What Caused My Squib?

[carnaby]

...and then pieced together some unrelated sentence fragments to show that Lee endorses the practice.

Lee certainly did not endorse this practice. I'm saying that Hodgdon fired these loads with jacketed bullets, which is all the manual states. Make whatever you want of that.

Look, I wasn't looking for opinions on whether or not I should be doing this, that's what my mom is for. I was only asking for opinions on the evidence, and if it looked like this was a squib due to a complete lack of powder or if the powder failed to ignite because of the excessive case volume etc.

Really, I didn't ask for any other opinions. As long as I'm not risking detonation with a low charge, then I don't care if this is a bad idea, and I don't care if I ruin a bunch of barrels. Trust me, I have more than enough to spare. As long as I'm checking after each shot for a squib, then there's no other danger involved.

But what all this makes me wonder is...why? Even if the squib was from no powder, you have found a load that will not cycle the action and keyholes on the target. Why would you want to load more of that load?

Good question! The answer is that it's a secret, but if you knew the answer, you'd understand. If I had gobs of cash lying around to do the testing the right way, I wouldn't be doing this. On the other hand, shooting subsonic loads that cycle the action is fun. And I was getting subsonic loads to cycle the action, just not that particular load.

 

[243winxb]

6.8 SPC- Have a look here >

http://68forums.com/forums/content.phpCAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

I am currently loading the 160 grain Nosler Partition, and the 150 grain Sierra Game King, and with both 4198 and reloder 7, I have them cycling but not locking the bolt back. I am using a carbine gas, but I also have a pistol gas barrel on the way.

http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?16931-Subsonic-Loads-That-Cycle

These are 130gr round nose bullets. This video was done with the IMR4759 powder 10.5 grains.

 

[carnaby]

You come here asking why you had a squib, then argue with us when we tell you you're wrong?

I appreciate all the help identifying whether or not the squib was likely to have been due to a missing charge or not! I wasn't asking for opinions about why 6.8 subsonic is no good, or whether or not I should be trying these loads in the first place. People were arguing for all sorts of things that I don't care about and didn't ask about.

 

[243winxb]

Maybe a faster powder?? Burn rate chat > http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html Good luck, be safe.

 

[Walkalong]

I still say Trail Boss is a viable option. Certainly one he should try.

I also agree with 243winxb, try a fast pistol powder...very carefully, and always have it powder back.

Ask me what Blue Dot (powder forward) will do in .22 Hornet.

Trail Boss. Very very bulky. Good stuff for reduced loads in rifle calibers. Others to try are AA-5744 or SR-4759 which are designed for reduced rifle loads, but they may give more velocity that you are looking for.

 

[Skip_a_roo]

On the same page as quoted by the OP, it has this caveat. I found this very interesting too:
"Italics = Calculated pressures may be less accurate due to the large reduction" The 308 data used is in italics.


The op's charge is at the bottom of the published data for a completely different bullet. It just seems to make so much sense that there isn't enough energy stored in this powder/cartridge combination to reliably get the desired results.

In the op's "correlation" to the 308 he failed to notice that a 1gr increase at the bottom level of the data used only increased the velocity by 30fps! 2gr increased a whopping 70fps!

The silencer will still be just as quiet and the neighbor's dog or cat or whatever will still be just as dead, sideways bullet and all.



Sticking to your 12gr "guns" is going to prove fruitless unless stuck bullets is your goal!

 

[howlnmad]

Easy answer.

Not enough bang bang kernels in the boom boom room.

 

[Skip_a_roo]

Easy answer.

Not enough bang bang kernels in the boom boom room.

PRICELESS! Permission to use this in the future!

 

[243winxb]

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

I still say Trail Boss is a viable option. Certainly one he should try.

Trail Boss looks a little faster than Alliant's Unique. . Loading 7.0gr of Unique to maybe a maximum of 10.0gr. with a 160 grain Nosler Accubond in his 6.8 SPC might work for 1000fps. Thats my best guess.

 

[jmorris]

One statement you made was

This may be true, but it may also be that there was no powder in the case.

