17poundr
Member
I wonder when looking at ballistic charts, that the obviously greatest all rounder from the 'normal semi auto ammo', is the 10mm, and yet, it has only a fiew manufacturers both in the ammo and guns that fire it... I belive that the 10mm was thought out intentionally to be the 'next generation replacement of the 9mm parabellum', but somethign happened and it didnt catch on, exept in some swat like organisations in Europe, who took to the Heckler & Koch Mp-5 made for the 10mm...
But otherwize it became an endangered species.
Also, what is kind of funny is that Smith & Wesson basically took the 10mm, made it a bit shorter, and out came the .40cal S&W!!! Now this one has been very succesfull, and why not? It's a good bullet... But the 10mm is better!
Now, as I see it America has been in the nostalgic 45apc 'thing' for a couple of years, and as it starts to wear off, there is new opportunities to really look at ammo, I for one do not understand why the NATO countries havent taken to the 6.8mm rounds specially developed to make a follower for the .223rem/5.56NATO. I understand that as many NATO countries are involved in war at Afganistans and/or Iraq's jihhadi fields, so it isnt the time to change ones ammo... But the change is shurely coming, it would be dumb not to, even though special forces of US tried new 75grain extra long range ammo in their Socom m-16 rifles, and pushed the 'very accurate' boundary from the normal circa 300 meters to about 700 meters, how much this had to do with the new ammo, and how much with the gun is unknown, probably a bit of both...
But, in the handgun, it somehow makes me sad that the US special forces are going back to the 45apc, as there are more modern rounds out there, do not get me wrong, the 45apc is a great round, no question, and so are all the other classics, the thing is that NEW ammo has been developed, and it's by far better! Put that together with new guns, and guns in general will start to have better performances.
Think about the Socom, having become more or less the new gun for the US Army, but as it now fires 6.8mm ammo, it's range is now about 800 meters, as all the new rifles have somekind of special zoom sights...
Or in handguns, the army, and cops, and regurlar citizens packed new guns from the major manufacturers, taking full advantage of the 10mm's powerful, straight ballistic qualities... Civilians and cops, defend themselves with rounds that 'mushroom' on impact, but if miss, they are of frangible qualities and thus pretty much stop onto the face of the brick wall they have hit...
And, for those into practical I do not have to tell of the qualities of the 10mm, as this is the only reason why the rounds and guns for them are still arround...
So, why not the sig357? I hear somebody saying, indeed, indeed, now there is a modern good bullet that is similar in performace, the sig357, is a .40s&w case with a 9mm round on it, thus giving the extra gunpowder to push the bullet into faster realms... Probably the speeds are similar to the 10mm, so the only difference is that the sig357 fits more rounds into a clip, but get's smaller wound tracts, hitting power is pretty similar I belive... The 10mm going a bit further before what I call the 'ballistic droop', happens.
As you know, rounds usually go pretty straight, until that critical loss of speed has started to take over with ever increasing co-operation from gravity, in other words, they go straight, start to bend down a bit, and then cometh the great downward bend that happens rather fast, but do not be fooled, in ww1 and to some extent ww2 when people were really good with their shooting, this was taken advantage of, the maxim mg's then in use with all sides, were sometimes set behind a hill, and pre-measured so that they knew exactly where their bullets would start to fall down onto which area, and one guy would act as a forward observer, and give the sign, the enemy would be in dire straights when bullets started to whizz as if from nowhere, and they still had enough power to kill men, so there.
Anyway, I wish that more of the big gun manufacturers would make 10mm bullets, and design good double stack clips for it. Also the 357sig is imho much more worth the trouble than a .40s&w, which again, I think is a good round, but there are better imho.
And as for the 45apc, we know it will never go away, I'm only dumbfounded that all these fancy gunmakers, like Kimber for example are such traditionals, that they still turn out the otherwize wonderfully improved, and beautiful model 1911, but cant bother to put that respecful attitude into increasing the clip from that ridiculous 7 round thing that many a multi thousand dollar 1911 still comes with! It's completely incomprehencible to me, it's like saying, please put these model 1936 brakes in my new BMW, I just love the feel of them... I mean, the bullets and propellants ect for the 45apc have gone up, and so forth...
