What do you Load in your 45 acp for personal defense?

[A and O]

Thank You Wilburt.

I just spent 2 hrs. plus digesting info from the links and recommend everybody else to take the time and do the same.

That said, Gold Dots (Factory) have proven to be the most accurate in my XD40 and the Federal HI-SHOK's (factory*) have proven to be the most accurate in my Kimber Customll.

As far as carry as a Joe Public I am perfectly content in the carry of the above Commercial Ammo. If I thought my reloads with Golden Sabre's in the 40 and Nosler JHP in the 45 would be more terminal with the same accuracy then I would carry those. My approach is we can work out the details afterwords. If my life, or a friends or family members life is on the line I don't want to be haunted knowing I could have had a better outcome by using a different load. In other words if we are going to call ourselves prepared lets really be prepared. We don't want to find ourselves in a situation where we question ourselves for the rest of our lives.

If you have done all you know to do and fail, you have the satisfaction of not second guessing yourself. The law be damned if it is contrary, you will still be alive.

Thanks for your time.

*Upon realizing this particular Ammo (Federal 185gr JHP HI-SHOK) worked so well I stocked up and figured to use the spent brass for reloading. I know it's a couple gens back.

 

[altitude_19]

You need not jump to "conviction." I don't want my choice of ammo brought up in anything more than passing mention. The evil super-bullet argument is FAR more prevalent with handloads than factory ammo. I just can't see the advantage. It's a couple bucks of cheap insurance. I'm as confident as the next guy, but the raw numbers say malfunctions are more common with handloads than they are with premium factory defensive ammunition.

On to the next interesting side-note: Military uses hardball as a result of the geneva convention, which we interpret as forbidding expanding ammunition for regular military.
From a ballistic standpoint, FMJ is more likely to overpenetrate. I don't carry expanding ammo because it's more deadly, I carry it so that it doesn't overpenetrate and cause collateral damage.

 

[DeepSouth]

Short Barrel Gold Dots

 

[Wilburt]

Thank You Wilburt.

I just spent 2 hrs. plus digesting info from the links and recommend everybody else to take the time and do the same.

No Problem. I just like to be educated enough to make a reasonable decision and know what my equipment is capable of.

 

[danimalw]

Ok, I know that this will be debated 'til the end of time, but here's my .02.

I bet McDonalds never thought that they would have to defend themselves in court and have to pay big legal fees and damages for selling hot coffee in a cup/lid that had a warning about hot coffee.

My point is that this wasn't a criminal case, but a civil case where the lawyers can really muck things up. Most of the above posts delt with the criminal side (police investigation) but didn't mention the civil side.

The only people who make out in any of these situations are the lawyers.....

Currently in my state, if someone breaks into my house and injures themselves (and I'm not even there) they can sue me for injuries. So if they can do that, what can they do if I shoot them with reloads while they are breaking in????

Sorry, everyone has to decide for themselves, but for me, factory ammo for SD/HD. Why give them one more thing to drag out in court at what $250/hr per lawyer?

 

[grubbylabs]

Well I have settled on the 185 Gold Dot Hollow points with 8 grains of Unique. It shoots good out of my XD and I am sure that it should be plenty to stop a BG. Although I am going to chrono it soon just so I know how fast it is going.

By the way, some thing that I have learned in the medical field and some other dablings is that if it is written down then it happened. So if your load journal says you loaded x amount of powder under X brand bullet of Y weight and design, then as far as the courts are concerned that is what happened.

 

[FM12]

185 JHP over a STOUT loading of Unique or Bullseye.

 

[jhansman]

Factory for me. Too many lawyers....

 

[altitude_19]

So if your load journal says you loaded x amount of powder under X brand bullet of Y weight and design, then as far as the courts are concerned that is what happened.

I see. So if I murder someone tonight, and have a note in my pocket that says I was in China when it happened, I'm off the hook? Writing it does not make it true, and it certainly doesn't make it admissible evidence. You cannot take the word of The Accused as to what the death weapon/ammunition was. Forensics will be used to attempt to determine what the ammo was, and that's a whole lot easier with factory loads (especially if a warranted search of your residence turns up the original packaging, lot number and all.

 

[grubbylabs]

Journals and written documents are commonly used as evidence and accepted as truth. Your example is neither applicable or rational.

Don't argue if you cant be reasonable.

 

[altitude_19]

These are rhetorically identical situations. One cannot accept evidence generated INTENTIONALLY by the accused before the fact (China note and Bullet Diary are both such evidence) especially if the accused is believed to have pre-meditated the shooting. Can you show an example of a situation where reloading records were believed over independent forensic testing?

 

[BADUNAME37]

230 grain FMJ hardball.

