What If We’re Wrong?

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The Liberal

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Most of us see the 2A and RKBA as absolutes, a right explicitly identified by the Founders to allow us to own, carry and use anything. But what if (hypothetically), the Founders had a different interpretation, and could clearly tell us so?

Would your personal opinion change?
 
Most of us see the 2A and RKBA as absolutes, a right explicitly identified by the Founders to allow us to own, carry and use anything. But what if (hypothetically), the Founders had a different interpretation, and could clearly tell us so?

Would your personal opinion change?

What if the Founders saw an armed populace familiar with the use of their arms crucial for maintaining a free state and (hypothetically) told us so, explcitily, would it change the opinion of those who want to trampel our civil rights?
 
What if the FF came back and said only the State shall have arms? Would you be good with that?
 
Your username probably isn't going to lend itself to much open debate.

Wrong about what exactly?

There are like 27 words to the whole amendment.
At worst, one could argue firearm ownership should be limited to militias, which are easy enough for nearly anyone to form or join.

An immediate inference would then be that ALL constitutional rights have been misinterpreted?

Do the people breaking the law and murdering with firearms get a different interpretation?

I'm not sure what the point is here. Just to stir the pot?
 
The Founders had fought a revolutionary war against the largest superpower the world had ever seen. The 2nd admendment was meant to protect the exact weapons that people want to try and ban. To assume they would want to limit the arms that the people have access to doesn't make any sense to me.
 
Most of us see the 2A and RKBA as absolutes, a right explicitly identified by the Founders to allow us to own, carry and use anything.

That would be because the founders clearly explained the reasoning for the system of government they left us in numerous sources, to include the Federalist Papers.

But what if (hypothetically), the Founders had a different interpretation, and could clearly tell us so?

Would your personal opinion change?

No, my opinion regarding arms wouldn't change, but my opinion on the founders would. I'd place them in the same category as other revolutionaries throughout history, to include such despots as Guevaro, Castro, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc... the types who threw off the yoke of oppressive regimes only to deny fundamental natural rights to those they claim to have liberated.

The American Revolution and the nation that resulted are outliers in the course of history in that those who gained power actually believed that the proper place for that power was the people, not the state.
 
If the FF should be disposed to argue that humans had no right to defend themselves against their aggressors? That it was "bad" to do so? I would argue that point.
Please, go on...
 
If if’s and butts were candy and nuts we would all have a merry Christmas.

If the founders of this country came back today and wanted to talk to me I would listen for sure and I don’t even believe in ghosts.

I guess I don’t understand the title, “what if we’re wrong”. Do you mean what if they were wrong?

the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

That’s pretty clear to me.

But what if (hypothetically), the Founders had a different interpretation, and could clearly tell us so?

What if we had video of the founders explaining that the people (yes normal guys and gals) should have everything that the .gov has (hypothetically)?


That would just be another thing people that don’t believe in the principles of this Country disagree with and want to change.
 
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What if they came back and stated, for fact and clarification, that no infringements meant no infringements of any kind to every American. Would that change the minds of the antis?

That’s pretty clear. No.

If they were on CNN tomorrow, they would be introduced as the slave owning, homophobic, women hating, old white men, fill in the blank with any other talking point that is not on topic....

You talk with anyone that wants to change what is written and they either try and change the definitions of words or tell you that “today” things don’t mean what they did back then (aka change definitions).
 
The Liberal, have you ever read the Preamble to the Bill of Rights? It explains the purpose thereof: To restrain the State against abuse of power. Hard to do that if you are unarmed and it has become obvious that peaceful protests and honest elections do not suffice.

Further, numerous letters from both Adams and Jefferson make it patently obvious that they strongly believed in the right of free people to be armed--and they did the majority of the writing of the BOR.

There once was a wall clock called a Regulator. Kept accurate time. Oughta give a clue about the word usage of the 18th and 19th centuries. Back then was not like today's world with our nit-picky uber-surplus of regulations. Basically, in the period 1776-1792, there were no such things as regulations as we know them today.

But the bottom line is that an individual or a large group of individuals--the people--has an absolute right to repel gratuitous hostile efforts from any source.
 
Most of us see the 2A and RKBA as absolutes, a right explicitly identified by the Founders to allow us to own, carry and use anything.
In my opinion, it would be more productive to start by asking questions rather than with a pronouncement of what it is that most of "us" believe.

When you start with a strawman and then work from there with that as a foundation, it makes productive discussion difficult, if not impossible.

I'm going to ignore your preface and answer your question as if it were asked by itself, without prelude, and without getting into what "we" believe or don't believe.
...
what if (hypothetically), the Founders <believed that the 2A did not mean what it says> and could clearly tell us so?

Would your personal opinion change?
My personal opinion of the Founders would change. There just isn't a lot of ambiguity and shades of meaning in the documents that they meant to stand as a foundation for the country that they were building. If it turned out that they had somehow really botched the statement of the 2A so badly that it wasn't actually intended to mean what it clearly says, that would be very disappointing.
 
