What group at 50yrds is very good? 22lr Semi Auto

[LoonWulf]

With good ammo both of my .22s will shoot under 1" at 50, and with ammo they like .5 isnt hard. At 100yds two different shooters fired 2 shots into less than 1" spreads with my Ranger.
My .17m2 10/22 conversion would shoot about that well at 100yds....when it wasnt busy exploding.....

 

[Rex in OTZ]

The fence post test works pretty good.
The 1.5" steel chain link fence post set at 50 yds.
Should be able to tink that fence post 4 out of 6 shots.

 

[dranrab]

OP, you mentioned that the first two were in the center of a 1" target and the next ones were to the left off of the target. How far off were they? If they were a half inch or so off the target, that gives you roughly a 1" group with CCI SV. That may not be bad for THAT ammo in YOUR gun.

What was the wind doing?

Is your scope a rimfire scope or does it have adjustable parallax? If not, that may be an issue.

 

[Spats McGee]

I'll start by admitting that I think I'm the limiting factor in most of my shooting. I think most of my rifles are mechanically capable of better accuracy than I'm capable of wringing out of them. For example, I've said that my 10/22 is MOSC (Minute of Soup Can), but the truth is that for many years, I never really tried to measure accuracy. If I could hit the soup cans, I was happy. In particular, I really only started to try to push myself on The Making of Small Groups a few months back. And as I just put a new stock on my 10/22 and bought a bipod, I'd like to set it up and really see what I can do with it.

And with all of that said, this is my best target to date. Compared to some of the shooters here, it's nothing to write home about, and I know that. However, it was pretty good for me. Ruger American Rimfire Target with Norma Tac-22. (At least, I think it was Tac-22. I know it was Norma.) The center is 1/5", and this is 10 rounds at 50 yards.

 

[jmorris]

Awhile back I took factory stock, Remington 597, Marlin 60 and a 10-22 rifles and added a scope to all three. With 3 different types of ammunition and 3 5 shot strings of fire at 60 yards, the best was a .990” group the worst 1.110”.

I would say that’s “acceptable” accuracy for the jobs they are intended for. I would define “good” accuracy as a smaller group and “very good” even smaller yet.

Qualitative words like “good” and “very” can be all over the place as how they are defined by individuals. Why (good ) recipes use quantitative values like 1 cup vs “a good amount”.

The reason they are different between everyone is because we are using our personal experiences to gather the definition. It might not even be the same from one set of circumstances to another.

This 25 yard 10 shot group with an advantage arms .22 pistol conversion would fit “very good” to me.



But wouldn’t be so great with other firearms I have at the same distance.

 

[Dale Alan]

Any robot can do that.

 

[someguy2800]

For a regular sporter 22 I would consider 1" at 50 yards to be good, and .5" at 50 yards to be very very good.

Well this may start a fight but here we go......
I don't think it's possible to make a 10/22 accurate. I have seen guys put $1000 plus in a 10/22 to hang with a $400 savage.....
Yes I think a semi auto can be accurate, but I don't think a 10/22 is that rifle.
Your truly after accuracy Anschutz, CZ , Savage
And before you get all mad because of what I have said, I know first hand, I spent over $900 on parts trying to make a 10/22 hold it's own against a Savage.
It's a total package you need to look at aftermarket barrel is a good start, but you need a good trigger, and the bolt must move buttery smooth.
And I will agree with most, more barrels have been ruined from improper cleaning.
CCI SV is ok for practice, better ammo like RWS or Eley or SK will produce better groups

A 10/22 can be made nearly benchrest accurate, but its not easy or cheap and there won't be much if any ruger parts left in the end.

 

[mcb]

Late to the thread. I have an old 10/22 (40 years old) with a Clerke barrel (bought used nearly 20 years ago) like the OP but mine is a 20-inch. Not much other than the receiver and trigger housing are original by this point. I have been using it for NRL22 matches.



At 50 yards it will pretty reliably do .6 - 1.0 MOA groups and 1.0 - 1.5 MOA at 100 yards. When the wind is just right and the meat-ware behind the trigger doesn't screw it up it will produce gems like this.


5-shots @ 50 yards


5-shot @ 100 yards

 

[alfsauve]

I tried about 5 different .22lr ammo and determined my stock, no modes, 10/22 w/ varmint barrel, liked to shoot CCI Standard velocity best. From a rest using a 15x scope here's my 100 yard target. Some of the 10/22s do really well out of the box.

 

[jmorris]

Any robot can do that.

Not even every brand of ammunition can do that, thus the machine taking the work out of the job.

 

[Dale Alan]

Not even every brand of ammunition can do that, thus the machine taking the work out of the job.

This is from the First sentence of this thread...."What group at 50 yards would be considered very good, for a 22lr rifle set up, scope, benched, semi-auto?" ...22 LR RIFLE.....Why make this about you ?