Think about this, the 45apc and 9mm parabellum have been with us from before ww1 unless I'm off with a couple of years with the 45.
Now, we can have model 1911 guns, firing 10mm ammo no probs, and still honour the venerable old vet... And anyway, if I had to choose a consealable 'panic self defence' gun, I would go probably for wartrhog's wonderfully compact, but angry little 45apc spitter! (That is if I lived in a country where getting licences isnt from hell, and using a gun for self defence doesnt get you into jail pretty much automatically, be thankful for your rights, oh my US brethren).
EU gun laws are just too tight, it's insulting that a guy who was trained and exelled in shooting guns in the national service he did for his country, isnt even allowed a 22 plinker licence! And, no I do not have a criminal record. Think about it.
But for my four or five inch barrel (why dont they ever marry the two and make just 4 and a half inch barrels, and satisfy both needs at once)?
I mean, now that ceramic barrels are just coming into the fore in more expencive SVI type guns 'for example', with threads that start halfway in the barrel! And then only with a very low turn rate and accelerate at the end to produce amazing spins ect... I belive that as guns get more and more sophisticated, we should follow up by taking the most modern ammo to go with them, and get the best possbile results!
YOURS TRULY: Mr Poundr.
P.S. please give your oppinion, learning (I wish that any erronious info would be corrected, for I am but a student in this great hobby of ours), or just pictures, links ect, then please let rip like a 6.8mm fmj boat tail! and share!
Here is something that everybody should be aware of, very expencive custom guns, that use some of the newest tech in their guns, there is even s gun builder, that a Finnish gun mag used to produce the most coolest hangun I have ever seen in .40s&wcal!!! It cost 'only' about four thousand dollars...
But, the thing is that there is no other like it on this planet as far as the article writer and his buddy who ordered the gun knew about! So, if you really want a supercool gun, here is: http://www.sviguns.com/
This other place is also good, If Kimber 1911s are mercedes benzes of 45apc's, then I guess these are kind of Rolls Royce's! Here check it out: http://www.nighthawkcustom.com/detail.aspx?ID=2#
But otherwize it became an endangered species.
Also, what is kind of funny is that Smith & Wesson basically took the 10mm, made it a bit shorter, and out came the .40cal S&W!!! Now this one has been very succesfull, and why not? It's a good bullet... But the 10mm is better!
Now, as I see it America has been in the nostalgic 45apc 'thing' for a couple of years, and as it starts to wear off, there is new opportunities to really look at ammo, I for one do not understand why the NATO countries havent taken to the 6.8mm rounds specially developed to make a follower for the .223rem/5.56NATO. I understand that as many NATO countries are involved in war at Afganistans and/or Iraq's jihhadi fields, so it isnt the time to change ones ammo... But the change is shurely coming, it would be dumb not to, even though special forces of US tried new 75grain extra long range ammo in their Socom m-16 rifles, and pushed the 'very accurate' boundary from the normal circa 300 meters to about 700 meters, how much this had to do with the new ammo, and how much with the gun is unknown, probably a bit of both...
But, in the handgun, it somehow makes me sad that the US special forces are going back to the 45apc, as there are more modern rounds out there, do not get me wrong, the 45apc is a great round, no question, and so are all the other classics, the thing is that NEW ammo has been developed, and it's by far better! Put that together with new guns, and guns in general will start to have better performances.
Think about the Socom, having become more or less the new gun for the US Army, but as it now fires 6.8mm ammo, it's range is now about 800 meters, as all the new rifles have somekind of special zoom sights...
Or in handguns, the army, and cops, and regurlar citizens packed new guns from the major manufacturers, taking full advantage of the 10mm's powerful, straight ballistic qualities... Civilians and cops, defend themselves with rounds that 'mushroom' on impact, but if miss, they are of frangible qualities and thus pretty much stop onto the face of the brick wall they have hit...
