What do you think of this lineup/wishlist? Suggest improvements.

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Excellent info, Zen! My Walther P99 has the interchangeable grips, also. Perhaps I will get a Kahr in 9mm or .40.

As for the rifles...

Do you think an AR-15 in M4 design would be good for up close and then for those loooooong distance shots, I could have a 50 Beowulf bbl? Has anyone had any experience with the ARs configured with a .50 Beo?

I haven't had first had experience with the Beowulf but I have checked its ballistics and read many reviews on it. IIRC, it has ballistics similar to a .45-70, with the recoil of a 12 gauge shotgun and is capable of 1" to 1.5" accuracy at 100 meters with an effective of about 200 meters. After that, accuracy really drops off. It is great if you want a very powerful rather close distance shooter. If you want a flat stooting long distance round (by Alexander Arms) look at the 6.5 Grendel. IIRC, it is capible of submoa performance at 600meters with ballistics similar to a .308. However, for the cost difference between milsurp .308 ammo and 6.5 Grendel ammo, I would personally stick with the .308 for a (relatively) long distance round.
 
Did you read my post on the Keltec? It's not the kind of gun you want to get a new shooter because it's not good at anything but being concealed. It hurts to shoot and can cause a beginner to shy away from handguns, another to look at is the Sig 232 for her, if you have taken her to the range and found she doesn't like the .45.
 
VARifleman,

I've taken her to the range and she's shot a 9mm, .380, .32, and .22- only the .22 she was comfortable with. However... the .32 was a NAA "blowback design" which apparently has more "perceived" recoil than the .32 kel tec with the "lock-breech" design.

The reasons that I've opted for the kel tec are:

A. Heck of a lot cheaper than a Sig!!!
B. Smaller and lighter.
C. It's sole purpose is to be in her purse for a "just in case" scenario.
(I'd hate to leave a Sig in a purse for that purpose- what a waste!)
D. She's going to seldomly fire it (except for practice every so often)- so why have a REALLY nice Sig that I won't want to shoot?


I do appreciate the comment though.
 
Khar .40 as a back up. Since we mentioned a Kahr... and some people love the .40 caliber bullet...

Has anyone shot the Kahr in a .40? What is the recoil/follow-up shoots like compared to a Kahr P9? I would think that with such a light weight, small gun... the .40 would be quite "snappy"
 
Seems like a comprehensive, well-rounded list. It is missing a true long-range rifle in a beefy caliber, but that's OK. My "list" is too; I've decided I don't really need that, at least not right now.


My only humble suggestion would be to get a "nicer" .22 rifle. It's what I end up shooting about 95% of the time. The survivial rifle will be practical and all, but you'll enjoy plinking with a nice mid-to-high grade rifle a lot more.
 
Khar .40 as a back up. Since we mentioned a Kahr... and some people love the .40 caliber bullet...

Has anyone shot the Kahr in a .40? What is the recoil/follow-up shoots like compared to a Kahr P9? I would think that with such a light weight, small gun... the .40 would be quite "snappy"

I have a Kahr PM40. I havent fired the 9mm model so I can't comment on the difference in recoil. I can with the PM there is a little bit of snap but is mush less than you would expect. The recoil is felt (at least by me) more as an initial hard lateral push against the inside of the palm then (almost immediately) a quick but not too high muzzle raise. I seem to recall it being around a 40 degree raise. Follow-up shots with it are not that difficult once you get used to the recoil. As for accuracy, within its expected range (7-15 feet) it is dead on.
 
do you think a "beefy" caliber for long distance is needed if "SHTF"? I mean, would you think that it would have to come to sniping tactics if all hell breaks loose?
 
I have no idea what I would be up against with SHTF, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't hurt to have it. Better to have and not need....


That being said, I don't have one either and I think I could get by fine on what I've got.
 
More Common?

do you think .308, 30-30, or 30-06 is more common?

Yes.

Really, it kind of depends on where you are.

We have shops here in Northern/Western Nevada that have plenty of .308, some .30-06, and no (or very little) .30-30.

Others favor .30-06, and I know one that has the .30-30 in six or eight configurations, including the new Hornady stuff.

I'd say that, modernly, the .308 sees more action than the other two, so availability and pricing will probably favor it.

Your Milage May (actually, Will) Vary. And by quite a bit, I imagine.
 
30-30 is very common, but it is not a true long-range caliber. The ballistics just aren't there.


I personally would probably go .30-06 over .308, especially if I was just getting something to fill a narrow niche like in this situation. Either would be fine though; I just have my own preference.
 