 

[jmorris]

What group would be considered very good by whom? He is asking opinions from you, me and everyone else that read the question. Not about me with the exception I am just one of many opinion holders (you could have offered yours to the OP as well but chose not to), it’s about different people, everyone and their quantification of qualitative words. I was simply pointing out the definitions of the qualitative words are subject to change between different firearms or situations, using my experiences as an example.

Ask the question, “Would a .990” 5 shot group at 50 yards with a scoped semiauto .22 off a bench a very good group?” or “What diameter in inches would you consider very good for the unknown rifle, with how many shots?” and see what answers you get. If they are all the same, I would be shocked.

The accepted level of 22 lr performance among experienced shooters is around an inch group or less at 50 yards. Any rifle / ammo combo that can deliver less than an inch is considered to be shooting well.

Occasionally, you will find a combo that will get close to a half inch at 50 yards. This is normally considered to be driving tacks.

Two inch groups at 100 yards is considered to be very very good with 3-4 inches being closer to the norm and being able to hold all shots in a 4 inch circle at 200 is considered to be excellent performance.

https://shootersden2.com/post/how-accurate-is-a-22lr-rifle-half-inch-at-100-yards

For example I just googled “what is a good group size .22 long rifle”. And the above was the top of the list.

“Acceptable” is “around an inch” at 50 yards with an unknown number of shots, 3 would be easier than 5, 10 or more. That would be around 2 MOA.

“Driving tacks” would be close to 1/2” to him. 1 MOA

“Very very good” would be 2” at 100 or the same 2 MOA as the “acceptable” ones at 50.

 

[55fairlane]

This is from the First sentence of this thread...."What group at 50 yards would be considered very good, for a 22lr rifle set up, scope, benched, semi-auto?" ...22 LR RIFLE.....Why make this about you ?

Semi auto off the bench? I don't shoot off the bench, but 2 M.O.A. groups at 50 yards (1 inch) will get you medals in the C.M.P. rimfire sporter match & earn your patch at an Apple seed.

 

[Orion8472]

OP, you mentioned that the first two were in the center of a 1" target and the next ones were to the left off of the target. How far off were they? If they were a half inch or so off the target, that gives you roughly a 1" group with CCI SV. That may not be bad for THAT ammo in YOUR gun.

What was the wind doing?

Is your scope a rimfire scope or does it have adjustable parallax? If not, that may be an issue.

It was probably within an inch, I guess. The wind wasn't very strong that day. I didn't have any equipment to measure it, though. And yes, my scope does have an adjustable parallax. I can't do scopes anymore without them. :-o

After reading the posts on here, I think I get what the deal is with "really accurate shooting". There are so many factors and since I'm not using REALLY quality ammo, and probably not the most stable of bench rests, maybe I'm not doing too poorly.

As an interesting side note, I have the plain Thomspson Center T/CR22 with a 1-8 Vortex scope on it, and only using Velocitors....and I think I can nearly do as well with that rifle, at 50 yards, as I can with the Standard Velocity and the bull barrel,...and Volquartsen trigger parts. I think my Ruger has the bentz chamber in it. So I found it fascinating that the T/CR22 was keeping up with it using high velocity ammunition.

 

[jmorris]

There are so many factors and since I'm not using REALLY quality ammo, and probably not the most stable of bench rests, maybe I'm not doing too poorly.

If you have .22 ammo to shoot and actually shooting it, you are certainly not doing poorly.

I also wouldn’t worry quite as much on REALLY quality ammunition, as much as trying just different ammunition. Some I have that one firearm does well with another just doesn’t like.

Your plan to have the TC to compare with is a good one. You never know for sure until you, know for sure. It’s easy to get caught up with a number of other differences then with a simple test find out, the differences are not as large as we thought. Like the side by side test I was referring to in #30.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/side-by-side-597-10-22-model-60.811602/

 

[Captcurt]

I had a 10/22 Sporter that shot very well after I put a trigger in it, but my CZ's would beat it hands down right out of the box. 1/4"-1/2" ten shot groups with decent ammo. One likes Wolf Match and the other liked Federal Gold Medal. Both shot Federal Champion almost as well. Go figure.

 

[Slamfire]

I'll start by admitting that I think I'm the limiting factor in most of my shooting. I think most of my rifles are mechanically capable of better accuracy than I'm capable of wringing out of them. For example, I've said that my 10/22 is MOSC (Minute of Soup Can), but the truth is that for many years, I never really tried to measure accuracy. If I could hit the soup cans, I was happy. In particular, I really only started to try to push myself on The Making of Small Groups a few months back. And as I just put a new stock on my 10/22 and bought a bipod, I'd like to set it up and really see what I can do with it.

