What do you think of this lineup/wishlist? Suggest improvements.

[The Burnside Ninja]

1) Walther P99 9mm
- It's concealable, holds 15+1 rounds, medium power, and has very common ammo.

2) .45 ACP 1911
- Great knock down power, very reliable design, ammo is common, but holds only 8+1 rounds.

3) .357 magnum revolver (either Ruger GP100, SP101, or S&W 686)
- can shoot the two of the most common revolver rounds (357 and 38), absolutely reliable because of revolver design, very accurate, and superb power, but slow to reload.

4) .32 ACP Kel Tec P32
- Suzie will shoot it, very compact, holds 8+1 rounds, light weight, but has weak take down power. (I'd add a laser dot to make it easier for suz to aim)

5) Mossberg 500 12 gauge.
- Proven design, 5+1 rounds, compact, and powerful, very slow to reload.

6) Beretta Tomcat .22LR
- concealable, quick to reload, but lacks power... however, it can be used as a "small game" hunter 8+1

7) Henry Survival Rifle .22LR
- Light weight, floats, all the parts fit into the butstock of the rifle. Holds 8+1... superb for hunting small game.

8) AR-15 in M4 design or Pistol design. (5.56 NATO)
- Great round for self defense, long distance (even the pistol is accurate 100+ yards), holds 10-30 or more rounds.

9) AK-47 7.62 x 39
- Superb round for self defense from a rifle, heavy weapon, but very well made. Can hold 30+ rounds.

 

[Deuce1911]

Pretty comprehensive list.

It depends on what the gun is intended for.

If an every day carry gun is what you want, move the 1911 up to #1. Easy to conceal because it's thin, but it has a big a$$ hole in the end of it.

For HD, shotgun goes to #1.

For range fun, some sort of .22.

All the others you have listed have their specific purpose. Pick the ones that you will use the most and get the most value out of. Safe queens can come later in the collection.

 

[JWarren]

Hi...

What are your goals for this collection?

I have always tended to determine what needs I have to the firearms, and then determine what firearms would best fit the need, and also what firearms could pull double duty on two or more needs. Then I determine how many people I realistically need the redundant firearms for (example: Both wife and husband carry a handgun = two handguns)

Once I have the needs and redundancy issues addressed, anything else I get is just because I want it.

Scanning your list, I saw a lot of firearms that seemed to be highly redundant-- and that is OK. I'm just trying to determine what your thought process is.

I have a few suggestions from my own opinions that I may be able to share.

John

 

[The Burnside Ninja]

my ideas for this handgun/rifle list is to have most of the basics covered for fun, hunting, and SHTF (mostly this one) scenarios. I want to spend the minimum amount of money for the maximum value. I don't need a gun that is MORE accurate that I am. In most gunfire scenarios, I will not have the time to align sights and hold a steady position. However, I did want to open up a wide range of scenarios with the least amount of guns/money needed. Should I have a .357 in a 3" SP101 and a .44 in another gun? How many firearms does it take to cover most worst case scenarios?

I realize that some yahoos might say "All you need is a 1911..." however, try hunting game with a .45

I thought I covered most scenarios- (without going overboard ie- bazooka)

 

[illspirit]

I own and carry a P99, and love it. But while it's somewhat thin for a service-pistol-size 9mm, it isn't the most concealable thing in the world. If you're looking to fill that spot with a dedicated CCW, might it be best to go with the P99c instead? That's next on my agenda when the new AR quits hypnotizing me into buying new parts from the intertubes. Well, that, or, an XD-9 compact.

 

[The Burnside Ninja]

so would you guys say this wishlist is complete? Without going "overboard"- do you think I have all scenarios covered?

 

[Ala Dan]

I would change #4 to a Seecamp LWS-32 auto, and #6 to a Browning
BuckMark plus~!

 

[Gator]

Considering your scenario, I would simplify a bit:

1) .45 1911. There is no better self defense pistol/caliber combo. 1911s also conceal quite well for their size. If 8 + 1 doesn't seem like enough for you, get a Para-Ord or similar.

