What do you consider an improvised weapon?

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Roadwild17

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Its late at night and you hear something, you grab your go-to gun and go to check it out. You notice a broken window so you call 911 and give them your info. You continue to look around and walk into your kitchen/dinging room where you find the intruder. He grabs something and you have to decide to shoot or not. At what point does what he grab constitute a weapon which would require you use deadly force?

Pot/pan
coffee pot
kitchen chair
that kinda stuff?
 
It is not really about the item it is whether or not you are truely in fear of your life. Dude could be a 7ft tall Conan the Speech Impaired with NO weapons and you may be in fear for your life. Could be a tiny dude going into some kind of martial arts moves with no weapon and you could be in fear for your life.

Conversely it could be a broken down crack head weighing 90 pounds with an iron skillet in his hands. This may not pose a threat to some folks others may be in fear for their life.

It not a simple equation, which is exactly why we cannot take the subject lightly.(Not suggesting you were).

Chris
 
Anything and everything, even a pillow, can be turned into a weapon. It's really more based on intent and fear of loss of life/bodily harm.
 
i realize that some states have some whacky laws regarding home and self defense but in az it wouldn't matter whether he was armed let alone with what. the fact that he broke into your home demonstrates an extreme disregard for his own life as well as yours and you would be justified in shooting him. that said™, most of us would prefer not to shoot if we don't have to so it comes down to what was said above - if you feel threatened shoot, if not you had better proceed with extreme caution.
 
Any thing in his hands, up to and including a closed fist as there can be a knife screwdriver etc. you cannot see clearly. Same as the police would do.
 
My martial arts training states that anything sharp, solid, flexible, chemical, or capable of launching a projectile with considerable force can be considered a weapon. If your going to fire on someone for an improvised weapon make certain you can articulate why you feared for your life as a result of that item being used.
 
Presence of a deadly weapon isnt required to claim self defense. Since people can kill with hands or feet, you simply have to show that the attacker in question was of sufficient might that he presented a threat to your life.

Honestly there arent many situations where I will cut an attacker slack. The last thing I want is for some pipsqueak to kick me in the nuts and take my gun because I assumed he was harmless. If the guy attacks (armed or not), he gets shot.
 
You continue to look around and walk into your kitchen/dinging room where you find the intruder. He grabs something
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As Mr. Intrudrer is illegally inside my house (busted window for entry) late at night, he is committing burglary in the nighttime, a major felony in my state. Many people who commit burglary in the nighttime do not want to end up in prison.

Mr. Intruder did not have a weapon until I showed up where he was. In my house, with me involved, anything in his hand(s) is a threat of grevious bodily injury or death. Why else would he pick up something to use as a weapon? Your situation (age, health, etc.) may give a different answer.

Now, I'm going to ask the $64K question - WHY ARE YOU WALKING AROUND THE HOUSE LOOKING FOR BUMPS IN THE NIGHT? You have already called 911 and are awaiting the arrival of the police. Pending their arrival Mr. Intruder is not in the part of the house where you were when you heard the bump in the night.

When the cops roll up, they are probably hoping that you are still on the line with Dispatch, who is telling them where you are, so they can figure out that anyone not there is probably a bad guy. You are now off the phone, gun in hand, and pointing it at somebody who is holding a kitchen appliance in their hand. Guess which one looks most threatening to the arriving cops. Guess what their response is going to be to seeing A GUN?

Sorry for the drift, but S&T is a total package, not just asking if the BG grabs someting like a frying pan can you shoot him? The question, based on going to investigate that bump in the night after calling 911, seems to suggerst that your S&T for home intruder (as opposed to bust-down-the-door-come-in-yelling-and-shooting home invasion) may need some more consideration.

stay safe.

skidmark
 
anything he can strike me with or throw at me, that includes his fists, is a weapon. I could be a plastic water bottle or a whoopie cushion it doesn't matter, if it can strike or be thrown at me it is a weapon in the hands of someone who means to do me harm. Some items can directly hurt me like a club. Some simply not be capable of much like a water bottle or a pillow. But these are dangerous as well. Suppose attacker has a pillow and throws it in your face, for that second or two you are distracted he has a huge advantage.

Now as to shooting specifically, that doesn't go to weapon but rather to fear of life. If I have a gun and someone means to do harm to me or mine then they are getting shot. Do I want to shoot someone? No of course not hope I never have to, but I also wont hesitate on shooting someone about to harm myself or my loved ones. That is my personal feeling and laws in various places are different. Sometimes it has to fit a very specific list to be legal in shooting, in some places it comes 100% to your own personal level of fear, and in others it goes to what the average person in mind and body would fear. In other words in these areas if they consider the average person a 6 foot male in good shape and you happen to be 5'1 and a little to fond of the krispy kream shop you could be screwed legally if you shoot a scrawny low life their "average" person could defend themselves against.
 
Now, I'm going to ask the $64K question - WHY ARE YOU WALKING AROUND THE HOUSE LOOKING FOR BUMPS IN THE NIGHT? You have already called 911 and are awaiting the arrival of the police. Pending their arrival Mr. Intruder is not in the part of the house where you were when you heard the bump in the night.
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Plenty of reasons.

You live in the middle of no where and by the time the cops get there the thief/thieves will have cleared out your home with the exception of your bedroom.

You have children, room mates, elderly parents, etc and you staying in your room on the phone with 911 isn't an option.