And with all of that said, this is my best target to date. Compared to some of the shooters here, it's nothing to write home about, and I know that. However, it was pretty good for me. Ruger American Rimfire Target with Norma Tac-22. (At least, I think it was Tac-22. I know it was Norma.) The center is 1/5", and this is 10 rounds at 50 yards.

You know,, the first barrel on my 10/22 would shoot ten shot groups into 1.25" at fifty yards, that was good enough for busting a number of squirrels out of trees. Especially as a 50 yard shot on a squirrel is rare, as there are too many trees in the way!

It was not until I started shooting in competition that I had to upgrade my equipment. I think if you can kill a can at 50 yards with a 22lr, that is 99% of what you need a 22lr for.

 

[LiveLife]

I found it fascinating that the T/CR22 was keeping up with it using high velocity ammunition.

That's good thing. My stock T/CR22 is producing smaller groups than stock 10/22 with less ammunition preference issue.

It would be nice if you had greater selection of ammunition to compare.

Looking forward to your next range trip.

I wonder if you could post 50 yard target groups of T/CR22 on the next range trip as reference comparison.

 

[Steve S.]

I would think that a .5” group with an “average” grade .22 ammo and an average grade rifle at 50 yards is “very good”. I have watched a “fly” shoot at 50 yards where points were allocated as 3 points for a head shot, 2 for a wing and 1 point for a body shot - these are house fly size targets at 50 yards. These rifles and scopes ran into the thousands of dollars of cost; these shooters were seasoned - no semi rifles on that line - strictly bolts and German target ammo. Again, a 10/22 at 50 yards in a half inch or less would be impressive.

 

[Orion8472]

That's good thing. My stock T/CR22 is producing smaller groups than stock 10/22 with less ammunition preference issue.

It would be nice if you had greater selection of ammunition to compare.

Looking forward to your next range trip.

I wonder if you could post 50 yard target groups of T/CR22 on the next range trip as reference comparison.

I will try to do so. It may take me a few weeks to do that. I have a couple other rifles I need to test out this weekend. But as for that T/CR22, I'm contemplating putting a better trigger group in it and replace the stock trigger. I don't care if I lose the "bolt hold open", because I rarely use that magazine since it is a PITA to load. Thinking a full aluminum Volquartsen or one of those Hornet Custom Black Max. It's $100 less...but of course, is polymer.

 

[dranrab]

It was probably within an inch, I guess. The wind wasn't very strong that day. I didn't have any equipment to measure it, though. And yes, my scope does have an adjustable parallax. I can't do scopes anymore without them. :-o

After reading the posts on here, I think I get what the deal is with "really accurate shooting". There are so many factors and since I'm not using REALLY quality ammo, and probably not the most stable of bench rests, maybe I'm not doing too poorly.

As an interesting side note, I have the plain Thomspson Center T/CR22 with a 1-8 Vortex scope on it, and only using Velocitors....and I think I can nearly do as well with that rifle, at 50 yards, as I can with the Standard Velocity and the bull barrel,...and Volquartsen trigger parts. I think my Ruger has the bentz chamber in it. So I found it fascinating that the T/CR22 was keeping up with it using high velocity ammunition.

Try some other good quality ammo. Rimfires can be inexplicably picky with some loads.

 

[LiveLife]

Try some other good quality ammo. Rimfires can be inexplicably picky with some loads.

OP is shooting CCI SV which I use as reference ammo for chrono verification of my reloads. Muzzle velocities are quite consistent to eliminate low flyers from bullet drop. I believe rimfirecentral testing of CCI SV rated pretty high upwards near match grade ammo ahead of most commercial bulk ammo.

CCI Standard Velocity ... Clerke bull barrel [16 inch]

In my 10/22 and T/CR22 testing, CCI SV produced consistently small groups compared to 20+ commercial boxed/bulk ammo.

 

[Varminterror]

1/2” to 1” at 50yrds with preferred ammo. 8-10” at 300yrds.

 

[ms6852]

Will give the rifle a cleaning and retry again next weekend.

I think you are shooting ammunition your rifle particularly does not like. I would consider shooting a variety of ammo until you find the most accurate for that rifle.

 

[Orion8472]

I really don't have a lot of variety. All my stuff is either cheap bulk stuff or high velocity.

This is what I currently have:
CCI Standard Velocity
CCI Velocitor
CCI Minimag RN
CCI Minimag HP
CCI 22 Short
CCI Stingers
CCI Segmented
CCI Quiet
CCI Short Range Green
CCI Subsonic
CCI Suppressor 45gr
Federal Bulk 36gr HP
Federal Bulk 38gr HP
Federal Automatch
Aguila Super Extra Short
Aguila Colibri
Aguila Sniper Subsonic
Remington Subsonic
Winchester Subsonic
Blazer