2) Marlin Papoose .22 (scoped) for hunting small game. It breaks down for storage like the Henry but is far more accurate.

3) Remington 870 12 ga (Mossbergs are good too) with an 18" cylinder bore barrel for HD and a 22" barrel with an old Poly-Choke for hunting. That way you don't have to keep track of choke tubes.

4) M1 Garand or Springfield M1A. Good for defense or hunting. With a .22 and a .30-06 or .308 you'd be good for anything from squirrels to elk.

Those would be a minimum battery. A .22 Ruger MKII, an AR-15, and a scoped .30-06 rifle would be nice but not essential. If you live in Alaska you'd need something bigger for bear too!

 

[JWarren]

Ok....

Here's my take on it. Please understand this this is my opinion only and is based upon hunting all my life as well as going through Katrina. There is no "right" answer.

Right off the bat, I see you have 5 (possibly 6) pistol options on your list in various calibers. I'd consider that a little excessive, assuming it would be only you and Suz using them.

The Walther P99 9mm and .45 ACP 1911 are roughly redundant semi-auto pistols for you-- meaning they would pull the same duty essentially.

The .357 magnum revolver could be simply a desire to have a revolver, which is nice, but far from necessary. Again, this essentially pulls the same duty as the Walther and .45.

The .32 ACP Kel Tec P32 for Suz, I can understand in your reasoning, but it would probably be better to get her into a common caliber with other guns, such as 9mm possibly. My 5'1" wife uses a 9mm with no problems.

I can't see a single thing wrong with getting a Mossberg 500 12 gauge.

I am assuming the Beretta Tomcat .22LR is a handgun (and I included it as one in my reasoning-- I don't keep up with Beretta too much). This becomes a redundant 22 rimfire. Seriously, I doubt you will ever use a 22 handgun to hunt when you have the 22 rimfire rifle there. This will probably become a gun you would very rarely use except for plinking.

I don't know a lot about the Henry Survival Rifle .22LR in terms of is accuracy and reliability, but I'll say that a 22 rimfire rifle will be handy to have. I have a Ruger 10/22 for that role.

I *personally* think the AR-15 in Pistol design would have limited usefulness. In SHTF, I'd rather have some type of stock option available to me, and if hunting you definately want a stock.

AR-15 in M4 design is a toss up. Fine for defense, but what would you plan on hunting with it? Before I start a debate regarding the hunting capabilities of a 223, I will only say that is is MY preference to hit a deer-sized animal with something more substantial than a 223-- Hell, it is ILLEGAL to shoot a deer with less than a 24 caliber round in my state! The 223 is a nice range round, but I want it to have something to it when it gets there.

The AK-47 7.62 x 39 is a great defense weapon, and I personally don't find them to be all that heavy. The 7.62x39 round isn't going to have near the accuracy at distance that the 223 would have, but how far to you anticipate needing to shoot? It is a fine "brush" deer rifle, however.


As it is, I see you needing to stock a LOT of different calibers and that could become problematic. If it were me, I would strive to consolidate to have more firearms sharing a common caliber.

I may go the route of having:

One 30 caliber rifle capable of a deer-sized target up to a several hundred yards.

One decent defense-oriented rifle such as the AR-15 (M4 configuration) or AK. You may want to get Suz one too.

One 22 rimfire rifle.

Two handguns in common caliber to each other.

One 12 gauge shotgun with screw-in chokes.

Anything beyond that is only adding to a decent core collection.

Don't forget to stock as much ammunition as you think is appropriate for the firearms, and don't forget to have a good supply of hunting rounds as opposed to Full Metal Jacket.


Hope that helps!


John

 

[The Burnside Ninja]

thanks Gator, but, I think you would probably want at least one revolver, right? There's nothing quite like the reliability of pulling a trigger and hearing "bang."

No doubt the 1911 is amazing!!! However, I still think everyone should own at least one revolver for unquestionable reliabilty. (even 1911s have their flaws)

The .32 and .22 pistols are for my fiancee'. (I can handle more recoil)

I checked out the Papoose- but I kind of like the AR-7 more. It floats on it's own, holds more rounds, is more compact, and would be easier to pack in a bug out bag. But I do appreciate your suggestion!!!