Burnside, unless you plan on buying all of these weapons right away, this list will change so much as to perhaps be useless. Though of course, every red-blooded American needs a 12 guage pump. :) You sound like you're just now getting into guns and if so, you might be like me and totally change your preferences and sell your first few guns to get something totally different. If you buy the 9mm first, your fiancee might find that she likes that particular gun and doesn't want anything smaller. Or has she had a chance to fire .38s yet?

You might find that you don't like AKs or ARs. In fact, if you want a glass sight, you might find that mounting a scope on your AK is more trouble than it's worth. (I could be wrong, I've never looked into that.)

I will also throw in with those that say you've got too much redundancy on the list, and in some ways not enough. Your basic list should just be one pistol (auto or revolver) for you, one for your wife, and if you need to keep another loaded gun in the nightstand or vehicle, make it a revolver. No need to worry about magazine springs left compressed forever, if that worries you. It might be best if these were all the same caliber, but of course that's not as much fun. Of course get the 12 guage or a twenty if it's easier for your fiancee to shoot. For SHTF you may want two ARs or two AKs, but they should be the same caliber and use the same magazines. Then again, I prefer a "real rifle" (.308 or similar) and my wife would probably need something with less recoil. Speaking of "real rifles," 7mm or .308 would be the starting point for a real gun. Those other guns are great, but a .30-06 will reach out and kill big things (or penetrate things) at medium range, where a pistol, shotgun or M4 (short barrel) will not.
 
Well, as for "real rifles", I suppose a Ruger Mini-14 is a good "varmiter", right? As for .308 would you suggest a hunting rifle that's relatively inexpensive, yet dependable?

I still like the idea of having a .45, 9mm, and .357 mag. They're all very common ammo (9mm world wide)

As for your suggestion- a .308 for you and perhaps a .223 for your wife?
 
Agree about a lot of redundancy.

* Rather than two pocket pistols and a .357, how about just a snub-nose .38 like the S&W 642? Easy to shoot, concealable, and yet plenty capable for self defense. Plus, if you are out where there are snakes, then it is very handy with CCI shotshell rounds.

* The AR and AK are redundant. I would get either 2 AR15s, or one M1A (or Garand) and one AR15.

* The Tomcat .22 is redundant with the .38 or .32. Instead of that you could get a .22 conversion unit for your 1911, or a Ruger Mk III or Browning, etc. with a 4" - 6" barrel for lots of fun at the range.

Assuming you have the guns listed in your sig line I would recommend something like the following with an emphasis on self-defense and SGTF, with hunting as secondary.

* A battle carbine or rifle, preferably two. Two AR15s, one M1A or MA Garand, or one AR15 and one M1/M1A. These are for the worst case scenario, and long term riflemen skill building.

* Two pistols, preferably of the same caliber. If you already have the P99 and 1911 then just keep them as is. If you are starting clean I would get two of the same that can share mags, like a full size and compact. Caliber is really a personal choice, as the handgun is mainly be to get you away from the situation, or get you to a rifle or shotgun. No need for a full size revolver as long as you have the .45.

* One pocket handgun. If starting fresh then I think a pocket revolver is one of the handiest. Very reliable, can shoot the .38 round, and can shoot shotshells for snakes. Reasonably controllable and comfortable for anyone to shoot (both my daughters are decent shots with the S&W 642, although the shrouded hammer version may be better, the 638 Bodyguard?). No need for the .22 or .32 pocket pistols. The pocket revolver gives you a revolver and a pocket gun in one package.

* Pump shotgun, Mossberg 500 or Remington 870. The single shot is not much use for SD. Keep it for sport as you will not likely get much for selling it.

* A .22 of some sort. The rifle is probably more versatile for target practice, pest control, and small game hunting. If you want a second one then get a full size .22 pistol or revolver, but the tomcat really doesn't add anything to the mix.

The absolute minimum I believe is:
* One battle rifle or carbine
* One pump shotgun
* One pistol of 9mm or greater caliber
- a compact version can usually do everything you need: concealed carry, nightstand, hiking, etc.
* One .22 rifle.

After that, then getting seconds for the rifle/carbine and handgun are priority.
 
I agree that you can "cover the bases" and get by with 4 or 5 pieces.


I also agree that redundancy is good, and should be applied where practical and prudent.
 
Then I suppose all I need is an AR-15 and that Henry Survival rifle that I've wanted.

Still though... I think I'd like to get a .357 mag just to put me on the gravy train.
 