The cops are tired of coming to your house cause you call them every time the cat hops on the counter and knocks something over and you call them without investigating first.

There are plenty of reasons to no hunker down on the phone. If you live alone and the absolute only thing that could have made a particular noise is a burglar perhaps, but many of us don't live in such situations.

For instance my disabled mother lives with me. If I hear someone break a window and come into my house should I hunker down in my room on the phone with 911 and hope I don't hear her scream or go to investigate first and make sure the intruder never has the chance to hurt her because he comes into contact with me first? The choice is yours, I will take the option of putting myself into harms way because I have others who require protection in such an instance.

The best thing to do is to call 911 and give them a good description of yourself as well as the fact you have a gun. Make sure they tell this to the police officers. Even better is to have a headset on your phone so that you can stay in communication with the operator and through them the police.
 
Lupinus -

I agree with your responses in your scenario, but it changes some of the info from the original post. Original scenario was:
Its late at night and you hear something, you grab your go-to gun and go to check it out. You notice a broken window so you call 911 and give them your info. You continue to look around and walk into your kitchen/dinging room where you find the intruder.
Click to expand...

In that case I question the appropriateness of the actions, especially the "walk into your kitchen/dining room" as opposed to "spot the intruder from concealment as you check out the kitchen/dining room." "Walk into" is just too casual for me to accept as sound behavior when dealing with a probable intrude of unknown intent.

Further, if you have "isolated" the intruder from the rest of your family, why go looking for him, instead of setting up a choke point? In case you ask, yes I have had my stuff taken, and in spite of all the heavy "replacement cost" homeowner's insurance premiums it still cost me a lot out of pocket. It ended up a lot less expensive than the emotional and legal fees others have told about after a purely rightuous shooting. And yes, I was more than a biy PO'd about the whole thing.

Maybe we just look at self defense differently. I am not going to roll over and let anybody cause me "grievious bodily harm or death" if I can do anything to prevent that, but I am not inclined to go looking for intruders who may or may not excalate their actions to the point of threatening my personal safety or acting so as to compromise my ability to protect my family.

That's why I say that S&T is a total package deal. If the objective is to protect family, then act to do that. If the objective is to apprehend the intruder, then you are going to need a whole different set of S&T. I just never understood that there was any need to try to apprehend the intruder because the original scenario did not indicate that.

So again, if you can isolate the intruder from the rest of the household, why go looking? By process of elimination (knowing where is is not, you can guess where he is and relay that info to the cops if and when they arrive, as well as encouraging others to stay away from the suspected areas.

Just my thoughts, and why I have them. If you would care to explain why you feel it necessary to "walk into the kitchen/dining room" when looking for an intruder, I'll listen.

stay safe.

skidmark
 
The Black Mind

The mind sets that LE's use are the White, Yellow, Red and Black, because your situation insists that you use the Black mind that is the only one I will explain. The Black mind means that the attacker has passed their own safty zone and has stepped into lethal ground, you have the right to kill them be they friend, family or contact, whatever that means. No one has the right to invade your space, sorry if thats already been mentioned. Kill the bastard before he picks up the frying pan.
 
Look up the law

Its late at night and you hear something, you grab your go-to gun and go to check it out. You notice a broken window so you call 911 and give them your info. You continue to look around and walk into your kitchen/dinging room where you find the intruder. He grabs something and you have to decide to shoot or not. At what point does what he grab constitute a weapon which would require you use deadly force?
Click to expand...

You're asking the wrong question. You should be asking what the law says in the state you live. For example, here in Georgia, the law states that deadly force is justified in a situation in which a reasonable would be in fear of his/her life. I imagine all the other states has a similar law, although there may be some that require the defender be backed into the proverbial corner.
 
I don't get the improvised weapon bit. I have a couple that are mainly fun to play with, but for things that go bump in the night I have a shotgun, a carbine, and a very nice katana all within arm's reach of my bed.

No frying pans for me. Bang or chop, most likely the former.
 
the problem with Cowboy Action Shooting...

is if someone is standing there holding a cast Iron frying pan, our first instinct is to shoot it and hear the "Ding" :neener:
 
To awnser the original question; Anything and everything can be used as a weapon. I could easily use a bent paper clip to pierce your heart or blind you. it's all a matter of intent. You could use a peice of paper to choke somebody, a car to run someone down, or a golf club to beat somebody to death. It's more about intent of posession of the object, then the object. Heck, a feather crammed down your trachea will choke you, and a sponge in your espohagus will starve or gag you (if it binds and isn't passed through the digestive system). Heck, I could inject a tube of clear silicone in your colon. That would eventually kill you if it didn't get pulled out. I could also force 150Ft/Lbs of air up your colon and rupture your large intestine, causing massive internal bleeding. I could also sufforcate you by tying a plastic bag with a bug bomb in it over your head.

Anything can be a weapon, it's just a matter of inginuity and intent. If somebody wants you dead bad enough, they will find a way regardless of what they have in thier hands. You better be ready to imploy lethal force if required, you never know when you may need to use it.
 
If it looks like a weapon..... it's a weapon.

If it doesn't look like a weapon.... it did a mintue ago:evil: .
 
So yall are saying, if someone is in your house (broke in) and is holding anything in there hand shoot and consider it a Imp. Wep.?
 
+1 on intent matters. A 5', 90 lb woman running at me with a pillow is exponentially more dangerous than a 7' 300 lb dude running away from me holding a knife.
 
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