What defines an "assault rifle?"

[Dionysusigma]

Judging from the title, it sounds like I've never heard of the Crime Bill or read any threads regarding the AWB or anything of that nature. The "Ban" says what it says, and defines what an assault rifle is, but I've heard old bolt-action rifles called "assault weapons," like the FR-8 "Cetmeton" and even the M44. I'm just wondering why these particular ones recieved that title and others like the Garand and k98 didn't.

 

[ny32182]

The original definition was a relatively compact rifle firing an intermediate rifle cartridge, with select fire capability, and the ability to accept signifigantly sized detachable magazines.

The brady bunch's definition changes depending on what gun they want banned this week.

 

[Stinkyshoe]

I don't give the gun grabbers work that much credit. Legally "assualt" means the fear of eminent battery. Nothing about a bayo lug or pistol grip make it more dangerous. It is all about control and tyranny.

 

[twoblink]

how an inanimate object got the word "assault" baffles me..

But basically anything Skunk calls "Tactical" the gov'ment calls "Assault". That means anything "black" and evil looking.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Okay, the basic ideas coming out of the Second World War were:

-A select fire rifle
-Shorter overall length than the standard-issue rifle
-Firing an intermediate cartridge


Okay, now we've had great huge arguments over semantics before. An "intermediate" cartridge is defined as being more powerful than a pistol cartridge, but smaller (and resultantly less powerful) than a full-power military rifle cartridge. .300 Win Mag is not a typical military rifle cartridge. Neither is .338 Lapua or 7mm Rem Mag. 7.62x51mm, 7.62x54mmR, 7.92mm Mauser, and 7.5mm French are all considered to be "full power" military rifle cartridges, being used in both rifles and machine guns.

By comparison, the 7.92mm Kurtz, 7.62x39mm, 5.56x45mm, and 5.45x39mm are "intermediate" catridges. They're less powerful, but the idea is to allow controllable fully automatic fire. The ammo is lighter, and you can carry more, but originally it was expected you'd need more since the assault rifle was originally thought of as a sort of long-ranged submachine gun, with hit probability increased by shooters using burst fire.

By this definition, the HK G3, FN FAL, and M14 are not technically "assault rifles", since they did not fire intermediate cartridges, even though they're select-fire. The M16, AK-47, and STG-44 ARE technically "assault rifles".

These are, of course, just basic definitions. You can call your rifle whatever you want.

 

[Black Majik]

In California if the rifle is Black its almost an assault rifle.

A few other things such as threaded barrel (wouldn't you know it a P22 is illegal, damn California!), pistol grip & detachable magazine, pistol gripped autoloader shotgun w/ a ext. mag. tube... blah blah...

California wants all guns to be assault rifles.

 

[TCD]

my defintion


NONE!!!


HA! Take that you gun grabbers!

 

[StuporDave]

Soon it will be "any gun that fires by pulling a trigger"


Read a definition of assault weapons recently that included "any rifle or pistol that includes..........a pistol grip!" So now _all_ hand guns are considered assault weapons by these folks. (I think it was the Brady Bunch)

Dave

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

Forgive me for not doing the research, but I have an appointment and am rushed for time. I'll look it up later, but for now I think the Brady Bill has some ridiculous definition like any two of three physical characteristics--pistol grip, forward hand grip, and magazine extending down below the furniture. My PC9 has one characteristic--extended magazine.

One of the major failings of the Liberal philosophy that arose in the 1970s and 1980s was a belief that by controlling the symbolism, one could control the future. This is what gave rise to they tyranny of "politically correct speech"--control the language people use and you control the way they think--and it also guided the creation of the Brady Bill. The assault weapons ban was nothing but an attack on the symbolic appearance of a gun. It had little substance regarding the function of a gun. For example, one of the finest assault rifles ever built is the Marlin lever action--fast, quick handling, powerful, and fires every time. But it doesn't have any of the three symbolic physical attributes addressed in the Brady Bill.

I can hardly wait to see what Feinstein's "Anti Sniper Rifle" bill looks like. Feinstein is perhaps the most perfect example of the control-through-symbolism I describe above.

 

[ReadyontheRight]

Even in the few posts of this thread, the gun-grabbers have acheived their aim of confusing the english language.

"Assault rifles" are select fire and capable of full-auto fire. You could not buy one of these before or after the 1994 AWB.

"Assault weapons" are whatever definition gun-grabbers can slip by to outlaw more guns.

Currently this definition is pistol grips, bayonet lugs and removable magazines. The definition will soon include autoloaders, scoped rifles, pump action rifles/shotguns, etc.

