What calibers would you carry FMJ? if any?
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woad_yurt
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I carry FMJ in my Kel-Tec P3AT. .380 doesn't really have enough energy to expand and penetrate well so I go for the guaranteed penetration of FMJ.
For my .38SPLs, I load 148 gr hollowbased wadcutters with 4 grains of HP-38 for the range and for home. They go about 850 fps and, again, reliable hollowpoint expansion seems to start at a higher velocity, like over 1000 fps, at least. Thus, I opt for the punch-out-a-plug action of the wadcutter.
For my .38SPLs, I load 148 gr hollowbased wadcutters with 4 grains of HP-38 for the range and for home. They go about 850 fps and, again, reliable hollowpoint expansion seems to start at a higher velocity, like over 1000 fps, at least. Thus, I opt for the punch-out-a-plug action of the wadcutter.
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Duke of Doubt
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lj: "Its not like you can leave a loaded revolver in every room of your house ..."
Yes, we can.
lj: "... if you did they would probably be used against you in this situation."
Highly improbable.
Yes, we can.
lj: "... if you did they would probably be used against you in this situation."
Highly improbable.
That's a weird question. I would never choose to carry ball ammo because it was "good enough" in a certain caliber. Even if I happened to have a .500 S&W on my night stand, I would prefer it to have hollow points (hopefully reduced recoil).
As far as what I would be comfortable grabbing, I would grab whatever I could grab the fastest! If I had a .22 right in front of me and a .45 on the other side of the room, I'd empty the .22 before I went to get the other one.
ArmedBear:
".45 FMJ bullets are as big around as, and twice as heavy as, an expanded 9mm JHP. So, I suppose if you trust expanding 9mm for defense, you ought to be able to trust non-expanding .45."
HUH??? Nobody else cares to disagree with this statement?
The only time I've ever heard of good 9mm JHP failing to expand larger than .45" was after going through two sheets of 20-gauge steel on that one FBI test.
9mm is .356" diameter.
9mm Hydra-Shock expands to 0.60" usually.
9mm +P Speer Gold Dot expands to 0.70" usually.
9mm +P Speer Gold Dot expands to 0.51" through denim.
9mm Federal HST expands to 0.89".
9mm Federal HST expands to 0.75" through 4 layers of denim.
So 9mm JHP expands as much as twice as big around as .45 FMJ. I would not go using any ball ammo thinking it was going to work as well as JHP in a slightly smaller caliber.
A whole lot of people have been killed with ball ammo in both 9mm and .45, but we can certainly do a lot better than that. Modern hollow points are up around a full inch of expansion!
As far as what I would be comfortable grabbing, I would grab whatever I could grab the fastest! If I had a .22 right in front of me and a .45 on the other side of the room, I'd empty the .22 before I went to get the other one.
ArmedBear:
".45 FMJ bullets are as big around as, and twice as heavy as, an expanded 9mm JHP. So, I suppose if you trust expanding 9mm for defense, you ought to be able to trust non-expanding .45."
HUH??? Nobody else cares to disagree with this statement?
The only time I've ever heard of good 9mm JHP failing to expand larger than .45" was after going through two sheets of 20-gauge steel on that one FBI test.
9mm is .356" diameter.
9mm Hydra-Shock expands to 0.60" usually.
9mm +P Speer Gold Dot expands to 0.70" usually.
9mm +P Speer Gold Dot expands to 0.51" through denim.
9mm Federal HST expands to 0.89".
9mm Federal HST expands to 0.75" through 4 layers of denim.
So 9mm JHP expands as much as twice as big around as .45 FMJ. I would not go using any ball ammo thinking it was going to work as well as JHP in a slightly smaller caliber.
A whole lot of people have been killed with ball ammo in both 9mm and .45, but we can certainly do a lot better than that. Modern hollow points are up around a full inch of expansion!
woad_yurt
Member
Wanna bet? I'm even covered on the toilet. By the way, here's an observation: zinc guns don't oxidize in the steamy humidity of a bathroom. Of course, stainless would be better but that's another purchase for another day....
