What BP Revolver Is Most Like the Ruger Old Army?

[Timthinker]

If recent rumors are true that the Ruger Old Army has been discontinued, then what BP revolver is closest to it in accuracy and reliability? This question is probably in the minds of diehard ROA fans such as myself. Why do I ask this question? Well, many BP shooters sincerely believe that the ROA is the best mass produced BP revolver on the market. Now I am not seeking a debate on whether this belief is justified. I am merely stating what many people sincerely believe. Given this belief, many ROA supporters may wish to purchase a BP revolver as close to the Ruger as possible in terms of accuracy and reliability. Please remember this is a sincere question and I am not looking to debate the virtues and flaws of the Ruger. I only desire sincere recommendations. One of our contributors has already made a recommendation and I both respect and appreciate his advice. Thank you .44walkersabot.


Timthinker

 

[English Bob]

Feinwerkbau History No.2 Rodgers and Spencer, accurate but expensive.
Superbly made though, they are German so it's bound to be well engineered. Sadly the new ones seem to have been vulgarised a touch by having the company name etched down the R/H side of the barrel in white letters, looks naff IMHO.

Only available in a fixed sight version though, but if you can live with that (as I do) they are a very nice BP revolver.

http://www.shootingwiki.org/index.php?title=Feinwerkbau_History_No._2_Revolver

 

[Deamon]

Maybe what the ROA is most based off of? The Remington Army.

 

[dwave]

My Pietta 1858 Target was very accurate. (Not to get the wrong impression, I say was because I just sold it and the proceeds helped by a .357 Mag and dies!)

 

[Old Fuff]

The Ruger Old Army was designed to be the best possible C&B shooter, and not a replica of some 19th century revolver. In this regard it lived up to its reputation, and I don't see any over-the-counter competitor that is a fully equal. Possibly a custom built and rebarreled Remington New Army might come colse so far as accuracy is concerned, but it would be nowhere as rugged. The same could be said about other 19th century replicas.

Ruger New Army's are still in the pipeline, and those that understand the implications would be wise to move now.

 

[mike101]

So what's the deal with this USFA Remmie? Has anyone heard anything lately?

 

[Bad Flynch]

Well, I have one of the DGW Pietta "Shooter's Revolvers" and it has always been a good gun and shoots well. However, I did order the Pedersoli Remingon to see if it really is everything that is said about it.

I even have a Traditions by Pietta and, after some gunsmithing work, it is a really decent gun. Maybe one does not need to spend all that money after all.

 

[ArmedBear]

it would be nowhere as rugged

I always figured that good balance and comfortable shooting weight were a reasonable tradeoff for "ruggedness". A 2.7 lb. well-balanced though maxed-out weight-wise 1860's revolver vs. a 3.1 lb. 1970's investment-cast beast that's "rugged"? (The new Ubertis have forged frames, BTW). Someone else might choose a different tradeoff, but there is a tradeoff, either way. Those 7 ounces would matter a good deal on a shotgun, to say nothing of a handgun, since a lot of that weight is forward of the grip.

Don't get me wrong, I like choices in the marketplace for me and for everyone. I'm sad that Ruger opted to discontinue this product instead of improve it for the realities of today's better-quality basic and target-model replicas. But the ROA only sounds "perfect" if you spin it the right way.

Pedersoli's Target models, Uberti's recent guns, Pietta's Shooter's Remmie, Euro Arms Rogers and Spencer are all good guns. R&S is the most rugged, and the heaviest. The ROA has always made me think of the R&S design with Remington styling and an enlarged Colt grip frame.

 

[Shawnee]

Who carries the Remington 1858 adjustable sight target model ??

 

[ArmedBear]

Uberti and Pietta make them. Cabela's, Dixie, the usual suspects have them, stainless and blue.

 

[Macmac]

The now no longer Lyman might have been a close runner up, but you can't buy these new today either.

I own a pre bible ROA, and I own a EMF 1860 colt clone. The ROA is coils springs, intead of flat bar and leaf springs..

These 2 are so far apart in the way they are made it is like saying apples and oranges are fruit. I enjoy both.

 

[Timthinker]

Like Mike 101, I thought about the USFA Remington repo when I opened this thread, but I did not want to limit this discussion to that particular model. So, I did not mention it in the first posting. The USFA Remington may help "fill the bill" in the absence of the ROA, but I know very little about this model. I would appreciate some information on this revolver, if possible.

Old Fluff correctly noted that the ROA was intended to be the best caplock revolver on the market when it was introduced. I wonder if Ruger intends to replace the ROA with another BP revolver or "cut and run". No doubt many people are wondering the same thing now.

Finally, I would like to say that I am proud of the way our contributors are participating in this discussion. The ROA is a contentious topic in the BP world as past discussions have demonstrated. Yet, BP shooters are coming together here to suggest a potential substitute for the Old Army. And they are doing this in a polite and noble way. Truly, this is an example of taking the high road.


Timthinker

 

[ArmedBear]

These 2 are so far apart in the way they are made it is like saying apples and oranges are fruit. I enjoy both.