Please point out the difference to anyone who will listen.

Just think about the phrase "Assault Weapon". Can't that mean anything you use to defend yourself? From a Tommy gun to a Remington 870 to a baseball bat to a kitchen knife? The whole point of this phrase is to slowly make the entire idea of weapons unacceptable.

Let's take back our language.

 

[geekWithA.45]

In all seriousness:

Q: What defines an assault Rifle?
A: Legislators flipping through gun catalogs and selecting the ominous looking ones:

From the From the NRA's FAQ

“The term ‘assault weapon,’ has no precise definition in firearms reference works [and] seems to be an invention of gun control advocates dating back no farther than 1985.†(Criminologist Gary Kleck, Targeting Guns, 1997)

Before its appearance in legislation, “assault weapon†was an entirely slang term, originated by gun control supporters to refer to certain semi-automatic firearms that look like, but do not operate like, fully-automatic machineguns (which have been restricted since 1934 under the National Firearms Act).

Legislation followed Sugarmann’s strategy of deceiving the public by focusing on guns that looked like machineguns. That approach backfired, however, when a bill by Sen. Howard Metzenbaum (D-Ohio) proposed to ban the “Auto Rifle,†a firearm that existed only as a gun catalog misprint accompanying a photograph of a rifle that had the look Metzenbaum was after. During floor debate Metzenbaum admitted: “I do not know much about those specific weapons. . . .They look quite ominous. We have pictures of them.†(Congressional Record, Nov. 9, 1993)

Disgusted yet?

 

[444]

I believe I remember reading the definition of the term in the early to mid-eighties in the book "The Fighting Rifle" by Chuck Taylor. He defined the terms submachine gun, assult rifle, and battle rifle.

 

[twoblink]

Even when it's firing the same round..

A Browning BAR is ok (because it's brown) but an AR15 is not (because it's black)..

#1) How color of the gun effects the velocity of the bullet baffles even me.

#2) See? I knew the gun grabbers were racists.. they are just trying to oppress the BLACKS!!

 

[Tony Williams]

You can blame Hitler for the name. He was the one who decided to rename the MP.44 the 'Sturmgewehr', leading to the StG.44 designation. Assault rifle is a loose translation of Sturmgewehr (literally, 'storm rifle').

Max Popenker (of the guns.ru site) and I have just written a book - 'Assault Rifle' - on the history of the military rifle since WW2. Naturally we faced the definition problem. The way we have addressed it is as follows:

"The broadest definition likely to secure agreement is along the lines of: "a standard infantry rifle with selective fire". The phrase "standard infantry rifle" excludes such weapons as sub-machine guns (SMGs) or light machine guns (LMGs). Compared with a traditional SMG, an assault rifle fires more powerful cartridges, has a longer barrel and a much longer range. Compared with an LMG (which typically uses the same ammunition), it is lighter and is normally hand-held rather than fired from a bipod; it is also always magazine-fed rather than (sometimes) belt-fed. "Selective fire" means that it has the option of fully automatic fire; the weapon keeps firing for as long as the trigger is pressed, or the ammunition runs out. This therefore excludes those self-loading rifles which only offer semi-automatic fire (i.e. they fire only one shot for each press of the trigger) although it would include burst-fire weapons which fire a predetermined number of rounds – usually two or three – for each press of the trigger.

This broad definition has been used as the basis for this book. However, it has to be admitted that it is not perfect for three reasons. First, some weapons have been made in both semi-automatic and selective fire versions, with some nations choosing only the semi-auto version; for the sake of completeness, these have been included. Second, the term 'assault rifle' should arguably only be applied to those weapons which are capable of controlled fully-automatic fire from the shoulder. This would rule out those selective-fire rifles which chamber the traditional full-power (FP) 7.62 or 7.92 mm rifle and MG cartridges (currently, only the 7.62 x 51 NATO) because their recoil is too heavy to permit this: the muzzle rises rapidly under recoil so all shots after the first will tend to fly over the target. Using a narrower definition to specify "controlled automatic fire from the shoulder" would include only those weapons chambered for the less powerful 'intermediate' cartridges, so-called because they are intermediate in power between pistol / SMG and FP rifle rounds. However, some weapons have been made which can be chambered for either FP or intermediate rounds, so it has been decided (again for the sake of completeness) to include the FP rifles as well, while noting that they do not make satisfactory assault rifles. Finally, some very short-barrelled assault rifles have been produced to take over the role of the traditional SMG; these are also included, as apart from barrel length they are essentially the same weapons."