You'd be right if my adversary knew beforehand where they were stashed.
The 45acp with a truncated cone FMJ is the one with which I would feel most comfortable if limited to FMJ as per your scenario.
Duke,
Perhaps to you home defense means revolvers, not to me. Even if the most numerous handgun type is the revolver that does not make it number one in effectiveness. An applicable definition of primary is: "of first rank or importance or value". Thus, we can both be correct. Your position that primary means of the first rank by virtue of numbers; and me by virtue or the value of the greater effectiveness of the semiautomatic pistol.
Most people are restricted to revolvers because of finances or lack of knowledge or interest in firearms.
Note that I disagreed with it, myself, in the next line.
Expansion isn't everything. If it were everything, then hardcast lead bullets and bonded FMJ bullets wouldn't be the choice for dangerous game defense. However, they are. Those express rifle bullets they use to stop rhinos -- they are non-expanding.
The 9mm is not "slightly smaller" than .45 ACP. Bullet WEIGHT matters, too.
Fancy bullet technology does make the 9mm work better than it would if it were limited to FMJ -- but cold-weather clothing can stop it from expanding.
woad_yurt
Member
I Disagree. I have a S&W K-frame next to the bed because, for me, it is the most natural shooter I have ever held. In low light after being awaked from a dead sleep, I want something with which I am the most proficient and comfortable.
There are some great semi-autos out there and I own some but for effectiveness in crazy conditions, I want to be in my comfort zone and I can shoot that beat up Model 10 the best of all.
Now, if it gets really, really crazy, I do have a Star MOD30MI hi-cap 9MM with two extra magazines in a little pouch readily available, too. But, I’d empty the revolver before going to the 9MM. I can shoot the Star well but not as well as I can the S&W.
Hmmm . . . name one bottom feeder caliber that trumps a 125 grain .375 hollowpoint in most effectively taking the fight out of a man with just one round.
And I know of no bottomfeeder that's a match in any way in downing lots of whitetail deer as my Holosighted Model 29 S&W .44 Magnum revolver has taken through the years.
Ounce for ounce, a revolver can function properly with a much stouter round. That's a fact!
Au Contrair! I have loved ones in all directions in my home, and I cannot "spray and pray." Each shot has to be carefully taken . . . and go exactly where it needs to if necessary.
PLUS . . . AUTOS CAN BE PUT OUT OF COMMISSION EASIER!
It takes very little to push the slide back a tad on a bottomfeeder and it will not fire, and in a fight things like this WILL happen immediately if the BG knows anything about disarming a fella with an auto pistol.
Plus, don't count on being able to fire from a firm, proper grip and stance! You might be knocked on your butt with an attacker's hand already pinning an arm . . . and if you tried to fire from a cocked wrist position, lip-wristing results can jam up virtually any bottom feeder.
Or . . . in the struggle for the gun, the mag falls out, due to the BG's desparate fingers gripping that area . . . LOTS to go wrong with high dollar bottom feeders AND cheap brass pukers ones too.
WRONG! Those with limited finances buys a used Glock or other make of Tupperware. Lots of bang for the buck. However, they don't weigh enough to use effectively as clubs once that brass chucker runs dry or jams and the other guy keeps on trying to kill you afterward!
A TRUE FIGHT TO THE DEATH OVER A GUN IN THE DARK . . .
BTW, I personally know a guy who's life was saved by his own S&W revolver about 20 years ago. It's still messed him up . . . for he didn't wake until the BG was on him, beating the holy crap out of him. My friend had the gun tucked under the sheets and yet, being disorientated and from the pain, he didn't get to shoot the guy.
Instead, it was a long, bloody fight to the death for control of the gun and both men suffered greatly. During the fight for the heavy revolver, the original wooden grips were broken off on the BGs head but the guy was strong. In the end, the BG was dead in a massive pool of blood after the owner finally got control just long enough to pull the trigger. Most autos would have been rendered inoperable long before then for a myriad of reasons!!!
