So you hear a noise, now what?

[beatledog7]

Multiple layers of defense--electronics, animals, firearms, etc.--are all good tools that can be used to support one's good judgement and decision-making skills. That's all they are.

Use good judgment, and make a good decision. Going to investigate the bump in the night puts the investigator at far greater risk than holing up behind cover does. If one really does believe in using a firearm as a last resort, one does not go looking for the perp.

 

[Frank Ettin]

re: "solo house clearing is generally a pretty bad idea"

One of the problems, as I see it, is that there are MANY things that can occur in the night that are NOT due to an intruder. If you hear a window breaking and movement or voices downstairs, it probably calls for taking up a defensive position and calling 911. But absent obvious signs of an intruder, what do you do when your hear strange noises in the night? Do you call the cops for ALL those situations? It won't take many calls before they've got your number -- literally and figuratively.

So how do you determine WHAT it is? Is it a pet getting into something it shouldn't? Is it the wind blowing through a window that blew something over? Did a bat get into the house? (This has happened to us a few times.) You can't write it off as "probably nothing" and you can't call the cops every time you hear a noise. So it would seem to me that there definitely ARE times when you need to check out the situation in a prudent manner....

The reason solo house clearing is a bad idea is that if there is an intruder who is willing to do you harm you will be at a significant tactical disadvantage. That you might be uncertain about whether or not there is an intruder doesn't change that basic reality.

So at what level of certainty or uncertainty do you risk your safety, and the safety of your family, to go and check on an unknown noise? How can you quantify your level of certainty or uncertainty, and what can you do to reduce your uncertainty without endangering yourself?

One thing you can do is not rush out. Secure your position, listen and wait. Also, look out windows to the extent you can do so without exposing yourself. Try to learn about and understand the situation before committing.

As far as checking out the situation in a prudent manner, how do you plan to do that? What do you know about the prudent manner of checking out a house in which there might be an intruder? What training have you had in doing that?

 

[Fred Fuller]

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2013/05/28/police-shoot-kill-grandfather-while-responding-to-burglary-call/

Police Shoot & Kill Grandfather While Responding To Burglary Call
May 28, 2013 4:59 PM

FORT WORTH (CBSDFW.COM) – A grandfather checking on his neighbor is shot and killed by Fort Worth police. The shots rang out early Tuesday morning near Woodhaven Country Club, in east Fort Worth.

Those close to the family say the victim lived nearby and heard his neighbor’s burglar alarm. Neighbor Jerry Wayne Waller then apparently went outside to see what was going on.

The 72-year-old man didn’t even make it to the house across the street before he was shot. He died on his own property.
...

The elderly man, who was armed at the time, was shot and killed in his own driveway by police responding to a burglary call. “We heard five shots,” Haskin recalled. They were just rapid fire one after the other.”
/////snip

 

[WardenWolf]

Correction: Trigger-happy cops MURDER armed citizen in his own driveway.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by Wardenwolf: Correction: Trigger-happy cops MURDER armed citizen in his own driveway.

We really do not need to get into a discussion of that unsupported accusation.

The point is, first responders arriving at the scene of a reported crime may well, if they see a person with gun in hand, have reason to believe that the person constitutes an imminent danger and that the use of deadly force is immediately necessary.

That is more likely to happen when the victim elects to go outside armed and to approach the scene. As tragic as it is, it is certainly not a prudent course of action, and that's an understatement.

It has also happened to at least one defender inside his own home.

There are at least two lessons to be gained from this:

1. One does not want to have a gun in one's hand, indoors or out, when police officers respond to a report of a crime.
2. Staying in a defensible redoubt is a better idea, for more reasons than one.

 

[Godsgunman]

Just ask Papa Joe, he seems to have the right solution. Load up the old shottie and blast away.
In reality though my house makes lots of noises and I can tell the normal ones from the abnormal ones. I've only had one or two instances where I deemed it necessary to do more than sit quietly and listen for another sound. In both instances it was a false alarm but I did jump out of bed and grab the gun from the bedside safe. The first one was quite jarring when the cabinet in the bathroom decided to fall off the wall at 2 in the morning. You better believe that got the ol' heart a pumpin. The second was also at about 2 in the morning being awoken by loud pounding on the front door. I grab the gun and slowly make my way toward the door and catch a glimpse out the window that its 2 cops banging on the door. I quickly hand the gun to my wife and tell her to take it to the bedroom and I answer the door (not to wise to open the door to cops while holding a gun). Anyways they had the wrong house and were looking for my neighbors kid, go figure the cops get the wrong address at 2 in the morning .
Sorry for the long windedness, but basically if something goes "bump" in the night I usually sit tight and wait for an indicator of something out of the ordinary. I have dogs also to help alert me. If it ever comes to it the guns and phone are within arms reach.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

If one really does believe in using a firearm as a last resort, one does not go looking for the perp.