The only reason I want a .22lr rifle is for survival purposes... not for plinking. I'm more of a pistol fan than rifle- so most of my plinking will be with pistols.
 
As for .308 would you suggest a hunting rifle that's relatively inexpensive, yet dependable?

I still like the idea of having a .45, 9mm, and .357 mag. They're all very common ammo (9mm world wide)

As for your suggestion- a .308 for you and perhaps a .223 for your wife?

With a .308 you have a great many options in automatic, bolt-action, probably even some lever and slide-actions. A bolt-action in .308, .30-06 or 7mm is pretty much mandatory for the American gunnie. But don't worry about that. Get a Mauser in 8 or 7mm or an Enfield in .303.

Good idea about the pistols.

I've got a .30-ought already. My wife hasn't fired many rifle rounds, so I don't know what she'd like. I've been longing for an SU-16CA, so maybe that's one way I could buy a .223 without feeling like a wimp. :neener:
 
1) Walther P99 9mm
good choice great firearm i would personally go with an xd but this is your wish list and not mine.

2) .45 ACP 1911
everyone should have one in there collection.

) .357 magnum revolver (either Ruger GP100, SP101, or S&W 686)
again a must have but i would recomend the 686 or better yet if you can come across a model 19! that would be sweet and i would be jealous!

5) Mossberg 500 12 gauge.
i prefer the remington 870's personally, but whatever you get, accessories it, with things shuch as a flashlight, mag extestion etc.

8) AR-15 in M4 design or Pistol design. (5.56 NATO)
bushmasters are sweet and they will serve you well. but don't get an ar pistol that has to be the most ridiculous thing ever!:)

9) AK-47 7.62 x 39
- Superb round for self defense from a rifle, heavy weapon, but very well made. Can hold 30+ rounds.
great choice there are many great ak's out there but for a budget the romanian sar-1's are nice as well as the norinco mak-90's like i have but my favorite so far is the yugo underfolders!
 
1. I'd suggest the AR15 be in A2 or A3 form that you can use to do some Highpower Rifle competitive shooting. Or add a $500 M1 Garand.

There are few better ways to get bett at shooting than competing.

2. I'd also suggest a "regular-sized" .22 pistol like a Browning Buckmark or Ruger Mark 2 plus a BUNCH of .22 ammo. Shoot $50 worth of .22 ammo through a nice accurate .22 pistol and you will enter the top 90% of pistol shooters -- for about $350 plus any range fees.
 
The only reason I want a .22lr rifle is for survival purposes... not for plinking. I'm more of a pistol fan than rifle- so most of my plinking will be with pistols.

Unless you plan of using a .22lr AR upper with suppressor, subsonic rounds, and a tactical wheel barrow, I would forget about a .22lr "for survival purposes." :neener:


Sorry, shameless Gunkid referance. :D

Also, if you want a great hangun cartridge that is extremely versitile look into a 10mm. With reduced loads you get the ballistics of a .40S&W and with hot loads you get ballistics somewhere between a .41magnum and .44magnum. I have 3, a Kimber 1911 10mm, a S&W 610 revolver 10mm, and a Glock 29 subcompact 10mm. In fact, I use the Glock 29 as a daily IWB concealed carry gun. Believe me when I say, the 10mm really is an amazing round.
 
Also, if you want a great hangun cartridge that is extremely versitile look into a 10mm. With reduced loads you get the ballistics of a .40S&W and with hot loads you get ballistics somewhere between a .41magnum and .44magnum. The 10mm really is an amazing round.

Kinda fails the commonly-available-cartridge test, though.
 
Also, if you want a great hangun cartridge that is extremely versitile look into a 10mm. With reduced loads you get the ballistics of a .40S&W and with hot loads you get ballistics somewhere between a .41magnum and .44magnum. The 10mm really is an amazing round.
Kinda fails the commonly-available-cartridge test, though.

Not if you order in bulk online from somewhere like Double Tap or, better yet, reload your own like I do.
 
10mm

I understand that 10mm is a very good round, but as ElevenMike stated- it is an "uncommon ammo" for SHTF purposes. Yes, I could order in bulk- but that would also mean that I'd have to lug around 1,000+ rounds of 10mm. (if I had to bug out)

I understand that ideally, I would not want to drag 9 weapons with me anyway- however, I think I would want to have something with common ammo in case I happened upon an empty house or downed fighters. (I was going to say "a gun shop"- but they'd most likely have 10mm or have been looted in a SHTF)
 
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