How about:

1) 9mm walther (can't deny the extra rounds & most common caliber)
2) 45 acp (Love the defense!)
3) .357 (SHE can shoot .38s for her recoil sensitivity) <5'2 barely 100lbs>
4) Mossberg 500
5) Henry Survival Rifle .22LR
6) 7.63 x 39 rifle- though, I do agree that an AR-15 in M4 would be helpful (perhaps the AR for Suz?)

 

[Harry Paget Flashman]

1) Glock 17 9mm

2) Glock 21 .45 ACP

3) .357 magnum revolver (DA Ruger or S&W w/4" bbl)

4) Bersa .380

5) Mossberg 500

6) Walther P22 .22LR

7) Henry Lever Action Rifle .22LR

8) AR-15 in M4 design

9) AK-47 7.62X39

 

[VARifleman]

A Keltec is far from light on recoil...because it weighs so little it hurts to shoot. I suggest the .380, 6+1, can't beat the stopping power for its size and weight, and it's more accurate than the Keltec .32. I can hit 25 yrd targets with the .380. That puts the recoil up a little bit, but it's managable with the proper grip. A 9mm, say XD9 of some kind or a 1911 in 9mm would be good if she doesn't do well with the recoil of a .45, but if you haven't I suggest getting her to try it with a good stance and grip. It isn't too bad.

 

[Gator]

Hey Ninja,

I LOVE revolvers! I have two for every auto I own, but I was trying for a basic battery. I almost added a S&W or Ruger .44 Mag to the list, it would be useful for hunting; you can load it for everything from rabbits to moose. And your fiancee could handle the lighter loads.

I have to disagree about the AR-7 type rifles though, they are just not very accurate, but if you can get close enough they will do I have one, as well as a Charter Explorer pistol (handgun version of the AR-7), just because they are neat.

I have no experience with the Walter 99, but I have no doubt they are excellent pistols. I have a Glock 19 that is very accurate, reliable, and easy to fix in the unlikely event it ever needed it...they are pretty much indestructible. And 9mm ammo is cheap and plentiful

 

[rangerruck]

i'd put the keltec p11 over the 32, it is also a 9 and barely bigger than the 32.
Saiga 12 shotty over the mossy, uses 10 round mags.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

For your .22 rifle

If you need a takedown rifle for transportability, may I add my support to the (already suggested) Marlin Papoose over the Henry AR7.

If you examine them closely, you will find a substantial difference in quality of manufacture.

This translates to duty cycle. You really can't take an AR7 (the Henry Surival Rifle) out and shoot it every week without winding up doing some repairs.

The Papoose, on the other hand, can do duty as a regular shooter if need be. Yes, there are trade-offs. Having held them both, I prefer the ergonomics of the Marlin.

While the Marlin does not float on its own, the carrying case does, in fact, provide floatation.

I went back and forth over these two for a couple of months until I had a chance to examine the actions of each. I decided on the Marlin.

Yes, I could use the Henry, and if it was what I had to work with, I'd certainly be grateful to have it.

Given the choice, however, the Marlin Papoose gets my vote.

(Oh, and the other post that suggested a 10/22 for normal shooting duty? Yes. I have one, and it's my primary target rifle. Silver dollar sized targets at 50 yards with open sights. Durable. Good support.)

 

[ArfinGreebly]

.357 Companion

I notice you have specified a .357 revolver. Good choice.

I might suggest that you add a companion rifle for it.

The Marlin 1894C shoots both .357 and .38 ammo. The .357 fired from a rifle is actually a viable deer cartridge.

As it happens, I managed to get a S&W 586-7 (like the 686+, but blued with walnut grips, rather than stainless and rubber) and the Marlin carbine in .357 both within the span of 3 months. Then the weather crapped out on me, so I have yet to christen them at the range. Really looking forward to that.

Anyway, just a suggestion. Wouldn't want your revolver to get lonely.

 

[tepin]

kimber UC II (.45) for carry
Torn between the AK and AR. Probably do AK for price and heavier round.