 

[BADUNAME37]

I use factory ammo for personal defense in my pistols (200gr Speer Gold Dot). Personally, I do so for a greater guarantee of reliable function. I've never had a handload fail in my reloading career, but I also haven't taken the time to chronograph most of my pistol loads, and I have shot far more factory ammo than I have handloaded ammo over the years.

I'm sure that I'd be fine using handloads if I made a significant effort to do so, but I'd want to be sure that I made those pistol rounds to very exacting specifications (checking velocities over a chrony, primer seating depths, etc). I just don't put all that much effort into pistol loading, as I typically load for plinking or IPSC matches (short range and fast shots). I've also found that the factory defensive loads are of high quality, and function reliably. Plus, the cost difference is only marginally significant, since I don't normally shoot through my defensive loads.

As far as the legal concerns of using handloads, I could see this being a major problem for a police department, or other public safety organization (we face scrutiny on everything, given our role of serving the public). Otherwise, the idea that handloads would be a problem (legally) in a self-defense situation involving a private citizen has always struck me as internet mythology. Simply put, if you pull the trigger on a person, the shoot is going to be judged on the circumstances, not the ammo that you were carrying.

If anyone claims otherwise on the subject of handload legality, I'd love to see some documentation of any court case where the ammo that was used was decided to be the determining factor regarding the legality of a defensive shooting! Simply put, the legality is the least of my concernes when it comes to carrying handloaded ammo for defensive purposes!

I have had more misfires from FACTORY ammo in various calibers over the 25+ years I have reloaded and all that time, I have NEVER had a cartridge fail that I loaded.

I trust my own ammo more than I trust that which is mass-produced.

 

[Fatelvis]

230 grain FMJ hardball.

 

[CTShooter]

I load mine with butterflies, rainbows, and dreams

 

[danimalw]

With the current political backdrop AND how some judges have been able to legislate from the bench AND how lawyers can pervert facts, I am amazed that anyone trusts the courts and isn't concerned about paying huge legal fees. And don't discount the juries... O.J. was accquitted.

While using reloads in SD/HD should be legal, the lawyers (trying to rack up legal fees or trying to make a name for themselves) WILL pervert anything they can. Just look at all of the ambulance chasers and frivolous lawsuits.

How many members here, as a defendant, would trust the prosecutor with your life? How many trust your life with the plaintiff's lawyer, who is suing you?

Those of us who carry/keep firearms for SD/HD, do so because we can not trust that certain members of society will not refrain from committing crimes and violating our rights. But at the same time, many of us trust lawyers to do the right thing?? Why do you think there are soooooo many lawyer jokes?

If any of us are involved in a SD/HD shooting, and I hope we aren't, why spend more of your hard earned (and too heavily taxed) money possibly defending something that you shouldn't have to worry about. Again, look at the McDonald's case. They got sued for selling a product that's a regular part of their menu. Who would have thought that?

Legal fees aren't exactly refundable. I'd much rather spend that money on more shooting stuff for me instead of paying for an addition on a lawyers vacation house, but hey that's just me.

You could be walking in a crosswalk and get hit by a car and killed. If you're in the crosswalk, you would be in the right, in fact, you'd be dead right. But what does it get you?

As gun owners, we have the media and a large part of the uninformed public against us and we can't forget that.

Ok, I'm done now. Be safe.

 

[Sapper771]

-230gr XTP 6.1gr Unique OAL 1.230".

-230gr XTP 5.2gr Titegroup OAL 1.230".

-185gr XTP 3.8gr Clays OAL 1.230".


Those are a few I found online. I chose the Unique load for my XTPs. I had to tweak the grain amount a bit to get it to shoot POA in my G21SF, but it shoots great and clocks at 820-850fps. I used some Remington +P virgin brass in the load.

I carry either Factory Speer 230gr Gold Dots or Hornady 230gr XTPs in my carry 45s.

 

[EMC45]

There is "Castle Doctrine" in the State of Ga. I says that a criminal who is shot while committing a crime cannot sue, nor can he/she file criminal charges against the shooter. The law also states that if the offender is killed the surviving family cannot take legal or civil action against them. This would negate any handwringing in the court room over handloads vs. factory ammo. I have no qualms about handloads in a SD gun at all. As a matter of fact I am about to load up some 240gr. Remington SJHPs over a stiff charge of Unique for my 44 Special! They will be defense loads BTW! I think my cast 250gr. Lyman 429-421 would not be a good choice for defense....I think that bullet would pass through about 4-5 crackheads at once!

 

[Oceans]

Remington 230 grain Golden Sabers, in a 5 inch Govt. Colt.

 

[altitude_19]

a criminal who is shot while committing a crime cannot sue, nor can he/she file criminal charges against the shooter. The law also states that if the offender is killed the surviving family cannot take legal or civil action against them.

Interesting. Nebraska does not yet have castle doctrine, but IF you do, I can ALMOST see the upside to handloads. Would probably still carry the same inside/outside the home...just for the sake of simplicity.