That's true. However, I think that coil springs are overrated. How many CAS competitors bang away on their flat leaf springs every week? I put some Wolff springs in my Uberti SAA and it feels like it's had a trigger job, and they're really smooth and have perfect spring tension.

That doesn't mean there's a thing wrong with coils, of course. They're a good, proven part.

 

[mykeal]

The USFA Remington may help "fill the bill" in the absence of the ROA, but I know very little about this model. I would appreciate some information on this revolver, if possible.

It doesn't exist, at least not yet. It's a rumor, about a year long at this point.

 

[Old Fuff]

Coil vs leaf mainsprings isn't much of an issue, but broken hand springs, bolt & trigger springs, and cylinder bolts are. The Ruger design eliminated most of these issues. Perhaps more important, Ruger paid much better attention to keeping bore and chamber diameters correct. The Italians are getting better at this, but they have a way to go. Ruger's bullet rammer latch was an improvement, as was the easy way the rammer assembly could be taken down for cleaning. The same could be said about the Whitney-style basepin latch. Ruger sort of borrowed the best in 19th century features from various revolvers, and then in some places improved on them.

Someone could make a line-bored cap & ball revolver on the basic Remington pattern that would shoot like a house a'fire, but if they do it won't be inexpensive. Bill Ruger brought out the Old Army knowing full well that it might not be a commercial success. But he didn't care because it was something he wanted too do. We aren't likely to be that lucky again. I suspect in the future the best and most accurate caplock revolvers will be assembled in small custom shops. On the other hand I expect the mainline production guns made in Europe will continue to improve. We can hope.

 

[ArmedBear]

I wonder if Ruger intends to replace the ROA with another BP revolver or "cut and run". No doubt many people are wondering the same thing now.

I am.

If, like the Vaquero, the ROA was put on a diet and fitness program, it could be an exemplary gun. Apart from its bulk and heft, it really was near "perfect".

 

[mike101]

USFA Remmie

"It doesn't exist, at least not yet. It's a rumor, about a year long at this point."

I did see mention of it on USFA's website a few months ago. That's the last time I heard anything about it.

 

[bigbadgun]

just got this off the USFA site but it is an old post.

April 13, 2007
For Immediate Release:
NRA 200 7
History Making Agreement — Remington , America’s Oldest Gunmake r
founded in 18 1 6 , e n ters into agreement for gun production with USFA ---
under Histo ric “ E . R e m i n g ton & Son’s ” L i c e n s i n g
U.S. Fire Arms Mfg. Co. (USFA) in Hartford, CT, and Remington (R.A. Brands) in Madison, N.C.,
today proudly announce that after extensive research, market study and engineering, Remington,
for the first time in its long 191 year history, has Licensed USFA for a line of the famous
E. Remington & Son’s historic product line - 100% made in USA.
Originally

Originally produced by E. Remington & Son’s in Ilion New York since 1816, this licensing
agreement recognizes USFA as the leader in historic gun production. The first planned models
will be the popular 1858 and 1875 models.
The New 1858 Model percussion revolver will be available as historically correct in 2 barrel
lengths (5-1/2”and 7-1/2”), 2 calibers (.36 Cal, .44 Cal), and 3 finishes (Armory Blue, Armory Blue
with bone case color frame, and bright nickel). The entire menu of custom options available with
our standard line will be available for the Remington's such as; engraving, gold and silver plate,
ivory, stag and other grips, etc.

I would like to see this happen wonder if they are gonna do the same thing as Colt with the 2nd and 3rd generation guns. This would be a great thing and then the Sig series WOW.

 

[English Bob]

I've been hoping that they were going to get these into production it's about time there was a good US Made 1858 on the market.

 

[sundance44s]

Been reading on the CASS Forum someone there has talked to USFA last week and was told the 1875 and 1858 USFA Remmies will be at the Shot Show this year ...this sounds like they are comming ! Maybe Ruger got wind of this and decided to drop the ROA ... who knows ....don`t quote me on this it`s hear say , untill I get my hot big hands on one .

 

[ArmedBear]

Face it, the ROA is not a very attractive-looking gun. It's not ugly, but for all the extra metal that goes into style elements, it's not great.

Why not make a new BP revolver that's lighter and sleeker (like the New Vaquero vs. the original Vaquero)? The Bearcat borrows a lot of old Remington styling cues, without an extended frame and a web under the barrel. It looks quite good, FAR more attractive than an Old Army.

A new revolver need not be a replica, either, any more than the Blackhawk is a Colt Replica. It could be a better handling gun than the ROA, though, quite easily, and look better, too.

 

[Old Fuff]

You make some good points, but I doubt that the current management at Ruger would be interested in investing the money required to develop and tool such a revolver considering the probable market size. Bill Ruger did the Old Army, knowing full well that it might not be a financial winner. His attitude was that he'd do it because it was something that needed to be done.

Now days I don't believe they think that way.

 

[mike101]

I always liked the look of the ROA. Big and serious. I also always wondered why they didn't just design it to look exactly like a '58 Remmie externally, since it looks so much like one anyway, like this .50 cal. Clements with the octagonal barrel.

http://www.gunblast.com/images/Cumpston_ClementsFugett/fiveshooter3.jpg

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

"Here come de judge!!" (.44WS)...Okay...