That is the clear cut statement of defense V. offense I have ever read.

I have about 5 thousand dollars in three roll aways in the garage, other than that there's really nothing in my house worth stealing anyway

 

[Trunk Monkey]

What do you know about the prudent manner of checking out a house in which there might be an intruder? What training have you had in doing that?

Quite a bit actually. Although I will concede that most of my training was military and involved throwing an m26 grenade into the room before entering it.

Do you somehow feel that only the moderation staff here is qualified to clear a house?

 

[Frank Ettin]

...Do you somehow feel that only the moderation staff here is qualified to clear a house?

My question was directed to Mach.87 who suggested that, "...there definitely ARE times when you need to check out the situation in a prudent manner...." I believe that was clear from the context, but accepting that would have spoiled your fun.

In any case, you are not one of those participating in this thread who appear to be looking for rationalizations to go out looking for a bad guy. There are, however, a number of members here, beside staff, who wouldn't be so anxious. That is usually a sign, in the context of this subject, of having had some training.

...Although I will concede that most of my training was military and involved throwing an m26 grenade into the room before entering it....

Which would not be a reasonable option in one's home, or in most civilian applications for that matter.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Do you somehow feel that only the moderation staff here is qualified to clear a house?

Interesting attitude.

I won't speak for anyone else on staff, but I can assure you I'm qualified to clear THIS house...

 

[1911Tuner]

With 16 dogs in the house all night, and two in the back lot...I'll probably never hear a noise in the house that doesn't belong there.
Those dogs know that somebody is approaching the property before they get within sight of it.

I live on a private road and the house is about a hundred yards from the main road. During daylight hours when the Huskies are out, they know a car is on the way before the rear wheels leave the pavement.

So, if somebody has the nerve to enter the house with 16 fully alerted dogs makin' the announcement...including two Pitbulls and a Pit-Lab mix...he's probably insane or suicidal. He'll also meet with some...resistance.

The sign says:

I have two Pitbulls and a shotgun. Are you real sure you wanna do this?

 

[Trunk Monkey]

there definitely ARE times when you need to check out the situation in a prudent mann

I’m sorry my post offended you but that really is how it read to me. Like you were saying that you were all that and he wasn't. unfortunately I get that vibe from a few of the staff here but I don't think this is the time or place to address that issue

but on the other issue I think he’s right, There definetely are times good idea or not that you do have to go "clear the house". Not everyone bought their current house with defense in mind, sometimes there are other family members on different floors of the house. What then?

You can't make a blanket statement either way.

 

[Kleanbore]

Originally Posted by Trunk Monkey: ...Do you somehow feel that only the moderation staff here is qualified to clear a house?

There are some people among staff here who have undertaken FoF training, and some who have not. There are members who are not part of the staff who have been trained in house clearing and who have had the professional duty to do so whanever the need arose.

To my knowledge, none of them would choose to do so unless it were necessary or a matter of duty, and none of them would do so alone except under conditions of dire need.

Necessity would come about in the event that a family member were at risk. That's something to be considered when deciding who sleeps where.

It isn't a matter of being "qualified"--it is simple a matter of knowing better.

It is one of those things that we learn from the experiences, actual and simulated, of others.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Hey guys I shot my mouth off when I shouldn't have sorry

 

[herrwalther]

Hey guys I shot my mouth off when I shouldn't have sorry

Enough people have jumped down your throat and I won't add to it but rather comment.

Clearing a house or any structure with a team is dangerous. That is why military and police drill it any chance they can, with different people/positions/obstacles and as many variables as they can manage. Clearing a building by yourself is statistically 4x harder (at least with a 4 man breach team.) Nevertheless there are times where clearing or at least checking out something in your own home is a mitigated risk. Because face it, you can't call 911 every time you hear a floorboard squeak However there are steps you can take as a homeowner to reduce the risks:

1) Outside/inside security- Whether that is large dogs, motion activated lights, trip wires hooked up to claymore mines, a moat and drawbridge etc. This will make the house look like a hard target to thwart your casual criminal. It will also give you advance warning if something is amiss.
2) You know the layout of your home=home court advantage. Unless you walk through your house blindfolded, you will know the layout of your dwelling better than they will. Use it to your advantage. Don't try to put booby traps down Home Alone style but arrange furniture to make it harder for someone to lift up your TV and walk out with it.
3) Practice. Practice. Practice. You know your home. Walk around with the mind of a criminal. What will they try to grab first? Where will they hid if they hear you come home/down the stairs? Work those thoughts into your training when clearing your house. Check corners, behind large furniture etc. Speed and stealth is the key.

