worthirt_99
Member
That won't just take out a pack of wolves, that will take small trees with it!
What Caliber For A Wolf Pack?
- Thread starter Cosmoline
- Start date
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That won't just take out a pack of wolves, that will take small trees with it!
Cosmoline
Member
More encounters reported. The AF is closing down access to their part of the problem area north of town. We just got hit with a bunch of fresh snow so the problem may solve itself.
http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/wildlife/wolves/story/245094.html
http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/wildlife/wolves/story/245094.html
TallPine
Member
Back 30 years ago, I don't think there was any legal "recreational" access to Ft Rich.
Not that anyone I know ever ventured out into those woodlands
Not that anyone I know ever ventured out into those woodlands
MilsurpShooter
Member
Bofors 40mm
What you said wolfpack...
Oh, sorry wrong wolfpack
What you said wolfpack...
Oh, sorry wrong wolfpack
oklahoma caveman
Member
well folks iv never had any dealing with wolves but they are a predator.they eat meat. they bring down moose an ****. anybody who says they wont try to attack a human has a very high opinion of themselves. i mean come on. what are we? a super creature? no. we are the easiest prey animal out there.
oklahoma caveman
Member
true we have superior brains. but most people panic in stressfull situations. they dont use their brains. we cant outrun anything, we have no natural weapons aside from our brain, and if you panic you dont even have that.
The primary reason I recomend a handgun rather than a long gun is speed of response.
Defense against wolves is likely to be a very close range proposition. Possibly too close to get a long gun into action and very likely too close to get off aimed shots with a long gun.
From what I know about wolf tactics, they tend to try to attack prey when that prey is injuired or ill. If forced to take on prey in better condition, they try to exhaust the prey prior to attacking. If, during an attack, the prey shows enough fight to injure or kill one or more wolves, they may back off and re-group, waiting for the prey to tire more. This assumes that they feel there is no other prey available. Please note: I'm not an expert on wolves. All I know is from various cable documentaries and internet searching.
Assuming what I think about thier tactics is sound (or at least close enough to be useable) then the defensive arm needs to be able to deployed rapidly, deliver enough wounding ability to seriously injure a wolf (not necessarily instantly kill one) and have enough capacity that you will idealy be left with ammo in the gun after the survivors retreat from the first rush. Note that if they don't reteat, it means you either killed them all or have become wolf food.
A .30 carbine, .223 or 7.62x39 has plenty of power to do the job and is available in guns with high enough capacity. However even the shortest are somewhat awkward in close handeling. The revolver magnums (.357, .41 and .44) are good choices from the power standpoint, but only the 8 shot .357s offer the minimum capacity I'd like to see and most all revolvers are going to be slower to reload (which you will want to do if given the opportunity). Magnum autoloader chamberings are limited. The only one currently mass produced (that I'm aware of) is the Desert Eagle and unless you have far larger hands than mine I wouldn't rely on getting the safety disengaged with one hand (and your other one may be occupied).
That leaves conventional autoloader cartridges. .460 Rowland, .45 Super, 10mm, 9x23, 9x25, .40 Super, .400 Cor-Bon, .38 Casull and .357 SIG are all excellent choices (some only if you handload). .45 ACP+P, .45 ACP, 40 S&W and 9mm can be good choices, but need more attention to bullet choice. In any of the calibers, I'd lean towards hollowpoints with reputations for deep or over penetration as a first choice and towards FMJ as a a valid second choice. I would avoid any of the light for caliber, pre-fragmented, or fragmenting rounds.
Defense against wolves is likely to be a very close range proposition. Possibly too close to get a long gun into action and very likely too close to get off aimed shots with a long gun.
From what I know about wolf tactics, they tend to try to attack prey when that prey is injuired or ill. If forced to take on prey in better condition, they try to exhaust the prey prior to attacking. If, during an attack, the prey shows enough fight to injure or kill one or more wolves, they may back off and re-group, waiting for the prey to tire more. This assumes that they feel there is no other prey available. Please note: I'm not an expert on wolves. All I know is from various cable documentaries and internet searching.
Assuming what I think about thier tactics is sound (or at least close enough to be useable) then the defensive arm needs to be able to deployed rapidly, deliver enough wounding ability to seriously injure a wolf (not necessarily instantly kill one) and have enough capacity that you will idealy be left with ammo in the gun after the survivors retreat from the first rush. Note that if they don't reteat, it means you either killed them all or have become wolf food.