 

[Zen21Tao]

Just my 2 cents

1) Walther P99 9mm
- It's concealable, holds 15+1 rounds, medium power, and has very common ammo.

If you want good concealability also look at Glocks subcompacs, S&W M&P, Kahr PM models, a snubbie revolver or a Kel Tec. For IWB concealment I carry a Sig P239 .40S&W, a Sip P245 .45acp, a Glock 27 .40S&W or a Glock 29 10mm. For deep concealment I pocket carry a Kahr PM40.

2) .45 ACP 1911
- Great knock down power, very reliable design, ammo is common, but holds only 8+1 rounds.

Great choice. I am a big fan of 1911s. I have a Kimber, a Springfield "loaded" and a Norinco (and a Para Ordnance Tac-4 LDA).

3) .357 magnum revolver (either Ruger GP100, SP101, or S&W 686)
- can shoot the two of the most common revolver rounds (357 and 38), absolutely reliable because of revolver design, very accurate, and superb power, but slow to reload.

A .357 revolver is a proven platform. I personally like the S&W 686 for a full sized revolver or a model 60/360/340 for a concealable revolver.

4) .32 ACP Kel Tec P32
- Suzie will shoot it, very compact, holds 8+1 rounds, light weight, but has weak take down power. (I'd add a laser dot to make it easier for suz to aim)

I am really not a big fan of small pocket pistols. I know that many say that "something small in the pocket is better than something bigger at home" but with todays technology you can get some pretty small 9mm and up pistols.

5) Mossberg 500 12 gauge.
- Proven design, 5+1 rounds, compact, and powerful, very slow to reload.

I am partial to Remington 870. It really is the stand by which all shotguns tend to be judged. Pricewise, they are lose enough to Mossberg I don't see the reason for buying the Mossberg. I also have a Winchester Defender 1300 8+1 pump shotgun. It is a great home defense gun too.

6) Beretta Tomcat .22LR
- concealable, quick to reload, but lacks power... however, it can be used as a "small game" hunter 8+1

For reasons I mentioned above, I am not a fan of small pocket pistols. As for a "hunter", I really think it will lack the accuracy for any type of small game purposes. If you do want to use a hangun for hunting small game, I would suggets a target pistol over a pocket pistol. But for this, a rifle really is a much better choise.

7) Henry Survival Rifle .22LR
- Light weight, floats, all the parts fit into the butstock of the rifle. Holds 8+1... superb for hunting small game.

I don't really have an opinion on this rifle. I do have a Feather AT22 that I find rather fun to shoot. It has a callapsable wire stock and barrel wan be removed for storage.

8) AR-15 in M4 design or Pistol design. (5.56 NATO)
- Great round for self defense, long distance (even the pistol is accurate 100+ yards), holds 10-30 or more rounds.

The AR is a GREAT weapon.

9) AK-47 7.62 x 39
- Superb round for self defense from a rifle, heavy weapon, but very well made. Can hold 30+ rounds.

I am NOT a fan of AKs. A .308 is much more accurate round. I love my FN FAL and HK91. You can also found a Cetme pretty cheaply.

 

[The Burnside Ninja]

Thanks Gents!

I do believe I'll check out the .22LR Papoose before I purchase a Henry.

Also, I agree that the .32 lacks power as does the Beretta .22- however, once again, it is not for me.. it is for my fiancee.

For those who suggested Glock- I'm not a big fan of them. Heaven Forbid!!! I don't like their trigger system or their thick grips. However, I may purchase a Glock in .40- just because I've heard of Police using them. No, I cannot deny their reliability or the fact that I can hurl them into a flaming volcano with evil midget monkeys wielding baseball bats... and the glock still survives.

The suggestion of a Khar for deep concealment is awesome! I love Kahrs! However, I consider a Khar as a backup weapon only. Yes, they're pretty accurate- but the lack of capacity keeps it from being a primary. (Remember, these weapons cover SHTF)

I would probably stay with the 7.62 x 39 just as a moderate range combat weapon. I can't imagine needing a .308 to snipe someone ### yards away.

