What are the benefits of a rifle for HD?

[TexasRifleman]

Again, you presume the BG is going to play by your rules.

No, I said that if it gets to the point where you the bad guy has that much of a drop on you then the firearm type no longer matters and mistakes have been made for it to get that far along.

If you have taken all the usual steps to protect your home; lights, alarms, dogs, heavy doors, good locks, etc and the guy is so good that he gets to your bedroom bypassing all of those things then the firearm type is of little importance.

You MUST have some kind of warning in order to bring an armed response. Even a second or 2.

You presume that the invader will always be detected in time to implement a pre-planned exit strategy.

I'm not talking about an exit strategy, but if you are in bed asleep and the first time you know someone is in your house is when they are standing over you, you cannot bring your weapon into play anyway. You need something, anything, to give you a few seconds warning so that you know you need to start the fight before the BG.

OODA loop and all that fancy stuff. If the bad guys is standing over you he is well inside your OODA loop and you are toast.

 

[amper]

The only time I can see a rifle being better than a handgun for home defense is if you have to engage an attacker, or group of attackers, that are still outside the house and at relatively long range. While I agree with some of the previous posters that in a situation like this, things have *really* deteriorated, I can still imagine such things happening quite easily.

When they get in closer, the shotgun is better than the rifle.

When they get inside, the handgun takes over, unless you have a big enough house to comfortably swing a cat around.

That said, it should be remembered that some jurisdictions don't allow handguns (DC, at least for now), so assuming you have time to unlock the cabinet and/or reassemble your rifle or shotgun, and prepare it, a rifle or shutgun is your only option.

In other jurisdictions, handguns are required to be registered, so if you don't want the evil gubmint knowing what you have, long arms are again the only option.

 

[buzz_knox]

When they get in closer, the shotgun is better than the rifle.

Why? You have to aim with both, and the rifle has less recoil with higher capacity.

When they get inside, the handgun takes over, unless you have a big enough house to comfortably swing a cat around.

Again, why? I've done building clearance drills with pistols and carbines. I've cleared my own house with a pistol and a shotgun. In every situation, I greatly preferred the carbine (and would have used it in the real world if it had been handy).

Nearly every argument against the carbine can be dealt with via training.

We are seeking quality training, aren't we?

 

[strat81]

We are seeking quality training, aren't we?

Wait, you mean watching Dallas or Detroit SWAT and reruns of 24 don't count?

 

[buzz_knox]

Wait, you mean watching Dallas or Detroit SWAT and reruns of 24 don't count?

Nope. It's got to be Miami Vice (the TV series) and the first Matrix movie, with Equilibrium as an advanced course.

 

[strat81]

"I can dodge bullets???"

 

[DavidLee]

I've cleared my house plenty of times too.. I used a vaccume cleaner, a broom.. Ahhmm.. ONCE A RAKE! Man what a party!

 

[Soybomb]

The rifle, especially in something like 5.56, can be king, powerful, easy to change mags, 30 low recoil shots, easy to aim, less danger to those in other rooms, penetrates soft armor.

 

[SaMx]

I swear, a lot of people hear "rifle for HD" and think your talking about a bolt action hunting rifle with a 26" barrel. Think M4gery instead of rifle. A long gun always trumps a handgun in terms of power and practical accuracy. A carbine has less recoil, more capacity, and can legally have a shorter barrel than a shotgun. And with the right ammo choice overpenetration isn't a problem.

 

[waterhouse]

Mobility is the key in a seconds-only situation, if someone breaks in at night or even catches you out of bed; you're not going to be alert enough, or be able to see what's going on well enough to decide what rifle to pick up, make sure it's loaded and start pretending you're on a SWAT team assignment, best to have an auto loader in 40S&W or better, ready to bang away.

That doesn't seem like a fair comparison. You are implying that I have several rifles (of which I will need to choose one) laying around, and that I'll have to make sure its loaded before I pretend to be a swat guy, and that I would be better served by having a handgun already ready to go.

Compare apples to apples. Would you rather defend yourself and your home with a ready to go long gun that you are intimately familiar with or a ready to go handgun that you are intimately familiar with?

As for the OP, some people are more comfortable with rifles than shotguns. I choose to use a shotgun, but the more important part is to know how to use whatever you choose to use, and know how to use it well.

