lemaymiami]

I know that Sun Tzu is required reading for the modern warrior -but I'll bet he never met any of our modern low lifes that give not one moment of warning before the party starts....

 

[poolingmyignorance]

Sun TZu, is great advice when you know who your enemy is, like the mongols or Persia or some other foriegn nation, or ideological fanatics. When dealing with random people whom you have no idea might decide to show their criminal side you don't get any chance to study their history. Yes you might be able to shout at them an mak them rethink their decision but you don't get any advanced warning "hello,I'm your local sociopath, I'm here to rob/murder you so don't bother attempting any descalation tactics because completely lack empathy. Try the local crack head he's just looking for a fix and might might be more compassionate. You can tell him by the ' crack head union cap he wears."
Can somebody give an example of how this thread has changed your tactics?

 

[JRH6856]

Can somebody give an example of how this thread has changed your tactics?

Changed? No. More like confirmed.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Worth reading -

http://www.teddytactical.com/archive/MonthlyStudy/2005/03_StudyDay.htm

TALKING TO THE INDIANS

By: Skip Gochenour

Note: The following presentation was delivered at the Rangemaster Polite Society Match and Tactical Conference on 25-27 February 2005.
===============

Worth listening to (follow link below for access to William Aprill audio links)-

http://www.mdtstraining.com/william-aprill/
================

Or, you can just use Pogo for a mentor ... you know, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

 

[9mmepiphany]

I know that Sun Tzu is required reading for the modern warrior -but I'll bet he never met any of our modern low lifes that give not one moment of warning before the party starts....

You don't understand the meaning of his use of the verb, "to know"

When dealing with random people whom you have no idea might decide to show their criminal side you don't get any chance to study their history.

You're looking at it from a observational, rather than perceptional, POV

 

[Kleanbore]

Chapter 5 of Massad Ayoob's new book Deadly Force - Understanding Your Right To Self Defense should shed some light on the subject.

If you happen to have a chance to observe a potential attacker in advance--that is, if what you are facing is not an ambusher but someone whom you or someone else has had the misfortune to challenge or to anger--recognizing the symptoms of the physiological reaction to stress may give you sufficient warning to alert you of the need to depart very quickly rather than to become involved in violence or tour unpleasantness.

As it happens, I was involved in such a scenario a couple of years ago.

 

[lemaymiami]

My remarks failed to include stuff that I've long taken for granted... Lessons learned the hard way include how to evaluate almost instantly whether an individual poses a threat -and how great/immediate that threat might be... It's something they try to teach in every police academy -but in my experience it's only really learned the hard way...

That's why I said I'm only concerned with what any potential opponent (armed or not) does in any potential street dance -not what they're thinking or "experiencing". Item number one for me, "where are his hands", number two is he/she advancing, holding a position or maneuvering for an advantage..., lastly is it just one or am I facing a crew?

As I've already mentioned I'm much, much more interested in what a potential opponent is doing as opposed to what he/she is thinking, experiencing, etc. Failing to observe and maneuver to where the advantage is on your side of the equation is a mistake I made more than once over the years.. I was very lucky to survive those situations. That incident out in Missouri that's in the news again is a worst case scenario of just how bad things can get if you aren't thinking survival as an everyday part of life. For young cops... they're just exposed to so many situations that can turn bad - for an armed citizen it may be a once in a lifetime experience but learning to watch other folks in any potential conflict is a skill worth learning. I was very lucky that my mistakes while learning never bit me but where I worked they buried three cops a year - year in and year out whose mistakes got then killed (and I'm talking about a 22 year period here in south Florida).

Are there some folks you absolutely don't want to tangle with? Yep, and whether you're a cop or an ordinary citizen learning to quickly ID those that you don't want to dance with unless you have a lot of help, is a pretty good skill to have...

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by lemaymiami: As I've already mentioned I'm much, much more interested in what a potential opponent is doing as opposed to what he/she is thinking, experiencing, etc.

I'm even more interested in what someone may be about to do, and if it is someone I can see, noticing physical manifestations of what he or she may be thinking can help with that.

That incident out in Missouri that's in the news again is a worst case scenario of just how bad things can get if you aren't thinking survival as an everyday part of life.

If you are referring to the one being considered by the grand jury, I don't think that anyone who has not heard the testimony can make any judgment relevant to this discussion.

There have been numerous crimes in the same metropolitan area that have recently made the news. These two are scary. The first one took place a block or so from the location of Goodman's for Guns, one of the finest gun stores in the area, and long gone. I avoid the area altogether. It was once a bustling area for offices, retail business, and so forth.

Are there some folks you absolutely don't want to tangle with?

There is no one with whom I do want to tangle.

 

[Fred Fuller]

I got to meet William Aprill at Polite Society in 2012 - he's a trip. His 'thing' is avoiding selection as a potential victim in the first place, and he lives his credo as much as anyone I've ever met. And I have no problem with an emphasis on AVOIDANCE, the first principle in ADEE.

If you fail the victim selection process in the first place, you aren't going to have any further problems with whatever predator is eyeballing you. Failing the victim selection process can be done in several ways, and it's well worth listening to Aprill expound on that in the Ballistic Radio interviews linked above.

This process depends on understanding what potential assailants are thinking... if in fact they are doing victim selection in the usual sense. For the crusaders and the crazies (as opposed to the criminals), of course, these factors might or might not matter. And you have to be prepared for that as well. Even if you're actively sending out "I don't have anything worth stealing" and/or "I'm paying attention, and you aren't going to surprise me today" messages, it might not matter.

 

[9mmepiphany]

There is no one with whom I do want to tangle.

That is a great summation of a great tactical attitude

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by Fred Fuller: As to what the bad guys are thinking - the best 'serious student' starting point I can offer is still Dr. Samenow IMHO - http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Crimina.../dp/140004619X. My wife is a criminologist fwiw... a now retired university prof.

I'm about 5% into it--it's a great read.

 

[Plan2Live]

Kleanbore posted:

Chapter 5 of Massad Ayoob's new book Deadly Force - Understanding Your Right To Self Defense should shed some light on the subject.

If you happen to have a chance to observe a potential attacker in advance--that is, if what you are facing is not an ambusher but someone whom you or someone else has had the misfortune to challenge or to anger--recognizing the symptoms of the physiological reaction to stress may give you sufficient warning to alert you of the need to depart very quickly rather than to become involved in violence or tour unpleasantness.

As it happens, I was involved in such a scenario a couple of years ago.

i haven't picked up the book yet, thanks for the quote. I was hoping someone of authority had covered this topic and one of our members could point that out.

This thread evolved into more than I anticipated including some comic relief. Thank you all for your thoughts.

 

[Fred Fuller]

This interview might well give some insight into where the criminal mindset originates ... it is however extraordinarily non-politically correct by some contemporary standards. Therefore, be warned...
========================================

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4HlXf9QKmg

A prison psychologist tells the truth about black on white crime.
Colin Flaherty

Streamed live on Dec 9, 2014

As a prison and court appointed psychologist, Marlin Newburn has seen black mob violence and black on white crime up close and personal for 30 years.

His insights are the best in the country at what is behind this epidemic level of criminality.