A .30 carbine, .223 or 7.62x39 has plenty of power to do the job and is available in guns with high enough capacity. However even the shortest are somewhat awkward in close handeling. The revolver magnums (.357, .41 and .44) are good choices from the power standpoint, but only the 8 shot .357s offer the minimum capacity I'd like to see and most all revolvers are going to be slower to reload (which you will want to do if given the opportunity). Magnum autoloader chamberings are limited. The only one currently mass produced (that I'm aware of) is the Desert Eagle and unless you have far larger hands than mine I wouldn't rely on getting the safety disengaged with one hand (and your other one may be occupied).
That leaves conventional autoloader cartridges. .460 Rowland, .45 Super, 10mm, 9x23, 9x25, .40 Super, .400 Cor-Bon, .38 Casull and .357 SIG are all excellent choices (some only if you handload). .45 ACP+P, .45 ACP, 40 S&W and 9mm can be good choices, but need more attention to bullet choice. In any of the calibers, I'd lean towards hollowpoints with reputations for deep or over penetration as a first choice and towards FMJ as a a valid second choice. I would avoid any of the light for caliber, pre-fragmented, or fragmenting rounds.
ripcurlksm
Member
A 1911, a big knife and 8 on the belt
Bigjake
Member
portable firepower. Now if only they made it in 7.62/39 we'd be in buisness
strangelittleman
Member
Who's afraid of the Big Bad Wolf? Just stay in your house of bricks and everything will be okay, I hear he's dying of emphisyma anyway.....
Wolfgang2000
Member
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2007
- Messages
- 376
First any firearm beats chunking rocks. But till you seen the way and how fast a pack of wolfs or feral dogs can move and attack, I would stick to a good shotgun and hand gun. Both should be able to reload quickly and be of caliber adequate the the job at hand.
Some of you may be a trained tier 1 operator, that can pull a "Rambo" and be sure that all your shots won't miss, and every shot will effectively drop every thing it hits.
Me I don't trust my marksmanship that much. Nor do I trust a handgun that much. I've SEEN 40 S&W ricochet of the skull of a Rottweiler. I've SEEN a German Shepard take 2 357 rounds and still take down the BG shooting it. I've seen a 22 mag drop a coyote in it's tracks.
I understand that you have to use what you have. If not I'd pick a "plamsa rifle in the 40 watt range". Please understand that in real work encounters against killers that are enraged, both 2 and 4 legged, things don't always work out the way they should. Some things just die hard. You should be prepared for that.
Some of you may be a trained tier 1 operator, that can pull a "Rambo" and be sure that all your shots won't miss, and every shot will effectively drop every thing it hits.
Me I don't trust my marksmanship that much. Nor do I trust a handgun that much. I've SEEN 40 S&W ricochet of the skull of a Rottweiler. I've SEEN a German Shepard take 2 357 rounds and still take down the BG shooting it. I've seen a 22 mag drop a coyote in it's tracks.
I understand that you have to use what you have. If not I'd pick a "plamsa rifle in the 40 watt range".
Please understand that in real work encounters against killers that are enraged, both 2 and 4 legged, things don't always work out the way they should. Some things just die hard. You should be prepared for that.Hardtarget
Member
I'll bet this has been said at least one time....12ga with buck shot. Shoot FAST! good pistol on your hip...big knife beside the pistol. You might make it.
Mark.
Mark.
gunsmith
member
Y'all get spellcheck! I beesceech ye!
Fort Rich closes wolf range
ATTACKS: One pack has begun targeting dogs with their owners.
Daily News staff
Published: December 23rd, 2007 05:33 AM
Last Modified: December 23rd, 2007 06:55 AM
Following a series of dicey encounters between people with dogs and an emboldened pack of wolves, U.S. Army officials on Fort Richardson announced Saturday that they are placing all training areas west and north of the Artillery Road area off limits.
The restriction is being imposed for the safety of people who use Fort Rich lands for recreational purposes, base officials said in a written statement.
The most recent attack by a group of wolves known as the Elmendorf pack happened Thursday morning, when three women jogging down Artillery Road with their dogs were surprised to find seven or eight wolves trailing them. The pack silently approached from behind, and by the time the women noticed, the wolves spanned the road only a few feet behind them.
One dog took injuries that required stitches, and its owner, Camas Barkemeyer, backed the wolves up temporarily with a can of pepper spray. But the wolves followed the group about three-quarters of a mile down Artillery Road to the entrance gate.
The same pack is believed to have killed another dog in Eagle River last week, as well as at least two other dogs in the last month. The pack has threatened other people and dogs.
State wildlife biologists say the four or five wolf packs in and around the municipality sometimes take pets from yards, but the Elmendorf pack seems to have begun attacking dogs even when humans are close by. That is worrisome, they say.