 

[Cosmoline]

My eyes on this subject were opened wide when I first tried to take game for the meat bag with a handgun. I was shocked and amazed at how much more difficult it is to hit moving, real world targets with a short gun than a long. I know it *can* be done and I still enjoy the sport of it, but if my life depends on it I want a long gun if at all possible. The handgun's role is primarily for concealed carry and in situations where a long gun isn't practical or possible to carry loaded. But for home defense I prefer a short rifle, shotgun or carbine of some type over any handgun. The long guns offer:

--Vastly more stopping power
--Vastly better chance to hit
--Much greater control over projectile speed and type
--Better ability to mount lights and other aids on, if so desired
--Better retention
--Better as a less-lethal weapon, should that arise.

you're not going to be alert enough, or be able to see what's going on well enough to decide what rifle to pick up, make sure it's loaded and start pretending you're on a SWAT team assignment

Where are you getting all this about SWAT teams and picking out rifles from the safe? I just keep whatever long gun I'm using loaded with the safety on next to me. Same as a handgun. What's the big deal? You hear someone bashing the door down or tripping over the mantraps, you grab your carbine or rifle and go see what's what. Or you grab it and hunker down, circumstances depending.

When they get in closer, the shotgun is better than the rifle.

Why is that? Nothing against a slug gun or a buckshot load, but I don't see the shotgun having any inherent advantage over a carbine or short rifle.

Thankfully I've never had to shoot any human man, and hopefully I never will. But I *have* had the pleasure of shooting other things that woke me in the middle of the night and many more times of taking the rifle out to see what's making a certain thumping noise. Up to and including an enraged muskrat fighting with a pupy (long story). In that and the other situations I was much happier to have a suitable long gun with me than any handgun. Simply because I knew at 3 AM I was going to be hitting things better with a long gun than a short. And when you have to shoot something, hitting it is a really super high priority. If you miss, who knows what you might hit instead. Yet this seems to be something that gets lost in theoretical discussions.

I also like me a big tactical light, though that's another controversy for another thread.

 

[Beatnik]

In all the 9mm vs. 40s&w vs. 45ACP arguments, someone always boils it down to this:
Shot placement is more important than caliber.

I'm a better shot with a rifle.
I'll bet most of you are, too.

 

[Stump Water]

Took a few minutes to find it. The site where I did attributed it to Clint Smith...

"The handgun would not be my choice of weapon if I knew I was going to a fight. I’d choose a rifle, a shotgun, an RPG or an atomic bomb instead."

 

[ArmedBear]

I just keep whatever long gun I'm using loaded with the safety on next to me. Same as a handgun. What's the big deal?

Some of us move around a little while we are awake and find carrying a rifle wherever we go to be a bit inconvenient at best, and in general, a bit silly, especially inside the house?

 

[Cosmoline]

We're not talking about carrying it everywhere as a carry gun. We're talking about the rifle for home defense. For all around carry the handgun is easier. But the goal remains to get to your rifle if possible.

 

[ArmedBear]

Actually, the goal is to stop the threat to you and your loved ones as quickly as possible with the least risk of injury to them or you. If you need a rifle to do that, then the goal is to be able to get to it before you are killed or injured, yes.

Now, Homeland Defense is a bit different. WOLVERINES!

 

[Geronimo45]

If you're holing up in the bedroom, a long gun's got every advantage over a handgun. You're not moving, just waiting. But you can't expect every HD situation to be when you're in your bedroom at o-dark-thirty. Some may happen while you're cooking breakfast, watching TV one evening, etc. If you have your handgun on you at the time, it has the advantage of a much shorter reaction time than running to get a rifle would. Now, if you keep your rifle near you at all times, that's not a problem at all, and it is perfectly feasible and advisable to do so.

If you keep your handgun on the bedroom nightstand, though, it's of much less value than a long gun. The easy portability of a handgun is its key advantage - if you're not taking advantage of that portability by carrying it whenever you can, you're ignoring the greatest value of the handgun. It's overly underpowered, harder to control, more difficult to aim than a long gun. If it's your HD weapon, carry it always.