Most of us see the 2A and RKBA as absolutes, a right explicitly identified by the Founders to allow us to own, carry and use anything. But what if (hypothetically), the Founders had a different interpretation, and could clearly tell us so?

Would your personal opinion change?

First off, the rights were not granted to us or allowed by the Founders as many others have mentioned. They are rights inherently given to every human by our creator. Why on earth would you think they meant any different than they stated in black and white? Do you think their position would have changed if they were around today or would their original position have strengthened? I really don’t understand exactly why you are here. You seem to be anti gun at heart despite your argument otherwise. In fact, earlier you said the following:

“The Liberal said:
What makes you think you have a say?

Most Americans support stricter gun controls. Most Americans are tired of mass shootings and useless “thoughts and prayers” and gun community bleating. Most of us are tired of the gun community’s lobbyists serving as a thinly-veiled arm of the Kremlin. Most Americans see gun owners as the deplorable third of our society that needs to be corrected of we are to solve problems. And we do almost nothing to change that perception.

So what will you do when the laws and Constitution are followed and gun control gets stricter?

So, I’m not really sure how to respond to you. You say most Americans support stricter gun control. Where? How many? What proof is there? Show me. Do these same Americans support stricter laws on driving cars, drugs, healthcare malpractice, fast food and so on? Many of us here are tired of anti’s going against our way of life all because it would make them feel better. Why should we cave to your desires and wishes when we get nothing in return other than more or less being called a disease as you pretty much mention above? I think a lot of us would agree that the so called people telling us that we are a disease should look in the mirror.

How can freedom loving people be holding the country back? Please explain this. Do you think more government interference and control will really better the country vs a true capitalistic society with little government intrusion where the only thing holding an individual back is themselves? There is a reason the US has been so successful and it has little to do with the government running peoples lives.

Why should I change their perception of who I am? I’m not harming anyone or doing anything to these people. Why do I need to do anything? They don’t seem to want to get to know any of us or our viewpoints. Their minds are made up. You say it’s our fault but I say it is theirs. I know people of all walks of life and have had many friends on the left side of the fence that have come around and started thinking for themselves and found out that I’m not the boogie man that they were led to believe I was. I’ve also had some of them so deeply rooted in their beliefs that they just shunned me once they found out I was a gun owner. They didn’t want to why I had them and were so adamantly opposed to them that they didn’t want to hear facts or learn about them, nothing. They just cut me off. That doesn’t help anything. And from my experience gun owners are the exact opposite. They are some of the nicest most helpful people I’ve ever met.

No sir, many of the lefties are the ones that keep pushing things down my throat that I don’t agree with so from where I’m standing they are the deplorable ones because they seem to hate everything about this country that gave them the opportunity to be where they are in life.

Just out of curiosity, what country do you consider to be at the forefront of civilization? You know the one that the US should seek to be like?
 
The Founding Fathers went to great lengths to compose our guiding documents in such a way as to prevent and thwart all efforts to misinterpret , water down or otherwise undermine their meaning. They had the foresight to know that there would be those who would see those documents as an impediment to their efforts to change this country into something contrary to the free land of limited government they founded and fought for.

And here we are , playing "What if ..."
 
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The question is irrelevant. Our rights are what they are and the founding fathers could have had no idea what was coming. we have no way of knowing what they'd think.

It's like asking if the Write brothers would still have invented airplanes if they knew that some day lunatics would crash them into the World Trade Center.
 
What if Spartacus had a Piper Cub?

He didn't. And the right to self defense against criminals and threats to our individual liberty from enemies both foreign and domestic was not granted by the Founders. The right to keep and bear arms is not given by the second amendment. The second amendment prohibits the making of laws that infringe on that natural and unalienable right. The right is immutable. It cannot be taken away by any act or law. So what the Founders wrote is rather convenient, especially in its simplicity, but hardly necessary.

And the agent provocateur thing is going to get tired quickly.
 
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My interpretation of the 2A is that essentially, we ARE the militia. When we pick up a rifle, and join ranks with our neighbors, in order to maintain our neighborhood stability, or defend our land, we exist in the now, and are
charged and instructed, by the BOR, to be ready with the use of arms, to preserve our liberties and freedoms as needed.

If I am wrong? Well, it surely wouldn't be the first time...
 
From my reading, it seems that the main impetus of the Second Amendment was a grave mistrust of large standing armies, wielded by too powerful governments who were unaccountable to the governed. The idea of the 2A being that in times of need, an army of armed trained men could be quickly raised from the militia. However, since WW2, and disregarding the grave warning of Eisenhower, we have maintained a large standing army...and the government has become less and less accountable to the governed. It would seem that today the 2nd Amendment is more than ever necessary to the security of this free state.
 
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