Like I said, the home owner has never been the same since. His sense of security was shattered and the horror of his situation that night, and what he had to do to survive, haunts him still today. At least he survived, thanks to his rugged S&W revolver still functioning when he could finally get control of it.
Not only is this an elitist and offensive statement, your whole reply set off my B.S. meter BIG TIME.
Son, you obviously don't know what you are talking about!
A REAL SERIOUS SELF DEFENSE HANDGUN FOR THE HOME . . .
Here's my main house handgun, a big, heavy N-framed S&W 25-2 revolver, with the barrel chopped down to 3 1/4" . . . virtually nothing for the BG to grab in the dark. Home defense handguns need to have short barrels so the BG cannot have a good a chance to grab your gun. Did you even know this?
Look at the front sight, it is hand-filed just as sharp as a knife blade, and it would do a number on a hand . . . or face, or whatever you had to use it on in a fight!
Plus . . . six serious rounds of .45ACP FOR SURE . . . and accuracy to put all six rounds into one ragged hole at 10 yards . . . about the length of most houses. This gun is one big azz, serious self defense weapon for home defense.
Hey you all with a knowledge of wheelguns AND ammo . . . check out the "Flying Ashtrays" in the tubes of this bad boy . . .
T.
ljnowell
Member
Sorry, In my home, like many other people here, there are children. I would not be irresponsible enough to leave a loaded gun in each and every room of my home. If you can do that, good for you. It would surely be a lot easier to just carry a semi auto though.
David E
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What makes the .357 (not .375) so great?
If you're citing the alleged "96% one-shot-stop" statistics, that has been debunked many times. Do a quick google search.
Why is that stat misleading? Because it IGNORES any incident that had more than one hit. For all we know, 100 guys got shot once, 96 of 'em stopped right there......but 500 others were shot multiple times and kept coming.....but it still yields that "96% one-shot-stop" stat.
A revolver is still a viable choice, but not without penalty.
A K-frame .357 is light, which means it's going to kick pretty hard when you shoot it, especially if you grip it with the poor technique shown in the picture above.
.
If you're citing the alleged "96% one-shot-stop" statistics, that has been debunked many times. Do a quick google search.
Why is that stat misleading? Because it IGNORES any incident that had more than one hit. For all we know, 100 guys got shot once, 96 of 'em stopped right there......but 500 others were shot multiple times and kept coming.....but it still yields that "96% one-shot-stop" stat.
A revolver is still a viable choice, but not without penalty.
A K-frame .357 is light, which means it's going to kick pretty hard when you shoot it, especially if you grip it with the poor technique shown in the picture above.
.
Kind of Blued
Member
None.
If a gun doesn't feed JHP ammunition I won't carry it for self-defense.
If the cartridge for which the gun is chambered is so weak that a JHP bullet won't penetrate much, I won't carry it for self-defense.
If a gun doesn't feed JHP ammunition I won't carry it for self-defense.
If the cartridge for which the gun is chambered is so weak that a JHP bullet won't penetrate much, I won't carry it for self-defense.
C-grunt
Member
Id grab whatever was closest. I know a 9mm FMJ through the heart is pretty effective.
Also, I would place the standard 45 ball round far less effective than a quality 9mm hollowpoint. Any ball ammo has a habit of pushing meat out of the way towards the edges, where a HP has sharper edges and cuts through. Thats why the wadcuttes arent a bad choice. Many hunters use SWC to give both penetration and good damage due to the "lip".
Really, I think a .40 FMJ with its shape (turncated cone???) is probably the most effective out of the big semi auto 3.
Also, I would place the standard 45 ball round far less effective than a quality 9mm hollowpoint. Any ball ammo has a habit of pushing meat out of the way towards the edges, where a HP has sharper edges and cuts through. Thats why the wadcuttes arent a bad choice. Many hunters use SWC to give both penetration and good damage due to the "lip".
Really, I think a .40 FMJ with its shape (turncated cone???) is probably the most effective out of the big semi auto 3.
C-grunt
Member
Incidently, right now I have FMJ in my new 1911 simply because it hasnt proved itself yet.
