What do you know about the .380?

[Stinkyshoe]

I was just window shopping the other day. How does a .380 compare to other calibers? Is it very accurate in a small frame auto? What do you know about Makarov? Does Glock make a .380? What other companies out there make a .380? Would you carry one as a kitgun for survival/hiking? What would you use one for?
Thanks
Ss

 

[Matthew_Q]

.380 has been extremely accurate in the pistols I've fired it from (PPK/s and Bersa Thunder).

It's usually considered inadequate for self defense by most, but I say, if the gun is comfortable to carry, which will make you carry it more, then .380 is a good round.

None of the Naysayers will stand up to be shot by one just to prove how poor they are... go figure....

I'd only carry a .380, because my .45 is too big/heavy for my dress at any particular time. For plinking, most of the small, light pistols have pretty stout recoil, so they're not comfortable to shoot a lot. As for hiking and being out in nature.... if you're going to encounter anything larger than a bunny rabbit, you will want something bigger. I'd be carrying my .357 with some fullhouse magnum loads.

 

[MonkeyMan]

I used to carry a Mauser HSC in .380 and never felt under-gunned. After all, a hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44.

I seem to recall that Glock does make a .380 but it's not imported to the USA for whatever reason.

 

[mete]

It's significantly better than the 22/25/32 but no nearly as good as the 9mm. The cartridge was introduced 90 years ago and has been made in many guns. At this point the Sig is considered the best. It has been said that the 9mm is twice as effective as the 380 and having shot animals with both I would agree. As for a carry gun it is considered minimum cartridge but there are now a number of good , small , light 9s such as the polymer 9mm Kahr that make the 380 obsolete.

 

[Selfdfenz]

I have the Bersa. My first 380.
Great firearm for the $.

Before I got this pistol I always considered the 380 a non-starter for SD.
Too small a bullet, too slow, not enough stopping power etc.

The Bersa is accurate, dependable and pretty easy to carry. Speer GDs clock 1000 fps over my chronograph.

Having and shooting the caliber has changed my opinion. I don't feel under-gunned and since it is so easy to carry it's now my "everywhere".
Rather have one of my nines or one of the 45s on board but size of the 380 is hard to beat. If something happens to this gun I'll get another just like it.
JMHO

S-

 

[Matthew_Q]

I'd second the Bersa vote. I've got a duo tone Bersa Thunder. ABSOLUTELY reliable. Only have about 300 rounds out of it, but it feeds anything I give it. And it's pretty accurate, too.

And it only cost 200 smackers. Talk about bang for the buck!

 

[longeyes]

Why would you want a .380 if you could get, say, a Glock 26 in 9mm?

 

[J. Parker]

Exactly longeyes. If you can get ALOT more performance out of the same size pistol then what is the niche' of the 380/9X18 mak pistol? IMO, they are simply "fun guns". I've owned a half dozen Makarov's, a CZ83, a Browning BDA 380, a Walther PPK just to name a few.
I just couldn't bring myself to carry them for serious self-defense. There are alot of 9mm's out there that are lightweight, reliable and ALOT more potent than a 380 type pistol. I'd go with a 9mm over a 380/9X18 mak any day. Just my thoughts, John

 

[CZF]

My Glock 26 always feels like it is going to fly from my hands.
I much prefer the slightly larger- Cocked N Locked CZ83 for
my summer gun. 12-13 shots of Hornady XTPs. No powerhouse,
but i feel i gives good firepower. Hitting the target with this .380
is pretty easy due to the blocky PT Nites and low recoil.

The CZ83 is both big and heavy for a .380. That helps with recoil
control, and accuracy. Everyone raves about how smooth and light
the triggers are. I've never heard of someone wanting a trigger
job on the 83, nor have i heard of any broken CZ83s.

As for power. A CZ83 stoked with a load like Cor-Bon +P is not a
bad idea. The 9mm Makarov has a slight velocity edge over .380
ball ammo. I found the CZ83 MAK to have quite sharp recoil.

Reliability:The CZ83 was designed as a military pistol (vz82) and
is one reliable little gun. I know of one S. American police force
that uses the CZ83.

Concealment: While large for a .380. With a proper holster
like the HBE Switch pancake. The 83 tucks away nicely. Gives
you a service sized grip to grasp onto when drawing. You
are not clawing for a mini gun when you need the gun in
a hurry.

As for the .380 being obsolete? I know that a lot of folks carry the
neat little Bersa and other .380s.

CZ has the know how-to make a CZ83 sized mini 9mm. The RAMI
is still a few years away. Until then i'm happy with my slick '83.