 

[bikerdoc]

Hey guys I shot my mouth off when I shouldn't have sorry

Kudos TM. Shows character to admit that. I admire that.

 

[Frank Ettin]

TM -- water under the bridge.

And just to clarify, yes, I (and I believe many of us) do understand that sometimes it may be necessary to go for a look, e. g., when innocents aren't accounted for. I'm not sure that makes it a good idea, but it does make it necessary. (ETA: I acknowledged the possible necessity in post 59.)

But that does take us back to the basic reality that it's a pretty dangerous undertaking. And managing it effectively and in a manner calculated to try to reduce the risk is a skill that doesn't necessarily come naturally. So some training is a good idea.

Anyone who thinks he might have to go for a look sometime when there might actually be an intruder might want to think about what he knows about the process and how he plans to do it. And I can attest from personal experience that going through the exercise multiple times with a qualified instructor looking over your shoulder and critiquing your actions is a real eye opener.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Anyone who thinks he might have to go for a look sometime when there might actually be an intruder might want to think about what he knows about the process and how he plans to do it.

In the event that there actually WAS a threat in my house(a 3 tier split level)I would be faced with the prospect of an intruder attacking my 25 year old daughter,whose bedroom is on the lowest level. There is NO discussion,I AM going down there. My wife would at that time have 2 of our grand children with her in our bedroom where the gunsafe and ammo is. BTW,we live a minimum of 20 minutes from the nearest LEO

 

[Frank Ettin]

Anyone who thinks he might have to go for a look sometime when there might actually be an intruder might want to think about what he knows about the process and how he plans to do it.

In the event that there actually WAS a threat in my house(a 3 tier split level)I would be faced with the prospect of an intruder attacking my 25 year old daughter,whose bedroom is on the lowest level. There is NO discussion,I AM going down there. ....

Understood. There would be nothing else you could do.

That still doesn't change the basic reality that you will be at a considerable tactical disadvantage. So have you considered what you actually know about house clearing and how you know it?

 

[jimmyraythomason]

That still doesn't change the basic reality that you will be at a considerable tactical disadvantage

A definite disadvantage but unless I go out a 3rd level window I HAVE to go down the stairs.

So have you considered what you actually know about house clearing and how you know it?

What is to consider? I know that my daughter is downstairs alone with an intruder....only one course of action to take.

 

[Frank Ettin]

So have you considered what you actually know about house clearing and how you know it?

What is to consider? I know that my daughter is downstairs alone with an intruder....only one course of action to take.

Yes, but there are proper ways to go about it. Doing it right can increase your chances of survival and success. It will do your daughter no good if the intruder ambushes you and takes you out of the fight.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

I definitely wouldn’t want to try to clear a house on my own (unless I really could use the M26) and I don’t want anyone to think I’m advocating it I just know that sometimes you would have to.

One thing I notice that people aren’t talking about in this thread that is kind of at the other end of the spectrum is making it hard to get into your house to begin with. In my house we don’t sleep with the widows open and all three doors are physically barred from opening when we’re at home. We have lights along the front of the house and two dogs that are worthless as guard dogs but will alert us that someone is there.

I want to take advantage of any layer of defense I can place between me and having to clear my house.

And a final note about leaving windows open. I used to live in a third story apartment and I figured I was safe from break ins so I left my windows open. I locked my self out one day and while I was trying to figure out how to get back in with out paying the lock out fee the manager charged I told my neighbor what was up; He said “no problem” and went up the side of the building in less time than it took you to read this paragraph. I never went to sleep with an open window again

 

[jimmyraythomason]

if the intruder ambushes you and takes you out of the fight.

True but what good would it do if I never got into the "fight"? In my case,in this situation,there are only 2 choices. Either cower at at the top of the stairs or go to my daughter's aid. I know what I would do.

 

[AOK]

I would only clear the house if I absolutely had to such as if somehow the intruder was between my family and I OR if I was confident there is no threat in the house. Outside of that my family goes into a safe room and I move into a stronghold position and wait. We all have our own preplanned assigned duties.

 

[Godsgunman]

Jimmy, obviously in your situation your daughter is your main concern being on the first level. Is she properly trained with a firearm? Does she have easy access to one in her room? If not I would suggest that getting her trained in self defense and firearm tactics would be the first thing. Obviously I don't know your or her personal situation and whether she is physically able to do such things, its just a suggestion. It just makes sense that she should be able to protect herself first then have you as backup if TSHTF.