ColinthePilot
Member
If I had to choose, it would be .45.
Since I don't get the choice of caliber when I'm carrying FMJ, it'll be 9mm.(military)
When I'm carrying as a civie, its premium 9mm JHP. Don't yet own a .45. When I get one, I'll never carry FMJ.
Since I don't get the choice of caliber when I'm carrying FMJ, it'll be 9mm.(military)
When I'm carrying as a civie, its premium 9mm JHP. Don't yet own a .45. When I get one, I'll never carry FMJ.
mr.mafia
Member
45acp, police 40, or the 38 special. i would grab the 45acp first then the 38 special.
I wouldn't feel severely handicapped with any of my SD/HD guns loaded with FMJ instead of JHP rounds. That includes a range from .380ACP to 10mm/.357Mag.
Not because I believe FMJ is particularly effective, but rather because I don't believe JHP is hugely more effective than FMJ.
However, given the choice I would virtually always pick a premium JHP over FMJ.
Duke of Doubt
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mello: "Duke,Perhaps to you home defense means revolvers, not to me. Even if the most numerous handgun type is the revolver that does not make it number one in effectiveness. An applicable definition of primary is: "of first rank or importance or value". Thus, we can both be correct. Your position that primary means of the first rank by virtue of numbers; and me by virtue or the value of the greater effectiveness of the semiautomatic pistol. Most people are restricted to revolvers because of finances or lack of knowledge or interest in firearms."
I'll take my .44 magnum 29-3 loaded with JHP any day of the week over anything with a slide. I carry an autoloader concealed, but serious home defense means a revolver with a serious cartridge. I have a few around, but the primary home defense arm is that 29-3. Show me an autoloader more powerful, and I might change my mind.
I'll take my .44 magnum 29-3 loaded with JHP any day of the week over anything with a slide. I carry an autoloader concealed, but serious home defense means a revolver with a serious cartridge. I have a few around, but the primary home defense arm is that 29-3. Show me an autoloader more powerful, and I might change my mind.
Well, if we're going with FMJ, I want the hole to be big. For the guns that I own, that would be either a .45 ACP, or a .44 mag. And I would trust either with FMJ, though that would not be my first choice. I want something that enters big and leaves twice as big! However, a lot of people were effectively incapacitated, or killed, by a .45 ACP with FMJ during WWII. So keep that in mind.
I don't use a certain bullet to prevent too much penetration. I use a certain bullet in case I need to put a bad-guy down for the count! And don't give me your $.02 worth on that...please. I don't live in an apartment.
I don't use a certain bullet to prevent too much penetration. I use a certain bullet in case I need to put a bad-guy down for the count! And don't give me your $.02 worth on that...please. I don't live in an apartment.
JImbothefiveth
Member
.22LR, (but I don't think FMJ is made for that) possibly .22 magnum, .32 ACP, maybe .380 ACP. In other words, those that might not reach anything vital with hollowpoints. 9mm and up, and probably .38 special and 9mm makarov, I feel safe using hollowpoints. .45 ACP is one of the few pistol self-defense calibers that has decent stopping power with FMJ, according to what I've read, but that runs the risk of hitting a bystander, so I'd use hollowpoints.
Mello,
"Most people are restricted to revolvers because of finances or lack of knowledge or interest in firearms."
That is purely BS! You have some semi-auto(of which, I own some as well), therefore you are more rich and more knowledgeable than me because I like a S&W 629 the best?! Holy smokes, I don't even know what this has to do with original topic, but it deserved attention.
"Most people are restricted to revolvers because of finances or lack of knowledge or interest in firearms."
That is purely BS! You have some semi-auto(of which, I own some as well), therefore you are more rich and more knowledgeable than me because I like a S&W 629 the best?! Holy smokes, I don't even know what this has to do with original topic, but it deserved attention.
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In handgun calibers... .45 in my 1911's. The only way for me to be 100% confident in mt 1911's are using quality mags loaded with FMJ. But they aren't my primary defensive handguns either. But if I had to use them i would be confident they would get the job done.
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