 

[Marko Kloos]

There are many neat guns chambered for .380. The upsurge of pocket 9mm pistols has made many of the blowback .380s look too big and underpowered by comparison, but I still have a soft spot for many of them. The Beretta 84 & 85, Browning BDA, CZ-83, Walther PPK, and SIG P230/232 are among the classics of small defensive pistol design. I kind of see them as semi-auto Detective Specials, offering more than enough defensive capability for 90% of the armed citizenry out there.

I think that .380 is a plenty effective defensive caliber when used with premium hollowpoint ammo. A .380 stoked with Golden Sabers or Cor-Bons is a capable little gun, and the pistols in that caliber are often easier to shoot (and hit with) than some of the micro Nines.

I've started using my SIG P232 as a summer carry gun. The gun weighs 16 ounces, the slide is so flat that it's virtually unnoticeable in a thin IWB rig, and the gun itself has excellent sights, reliability, and accuracy.

 

[coldshot03/04]

I have the Russian Makarov in 380acp. I have had it a little over a year. This thing does not malfunction period. At least mine hasnt. I quit counting rds after 1000. It has served me well as an everyday carry gun. Mine has adjustable rear sights and is very accurate. The only gripe that I have about the Mak is the sights to small for me to see and the rear sight screw comes loose when firing (No big problem) Elmers glue in the screw hole fixed that. No other complaints whatsoever from me about the Mak or the 380acp. I feel well protected. http://makarov.com

 

[Dave R]

I did some empirical expansion testing on the .380 acp. Fancy word for shooting at bound wet newsprint.

Compared Remington .380 102gr. Golden Sabre against 9mm Win Silvertip.

The "wound channels" from the .380 were closer to the 9mm than I would have expected. I'd say 75% of the depth and breadth.

The .380acp stopped expanding after 5 layers of denim covering the newsprint. The 9mm stopped expanding after 7 layers of denim over the newsprint.

Made me feel the .380 is "good enough".

IMHO the Bersa is easier to conceal than a mini-Glock, and costs about half. You give up 3 rounds, and some power.

 

[gbelleh]

I really like the .380 round. It's a fun round to shoot, and it's easy to shoot quickly and accurately. My .380s are all great shooters and I wouldn't be too uncomfortable carrying one for self defense. Most .380s are easier to shoot quickly and accurately than most small 9mms.

 

[denfoote]

My Glock 26 always feels like it is going to fly from my hands.

What?? Huh????


You must either have really really big or really really small hands!!
I have small hands. The G17 frame is way to big for me. The G19 frame is more my size and the G26 fits just right!!
Or, you must have some infirmity that has weakened your hands. If this is indeed the case, then I apologize for inquiring!!

As touching the subject at hand, I prefer the 9x18mm round fired from the Pistolet Makarova platform, although I plan to aquire a P3AT as soon as they make their way out to the vast Sonoran desert!! :banghead:

 

[David4516]

"How does a .380 compare to other calibers?"

It is considered the weakest round that is still good for self defense. It is between 9mm and .32 ACP

"Is it very accurate in a small frame auto?"

Yes, because most .380 pistols are blow-back designs and have fixed barrels.

"What do you know about Makarov?"

The pistol or the caliber?

The 9mm Makarov round (aka 9X18 ) is basicly a souped up .380 with a slightly larger diameter bullet. It is not a "True" 9mm, "True" 9mm is .355 caliber. 9mm Makarov is .365 caliber. 9mm Makarov was designed to be the most powerful round that could be used safely in a small blowback pistol. It is not as good as 9mm Luger, but it sure beats .380 ACP. This is the offical round of the russian army, so it must be pretty good

The Makarov pistol itself is made in both .380 and 9mm Makarov. It kinda looks like a walther PP. The 'Mak' is, in my humble opinion, the MOST RELIABLE compact sized semi auto pistol money can buy. I have NEVER seen one jam or have any failure of any kind. I've had a few thosand round thur my Makarov (it's in 9mm Makarov), without any problems whatsoever.

I use my Mak as my carry gun, because I trust it. I know that it will go 'bang' when I pull the trigger. For me, this trust factor is the most important thing when picking a gun for defense...

There are a few other nice things about the Mak. It is very affordable. You can get one for about $150, and you get alot of bang for your buck. It is also very thin, so it's easy to hide. I thought about getting a glock 26 or 27, untill I compared my dad's glock 27 to a Mak. The 2 guns are about the same size, except for the thickness. The Mak is much thinner. The Mak is also more dependable. I've seem the Glock jam a few times, twice in one day even


"What would you use one for?"