And, for those into practical I do not have to tell of the qualities of the 10mm, as this is the only reason why the rounds and guns for them are still arround...
So, why not the sig357? I hear somebody saying, indeed, indeed, now there is a modern good bullet that is similar in performace, the sig357, is a .40s&w case with a 9mm round on it, thus giving the extra gunpowder to push the bullet into faster realms... Probably the speeds are similar to the 10mm, so the only difference is that the sig357 fits more rounds into a clip, but get's smaller wound tracts, hitting power is pretty similar I belive... The 10mm going a bit further before what I call the 'ballistic droop', happens.
As you know, rounds usually go pretty straight, until that critical loss of speed has started to take over with ever increasing co-operation from gravity, in other words, they go straight, start to bend down a bit, and then cometh the great downward bend that happens rather fast, but do not be fooled, in ww1 and to some extent ww2 when people were really good with their shooting, this was taken advantage of, the maxim mg's then in use with all sides, were sometimes set behind a hill, and pre-measured so that they knew exactly where their bullets would start to fall down onto which area, and one guy would act as a forward observer, and give the sign, the enemy would be in dire straights when bullets started to whizz as if from nowhere, and they still had enough power to kill men, so there.
Anyway, I wish that more of the big gun manufacturers would make 10mm bullets, and design good double stack clips for it. Also the 357sig is imho much more worth the trouble than a .40s&w, which again, I think is a good round, but there are better imho.
And as for the 45apc, we know it will never go away, I'm only dumbfounded that all these fancy gunmakers, like Kimber for example are such traditionals, that they still turn out the otherwize wonderfully improved, and beautiful model 1911, but cant bother to put that respecful attitude into increasing the clip from that ridiculous 7 round thing that many a multi thousand dollar 1911 still comes with! It's completely incomprehencible to me, it's like saying, please put these model 1936 brakes in my new BMW, I just love the feel of them... I mean, the bullets and propellants ect for the 45apc have gone up, and so forth...
Think about this, the 45apc and 9mm parabellum have been with us from before ww1 unless I'm off with a couple of years with the 45.
Now, we can have model 1911 guns, firing 10mm ammo no probs, and still honour the venerable old vet... And anyway, if I had to choose a consealable 'panic self defence' gun, I would go probably for wartrhog's wonderfully compact, but angry little 45apc spitter! (That is if I lived in a country where getting licences isnt from hell, and using a gun for self defence doesnt get you into jail pretty much automatically, be thankful for your rights, oh my US brethren).
EU gun laws are just too tight, it's insulting that a guy who was trained and exelled in shooting guns in the national service he did for his country, isnt even allowed a 22 plinker licence! And, no I do not have a criminal record. Think about it.But for my four or five inch barrel (why dont they ever marry the two and make just 4 and a half inch barrels, and satisfy both needs at once)?
I mean, now that ceramic barrels are just coming into the fore in more expencive SVI type guns 'for example', with threads that start halfway in the barrel! And then only with a very low turn rate and accelerate at the end to produce amazing spins ect... I belive that as guns get more and more sophisticated, we should follow up by taking the most modern ammo to go with them, and get the best possbile results!
YOURS TRULY: Mr Poundr.
P.S. please give your oppinion, learning (I wish that any erronious info would be corrected, for I am but a student in this great hobby of ours), or just pictures, links ect, then please let rip like a 6.8mm fmj boat tail! and share!
Here is something that everybody should be aware of, very expencive custom guns, that use some of the newest tech in their guns, there is even s gun builder, that a Finnish gun mag used to produce the most coolest hangun I have ever seen in .40s&wcal!!! It cost 'only' about four thousand dollars...
But, the thing is that there is no other like it on this planet as far as the article writer and his buddy who ordered the gun knew about! So, if you really want a supercool gun, here is: http://www.sviguns.com/
This other place is also good, If Kimber 1911s are mercedes benzes of 45apc's, then I guess these are kind of Rolls Royce's! Here check it out: http://www.nighthawkcustom.com/detail.aspx?ID=2#