What is the average accuracy limitation for an AR-15 in an M4 design? VS .308? VS 7.62 x 39?

 

[Monkeybear]

All you need.

1.) Marlin Papoose .22 (good for hunting small game.)

2.) 4" SS Ruger GP100 (all you need a sidearm for is to get you to your shotgun)

3.) Remington 870 (no situation that this wont get you through that a handgun will)

 

[Zen21Tao]

For those who suggested Glock- I'm not a big fan of them. Heaven Forbid!!! I don't like their trigger system or their thick grips. However, I may purchase a Glock in .40- just because I've heard of Police using them. No, I cannot deny their reliability or the fact that I can hurl them into a flaming volcano with evil midget monkeys wielding baseball bats... and the glock still survives.

The suggestion of a Khar for deep concealment is awesome! I love Kahrs! However, I consider a Khar as a backup weapon only. Yes, they're pretty accurate- but the lack of capacity keeps it from being a primary. (Remember, these weapons cover SHTF)

I too am not a big fan of Glock (even though I own 2) but I too admit they are extremely durable and well made. On the other hand, the S&W M&P has a much better trigger (I also dislike the glock trigger) and has interchangeable inserts at the rear of the grip that you can change to get the best feel possible. I also know many that are impressed by the newer Taurus Milleniums (much better triggers than they used to have).

As for the Kahr, I live in Florida where its usually shorts and t-shirt weather. The kahr makes a great choice when you wear cloths that cause your IWB weapon to print and when you just want to toss a piece in you pocket to run a few quick errands. Remember, you can always toss a couple spare mags in your other pocket. I am also a big believer in the idea the first few rounds you fire are the most important. I am more than comfortable with 5+1 (or 6+1) rounds and few reloads.

I would probably stay with the 7.62 x 39 just as a moderate range combat weapon. I can't imagine needing a .308 to snipe someone ### yards away.

What is the average accuracy limitation for an AR-15 in an M4 design? VS .308? VS 7.62 x 39?

The 7.92x39 and the .308 are both 30 caliber bullets with nearly similar ballistics. As for accuracy, the AR15 is extremely accurate from the muzzle out to around 200-300 yards then tapers off whereas the .308 is extrely accurate from the muzzle out to say 500-600 rounds (depends greatly on skill of the shooter). The 7.62x39 is, well, pretty much like throwing very fast rocks at your target.

 

[The Burnside Ninja]

Excellent info, Zen! My Walther P99 has the interchangeable grips, also. Perhaps I will get a Kahr in 9mm or .40.

As for the rifles...

Do you think an AR-15 in M4 design would be good for up close and then for those loooooong distance shots, I could have a 50 Beowulf bbl? Has anyone had any experience with the ARs configured with a .50 Beo?

 

[Prince Yamato]

You need a 9x18 makarov on that list. Who cares which pistol chambered for it, but you definately need a 9x18. They're surplus and cheap today, they'll be mroe expensive and not as easy to find in 15 years.

 

[g5reality]

I love my basic collection:

1)Remington 870 Express 12 gage
2)Glock 19 - 9mm
3)S & W 686+ 4" - .357Magnum or .38, .38+
4)Ruger 10/22 - .22
5)Kimber Raptor II - .45ACP
6)Springfield M1A - .308
7)Ruger Mini-14 - .223

I want and am getting over the next 3 months:
1)Winchester 70 7mm
2)Remington 700 30-06
3)S & W 442 or 637 - CCW .38
4)Glock 26 - CCW 9mm

I don't know I'll need any others future buys may include:
1)Springfield TRP-Pro Model 1911 - .45ACP
2)Kimber Aegis II or Ultra RCP II CCW - 9mm & .45 ACP

 

[g5reality]

BTW

I'll take my Ruger mini-14 .223 or my M1A .308 over an AK or AR any day of the week. I can hit a man size target with a 6-24x40mm Bushnell 4200 with mil dot reticle @ 800 yards with my M1A, or with the Winchester 7mm. For close range combat I'll get just as much or better accuracy from the Mini as I will form a AR-15 style, both with a tactical scope, setup, 4X, Red dot, light & laser combo.