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and Discussion forum

 

[30Cal]

It's a term owned and defined by the media. It means any rifle (sometimes shotgun) that looks like it might shoot a lot of bullets. The big tip-offs are a detachable magazine, plastic stock and/or a thing at the end of the muzzle. They are also usually short. If there are a lot of rifles in one place (called a "stockpile" or "arsenal"), it is assumed without inspection that many if not all are assault rifles.

Ty

 

[Tony Williams]

The problems over the term'assault rifle' appear to be a purely American domestic issue. As seen from the UK (and I think the rest of Europe), the term is simply a description of a type of military weapon and doesn't include any 'political baggage'. That's the way it is used in our book.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and Discussion forum

 

[idd]

"Assault rifle" is a technical term from the firearms lexicon referring to a class of select-fire rifles which fire an "intermediate" cartridge. It is a translation of the German word "das Sturmgewehr" from "stürmen" (or "stuermen" if your computer cannot make the German u umlaut) which is a verb meaning "to storm" combined with "Gewehr" meaning rifle. (The Germans have a habit of making new words by simply combining lots of old words. Their word for "ceasefire negotiations" is "Waffenstillstandunterhandlungen.") There might be a little quibbling around the edges about whether a certain rifle fits into this category, but this definition is accepted by the designers, manufacturers, and buyers of rifles. "Assault rifle" has never included pistols or shotguns.

"Assault weapon" is a politico-legal word with no technical meaning which first mades it appearance in 1985. The gun controllers themselves cannot offer a clear and concise techincal meaning of the term. The US Congress took a vote in 1994 and decided by simple to define "assault weapon" at Title 18, Chapter 44, Section 921 of the US Code. which you can read here. http://www.awbansunset.com/whatis.html

Seven states have enacted bans against "assault weapons," with each state having its own definition. The states are California, Connecticut, New Jersey, Hawaii, New York, Massachusetts, and Maryland.

California's initial attempts to ban "assault weapons" was so poorly worded that local law enforcement had no idea what weapons were covered. California's current definition of "assault weapon" which you can read here. In 1990 the New Jersey legislature enacted an "assault weapon" ban that included low-power .22 rifles, and even BB guns. In response, Deputy Police Chief Joseph Constance of Trenton, New Jersey stated: "Assault weapons are used in an underwhelming .026 of 1 percent of crimes in New Jersey. This means that my officers are more likely to confront an escaped tiger from the local zoo than to confront an assault rifle in the hands of a drug-crazed killer on the streets." New Jersey gun owners found out that many rifles or carbines designed to accept a detachable magazine of more than 15 rounds, owners of shotguns which could hold over six rounds, and owners of handguns which were designed to accept a magazine over 17 rounds learned that they owned "assault weapons."

It appears that when gun control advocates use the term "assault weapon," it means just about any weapon that looks mean. The lack of technical definition makes “assault weapon†an elastic category that can expand or contract faster than Oprah's waistline. A case in point is the Johns Hopkins University Center for Gun Policy and Research, which specializes in this type of pseudo-science. See their Factsheet: Assault Weapons. Also, check out this propaganda from the Educational Fund to Stop Gun Violence. These people state that "any gun with the ability to accept a detachable magazine satisfies the 'high capacity' component of the 'assault weapon' definition."

"Assault weapon" is like another propaganda word, "gateway drug."

For more info, see http://www.armedfemalesofamerica.com/sightingin/AWresources.htm

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

Tony, would you expect anything less stupid from a bunch of half wits living in a puritanical nanny state? Look at how childish was our national reaction to seeing a teat on the Superbowl! If we are that afraid of a teat, a device that provides nourishment for infants, imagine how terrified we are of weapons that look scary. I'm afraid your Mr. Orwell had it right--every country gets the government it deserves.

 

[Tony Williams]

Hey, that's fighting talk - I claim that the UK is MUCH more of a nanny state than the USA!

This might be drifting just a bit off-topic, but the comments on the Superbowl incident in the British press pointed out the absurdity of the situation; the song-and-dance routine (which I didn't see) was I gather explicitly sexual, with simulated intercourse etc, but attracted no comment - until that breast appeared! People tend to get more illogical and irrational about sex than anything else.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion
forum

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

Anytime you have elected officials defining anything, you are going to get stupidity. It doesn't matter if it is the definition of "assault rifle" or the definition of "obscenity." Jack Nicholson once said, "Kiss a tit on screen, it is pornography. Cut the tit off and it is family entertainment." Sounds a bit like the assault weapon ban, doesn't it?