The Army's statement also reminds residents that they need to obtain a Recreational Access Permit to enter any of the Fort Richardson training areas. The permits are available at the visitor center at the front gate to the post.
People who have current permits can check on the availability of training areas by calling 384-3181, or the visitor center at 384-2916.
Fort Rich closes wolf range
ATTACKS: One pack has begun targeting dogs with their owners.
Daily News staff
Published: December 23rd, 2007 05:33 AM
Last Modified: December 23rd, 2007 06:55 AM
Following a series of dicey encounters between people with dogs and an emboldened pack of wolves, U.S. Army officials on Fort Richardson announced Saturday that they are placing all training areas west and north of the Artillery Road area off limits.
The restriction is being imposed for the safety of people who use Fort Rich lands for recreational purposes, base officials said in a written statement.
The most recent attack by a group of wolves known as the Elmendorf pack happened Thursday morning, when three women jogging down Artillery Road with their dogs were surprised to find seven or eight wolves trailing them. The pack silently approached from behind, and by the time the women noticed, the wolves spanned the road only a few feet behind them.
One dog took injuries that required stitches, and its owner, Camas Barkemeyer, backed the wolves up temporarily with a can of pepper spray. But the wolves followed the group about three-quarters of a mile down Artillery Road to the entrance gate.
The same pack is believed to have killed another dog in Eagle River last week, as well as at least two other dogs in the last month. The pack has threatened other people and dogs.
State wildlife biologists say the four or five wolf packs in and around the municipality sometimes take pets from yards, but the Elmendorf pack seems to have begun attacking dogs even when humans are close by. That is worrisome, they say.
The Army's statement also reminds residents that they need to obtain a Recreational Access Permit to enter any of the Fort Richardson training areas. The permits are available at the visitor center at the front gate to the post.
People who have current permits can check on the availability of training areas by calling 384-3181, or the visitor center at 384-2916.
gunsmith
member
oooh! I have a picture!
.22 is a terrible idea for self defense against anything but crows and bunnies.
.22 is a terrible idea for self defense against anything but crows and bunnies.
Last edited:
Constantine-p89
Member
12 gauge buckshot(pump).
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Speaking of Kel-tec
There's also this:
. . . the SU-16 "Charlie" version.
The Charlie version has a folding stock that differs from the Alpha and Bravo versions, in that the trigger group stays engaged when the Charlie is folded, accommodating use in closer quarters.
It's not as small or compact as the PLR, but has the advantage of a stock and better accuracy at range.
There's also this:
The Charlie version has a folding stock that differs from the Alpha and Bravo versions, in that the trigger group stays engaged when the Charlie is folded, accommodating use in closer quarters.
It's not as small or compact as the PLR, but has the advantage of a stock and better accuracy at range.
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Trollis?
gunsmith, I appreciate the humor, but you might want to reconsider that post.
It can be seen as "preemptive name calling."
Don't need no squabble, no point in inviting one.
What say?
gunsmith, I appreciate the humor, but you might want to reconsider that post.
It can be seen as "preemptive name calling."
Don't need no squabble, no point in inviting one.
What say?
FLORIDA KEVIN
Member
i would think a good 12 ga shotgun with #1 -#4 buck and a Hi cap 9mm for back up ! Kevin
Cosmoline
Member
The snows came back with a vengeance, so the wolf menace has ended.
Time for the MOOSE menace to begin as they crowd onto my trails!
Time for the MOOSE menace to begin as they crowd onto my trails!
buck460XVR
Member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2007
- Messages
- 10,087
Ditto........and take along some slugs just in case you see bear tracks.
Cosmoline
Member
If I see bear tracks this time of year it really will be news.
Sage of Seattle
Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2006
- Messages
- 773
I missed this thread the first time around and I really don't know what this means, but
I'm just gonna have to use that some way or 'nother!
Cosmoline said:
I'm just gonna have to use that some way or 'nother!
The_Shootist
Member
Wolf or Wolf Man?
Anybody see "Monster Quest" last Wednesday on the History Channel? About sitings in WI and MI (eveidently they have been going on for some time now too) of an upright walking "man-wolf" in some of the wooded areas?
When I hear of stuff like that I think "shotgun" ....backed up maybe by a hasty exit back to the pickup
Anybody see "Monster Quest" last Wednesday on the History Channel? About sitings in WI and MI (eveidently they have been going on for some time now too) of an upright walking "man-wolf" in some of the wooded areas?
When I hear of stuff like that I think "shotgun" ....backed up maybe by a hasty exit back to the pickup
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