I can't say how often HD situations occur where you wouldn't have time to run into the bedroom to snatch your long gun. I'm sure that a handgun always on you and a rifle also readily available at all times would be optimal - the handgun as backup for the rifle. Guess I'm a convert to the rifle theory.

 

[Cosmoline]

Actually, I'd argue that Rooskie paratroops kicking down your door or neighborhood crackheads amount to the same basic problem for you, though the geopolitical ramifications may be vastly different. And if you have to fight them, you should do so with the biggest baddest weapon you can lay hand on.

Armed, enraged muskrats are another story though.

 

[benEzra]

Generally, when people speak of HD with a rifle, they are speaking of a short carbine in .223 loaded with relatively fragile softpoints or JHP's.

Advantages relative to a handgun: greater potential for incapacitation, much easier to hit with under stress, easier to make precise shots if required, even less potential for overpenetration in building materials (given suitable ammo selection) than most handguns.

Advantages relative to a shotgun: magazine capacity, less recoil.

Personally, I think the best thing is to use what you shoot the best. For me, that's the carbine; for others, it may be a shotgun. Obviously, a pistol beats both for portability, but loses in the stopping power department.

 

[ArmedBear]

HD scenario for me.

Likeliest scenario (Probability 0.99): Would-be intruders walk up wooden steps to door. Dogs bark loudly at door. Would-be intruders walk away.

Unlikely scenario (Probability 0.01): Dogs bark at door. Would-be intruders start bashing at door. I clip on a holster to keep the backup gun convenient and shove an extra mag in my pocket. At a leisurely pace, I stick a magazine in a .223 carbine, call 911, sit down on the couch and point gun at door. Door breaks in. I fire. Call 911 again, wait for cops/medics.

(Seriously, though, early warning, limited number of entry points, etc. make a house very different from no warning and many possible entry points.)

Depends on how your house is laid out, where and how someone could enter, what sort of warning/deterrence you have, etc. Since we're not wealthy and there's no particular reason anyone would choose us specifically as targets, I'm looking at street criminals, not sophisticated attackers.

It's good to be prepared, and it's also good to think things through before worrying about the wrong things instead of the right ones.

Everything is a trade-off. A shotgun or .45-70 Guide Gun has great stopping power, but a lot of recoil, deafening blast and blinding muzzle flash indoors. A pistol is really easy to carry and/or store in a quick-access lockbox wherever you are, but doesn't have that stopping power. A carbine is bulky and hard to secure while making it readily available, but it's a great firearm all around by a lot of measures. You've got to figure out which one works for your situation, and preferably have a secondary gun for flexibility if the BG's don't operate according to your plan.

 

[def4pos8]

Range, power, penetration, magazine capacity -- what other advantages do you desire? I HAVE defended my domicile with a twenty-round, 7.62x51. There ARE moments when anything less will not suffice. . . .

 

[GunTech]

If you are trying to clear your own house, you have already made a mistake.

A rifle or shotgun is fine if they are coming to get you, and a rifle has a lot more stopping power than any handgun.

If you simply must clear your own house, a handgun is a great idea, because it can easily be operated one-handed, alowing you to do things like use a flashlight, open doors and dial the telephone.

 

[M2 Carbine]

I have laser/light equipped pistols and shotguns close by for HD but this is also kept available.
The only problem with this Bushmaster is it isn't as handy to keep within reach all the time like a hand gun and it is LOUD.

 

[akodo]

Quote:
If you get to the point inside your home where your attacker is that close, you're dead anyway and you've made MASSIVE mistakes up to there,

So waking up just as the guy is creeping into the bedroom has now become my fault?

I hope that formats as intended...

But anyways, by the time the attacker is tip-toing up to your bed, axe raised above his head, it matters not if you a handgun, shotgun, or carbine. It matters how fast you can get any weapon into play. The handgun under the pillow is better than the shotgun in the hall closet, but then the shotgun between the bed and the wall is better than the handgun in the range bag.

The one benifit of handguns over shotgun/rifle is close storage to the area of sleep. I cannot fit a shotgun in my nightstand. Of course, that just means I have my handgun in one hand as I attempt to fetch something bigger.

 

[Mannlicher]

stogiegila , watch the video of troops in Iraq when they do house to house. Maybe one has a shortgun to breech the door. The other guys have rifles.
Maybe they know a thing or two about using a rifle for defense.