Then you say

As long as I'm checking after each shot for a squib

The answers you received as to “why” were assuming you were checking to make sure you had powder as much as you were checking if bullets were stuck in the barrel.

You certainly knew before you started a new thread that if you had zero powder in the case, that would have been the cause of your squib…right?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Why are you guys continuing to argue (I mean reason) with this person?
It's obvious he disagrees with everything said here even though he was the one who produced a squib load, not us.

May I suggest you leave him to his own devices now that he's been warned. Your job is more than done here, it's all up to him now not to hurt himself or someone near him.

 

[howlnmad]

PRICELESS! Permission to use this in the future!

You go ahead and use it anytime you want. I'm glad somebody thought it humorus.

 

[carnaby]

You certainly knew before you started a new thread that if you had zero powder in the case, that would have been the cause of your squib…right?

Yes, obviously. I was asking if anyone, based on the evidence, could tell if this was a zero powder issue or if there was powder and I got the squib anyway. I'm inclined to think that there was powder in the case and that I got the squib for some other reason. The soot on the case is the giveaway, I think, but it may have been a much smaller charge than I intended. There's no way to know, I guess.

As to the nay-sayers of using loads such as these, the new AAC Blackout uses a very similar load. A 220 grain bullet over 11.2 grains of AA1680 in a .223 Rem case necked up to .30 cal. AA1680 is only a little faster than H322, and has higher density so the powder volume will be less.

 

[snuffy]

All the criticism aside, I'd like to see you achieve your goal. Whatever it is. The 6.8 SPC is a 30 Remington case shortened, necked down and blown out for maximum powder capacity. As such, it has much more case capacity than a .223. So you're comparing apples to horse apples. If you insist on using H-322, you're going to have to use MORE of it. If that results in supersonic velocity, then you'll HAVE to use a faster powder! That's as plain as I can make it.

To say nothing about a 160 nosler accubond @ 1200 fps. It won't expand at all, so it'll be like shooting a FMJ. If all you want is a hole in something, well that it will do. (If it will stabilize)! A keyholing, unstabilized bullet will NOT be accurate,,, at all! So, am I wasting my time even trying to help?

 

[carnaby]

Thanks snuffy.

I'm looking at using AA1680 which is faster than H322, or SR4759 which is both faster and significantly bulkier. Yes, I realize that the .223 case necked up using a .30 cal bullet isn't the same as what I'm doing, as the case capacity for the 300 BLK is less than mine.

True, the 160 Partition won't expand at subsonic velocity, but there's no alternative that I know of... nobody else makes a heavy .270 bullet.

 

[snuffy]

I'm looking at using AA1680 which is faster than H322, or SR4759 which is both faster and significantly bulkier.

NOW you're cooking with gas! The 4759 would give you a nearly full, or completely full case, but still be subsonic. I can't even begin to offer loading data, I doubt that any exists. The pressure curve drops off fast with 4759, so your port pressure might be too low to work the action.

Why are you stuck on the 160, and is it the accubond, or the partition. Your OP says accubond. There's a bunch of 150 grain bullets out there, if it were me, I'd go with the 150 SST from Hornaday, or the Nosler 150 ballistic tip. Both will open/expand at much lower velocities, and you're only giving up 10 grains of bullet mass.

You MAY have to go with the shortest 150 grainer out there to achieve both sub-sonic velocities AND stability. It's not just weight that's in the formula for stability, it's also length. That leaves out plastic tipped, boat tail bullets. Speer makes what they call a "deep curl" bullet. It's a plated bullet like the Federal fusion, since they both have the same corporate parent. Speer's gold-dot technology was used to produce the Federal fusion bullet. It is a flat based exposed lead point bullet. If it would expand @ 1200 FPS is anybodies guess.

Is 1-11 the standard twist for 6.8? Does anybody make a faster twist? You may HAVE to go that route.

 

[carnaby]

Your OP says accubond.

Right, I'm a doofus! I meant Partition.

Is 1-11 the standard twist for 6.8? Does anybody make a faster twist? You may HAVE to go that route.

Model 1 sells 6.8 with 1/9.5 twist, which may stabilize the 150/160. I understand all about twist and stability, that's not an issue for me at the moment.