Carry. I also carry my Mak when I'm out camping or hiking, but with FMJs. Around town I use Hornady XTPs...

Most .380's are also pretty accurate, so they'd make good target pistols...

Also, due to the fairly low recoil, you could use a .380 to teach someone how to shoot...

 

[MikeJ]

As mentioned earlier, the .380 in many ways has been eclipsed by the subcompact 9mm's out there today. I own the Sig 230 and Browning BDA .380's and still think they are a couple of the neatest guns around but they aren't my first choice for personal protection. I do think they are adequate but I really prefer a 9mm for that little extra edge and the additional confidence the 9mm gives me. Both of my .380's are very accurate and I use them simply as fun range guns. Would I use one as a kit gun for survival/hiking? No, I use my Glock 23 loaded with 165 grain Remington Golden Sabers for that purpose. It is light weight and with a spare mag I've got 26 rounds readily available (hi-cap mags). If you want one just because you like it, then go for it but if you are seriously considering a semi-auto for defensive purposes I would suggest you step up to a 9mm. Just my .02 worth. Mike

 

[Sean Smith]

It is like 9x19, only less so.

 

[Mannlicher]

Stinky,

I know that when I carried my Pony Pocketlite, I always felt I was not carrying enough gun. Every single time I felt that there was Any chance of needing it, I felt that sinking feeling in the pit of my tummy, that it was just the wrong thing to carry. I traded it off for a Browning HP in .40

 

[Standing Wolf]

This is the offical round of the russian army, so it must be pretty good

Hmmmmm...! I can think of higher commendations for a round.

 

[Mannlicher]

This is the offical round of the russian army, so it must be pretty good "

Combat usage of the 9X18 was limited to shooting bound captives once behind the left ear. Hardly a recomendation for a fighting round.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Yeah nobody in the Balkans wars ever fired one in anger.

The fact remains that the 9mm Mak was the service pistol round throught the eastern block for a VERY long time, in use by police and military agencies. Some of those folks are now on our side. Please keep that inmind that just because we don't have the heroic newspaper clipping of Det. Sgt. Rodchenko dusting a shotgun armed perp off a second floor perch with a humble Makarov doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Ok back to the 380. Makarovs made in 380, in my opinion have a slight design flaw, namely the undercut chamber coupled with softer brass, rather than steel cases case excessive case bulging. they still work but throw thebrass away, you won't be reloading it. (personal experience w/Izmash model Mak) Using lead bullets the problem was even worse.

On the good side the angle of the feed ramp of the mak means it will just about feed any ammo you give it, from hardball to wide open HP's.

On the .380: Yeah I've carried a 380 as a camp gun/hiking gun, but i was more concerned about weight than "stopping power". An inexpensive but well made option to the PPK is the FEG Pa-63/AP-9. It was made in both 380 and 9mm mak and while its aboutthe same size overall as a mak it weighs less do to an aluminum alloy frame. I've had mine for years and years and its the ONLY auto I have that has NEVER jammed. I've killed an antelope with mine, though it took 3 shots.

I've told this story before, but suffice it to say unless you hit something in the vitals with a .380, don't expect it to stop. The .380 leaves a nasty looking cratering shallow wound when it hits heavy bone,(like a hip) may have enough force to break a smaller bone (say an arm bone) but may not exit the opposite side. A shot through the ribs will suffice, but again if it hits that bone it will not penetrate as far.

There are far better pistols available if you fear 'wildlife' but if its 2 legged predators that worry your experience a 380 might be just fine. Practice practice, practice.

On another note, the last time I thought I really NEEDED a pistol, the 380 was all I had available at a moment's notice. What I wanted was the 7th Cavalry. I'm sure the pistol would have done its job had I done mine.

 

[George Hill]

It's a short 9MM?

 

[coldshot03/04]

I have noticed no bulging in my 380acp Mak.

 

[Midiman]

Why would you want a .380 if you could get, say, a Glock 26 in 9mm?

Because a Glock 26 won't fit in your Levi's pocket. For that matter, neither will the smaller Kahr 9's.

 

[Clark]

The .380 is 21,500 psi registered with SAAMI, but American load books mostly stay lower ~12kpsi.

For me as a handloader, I know the brass of a rimless case will flow at ~65kpsi, and that will make more recoil than this shooter or recoil springs of a pocket pistol are up to.

The comming of the 6 ounce Kel-Tec P-3AT is a big event for .380.
A locked breech pistol that is so light it can be carried comfortably in the pocket without a holster will attreact many users. They have made ~200, but I have not got mine, yet.