what if you just don't know?

[beeenbag]

We have done "what if an intruder comes in" threads here and I have even been involved in a few of these debates. I looked and couldn't really come up with anything on what to do if you are not sure whats going on.

I mean there may be cases where the door is getting kicked in and you know what is happening, but what about the "cat" burglar, or could it just be the cat?

I couldn't justifiy hearing something im not sure of and waking the wife, her grabbing my daughter (6 months old) out of her crib (in our room) and getting down on the floor on the other side of the bed, just to realize snow slid off the roof and landed on the picnic table.

We have totes of books and 2 2x6 boards under the bed for cover and she has a .357 mag on her side, so we are covered if we know for sure. I also would not leave the room and we both would have our weapons trained on the bedroom door, "IF" I knew for sure what was going on.

Then again, what if you take it lightly and let them sleep, go check it out to run smack dab into an armed intruder taking light steps. Or you just lay there and try to go back to sleep then your bedroom door squeaks open?

At what point do you distiguish false alarms from the real deal?

 

[txhoghunter]

My outlook on this is better safe than sorry. I would rather lose some sleep one night and make up for it the next than take it lightly and never wake up.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Get a dog.

Harden your home to the point no one can make a quiet entry, and make perimeter checks a habit before bedtime to make sure everything that is supposed to be closed and locked IS closed and locked.

Put motion-activated lights inside your home. See http://www.dealextreme.com/p/motion-activated-6-led-illumination-lamp-3156 for example.

Put simple inexpensive alarms on interior doors that are usually closed at night. See http://reviews.dollartree.com/0550/855931/reviews.htm?sort=hasPhoto for example.

No doubt you can think of more ways to know for sure what's going on inside your home without leaving a place of safety to find out.

lpl

 

[beeenbag]

Well I have 2 dogs, they stay outside. I don't want to spend a bunch of money on the house I live in now because we are currently looking for a farm around here so I don't want to invest much in this house. Im just saying for most people out there, they don't have motion lights inside, or hardened perimeters. Your average person most likely has a dog and locks and thats about it.

I try to make my house as secure as possible and THR has helped me do that in many ways.

I just think alot of situations are judgement calls because no scenerio is going to be the same as you practiced.

 

[9mmepiphany]

It is hard for me to conceive of a security minded homeowner who doesn't have motion sensor lights and doesn't check the locks before turning in...apartment dwellers get a pass on the lights...it isn't like we're suggesting that you have interior motion sensors and remote control cameras.

Even outside dogs should alert you to strangers around the house, but an inside dog is your best "noises in the night" checker.

If you are looking for rationalization to clear your home, because you're not sure about a noise, I'll offer this...It is never a good idea and avoiding taking precautions to make it the only option doesn't make it a better idea

 

[jon86]

If you are looking for rationalization to clear your home, because you're not sure about a noise, I'll offer this...It is never a good idea and avoiding taking precautions to make it the only option doesn't make it a better idea

Very well said.

 

[beeenbag]

If you are looking for rationalization to clear your home, because you're not sure about a noise, I'll offer this...It is never a good idea and avoiding taking precautions to make it the only option doesn't make it a better idea

I think you have misunderstood my scenario.

I don't want to ever have to clear my house, I have a plan (where known intruders exist) that allows me to avoid this for a reason.

Let me guide you into my train of thought that brought about this question.

I was laying in bed totally exhausted, just dozing off, when one of the dogs start barking outside. I am tired so I just act like I don't hear it, my wife does. I tell her that I am not going to look out the window of the opposite end of the house where he was barking, and besides that, we can't defend property only our lives and an intruder has to be inside to have to worry about it. I tell her its probably a deer or something and to go back to sleep. Well we keep laying there and I start thinking, the dog stops barking, and all is quiet. Then the furnace kicks on and the hearing is impaired, you can't hear the small noises inside the house, and nearly nothing outside, when the furnace is on. Then my thought pattern goes something like "What if it was somebody and they befriended my dog, what if by some chance they get inside quietly and make little noise."

I don't think someone could get inside my house without me knowing it. I have an inside motion detector on the wall that is a 50 decible siren when activated, it comes off the wall and is run off of batteries not hard wired so I do take precautions to protect my home and family. I am not a rambo wannabe trying to justify rolling through the hall with my tac light and glock breaching my own doors or anything.

I am just saying every bump in the night does not set off my "code red" alarm and send my family into protect mode. My wife would kill me if she had to rock the baby back to sleep 4 times a night.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Thank you for coming back with additional information. It is hard to give accurate.helpful information without all the facts to start with.

Your conflict is this:

At what point do you distiguish false alarms from the real deal?

and this:

I don't think someone could get inside my house without me knowing it. I have an inside motion detector on the wall that is a 50 decible siren when activated

You don't even have an alarm yet, you're anticipating a false alarm...it is like worrying about carrying a pistol with a chambered round, because the FPB might fail

 

[beeenbag]

so what you are saying is you set your inside alarm and dont worry about a thing unless that alarm sounds. I get that, I am assured that if someone was in the house it would go off. Some people don't have alarms and such, also things happen, batteries die, electronics fail.

When I am dozing/woke up abruptly, I have a very vivid imagination by the way.

 

[xXxplosive]

When our 2 1/2 yr. old German Shepard wakes me, I have to check it out or he won't relax and neither will anyone else....He's the ultimate watch dog.
On the other side of that, wouldn't want LE meeting him comming through the door and having to harm him in any way......We Get Up.....the 3 of us.

Me, Col. Colt and the Shepard.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I'm not talking about other people, I'm addressing the situation that you have described. The situation for other folks was addressed in post #3 and #5

I personally have nosy neighbors, surrounding homes with dogs, motion sensor lights, secure doors, a nightly routine to secure the house, motion sensors and pressure pads in the home. Also there is highly defensible a single access to the living quarters without cover for attackers. To say nothing of the Ninja intruder alarm...sometimes called a loose stair tread...and a centrally located light control panel

You'll have to address issues of your imagination with other professionals...maybe you can fine tune your spidey sense

 

[killchain]

I stepped outside to screaming and fighting one early morning with my .45 in my hand.

Turns out some cops were balling up some guy who was fighting them. One of them looks me up and down, I do the same, and he says, "We got it sir."

So I went inside. I don't think I overreacted.

[EDIT= Just because I get the feeling someone will ask, no... I did not draw down on the officers. I came out the door after I checked the peep at the low ready.]

 

[Valkman]

Whenever we have been woken to noise, it was a cat wrapped in a phone cord or doing something else stupid. Now we also have a dog (who sleeps in our bedroom) so a big part of evaluating the situation is seeing his reaction or lack of. No bark = cat noise.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

I don't think it realistic to barricade yourself or selves in the safe room armed to the teeth and on the phone to the police every time there is an atypical noise in your house. At some point you may have to investigate.

 

[ryanrichmond]

not to get off topic:

Whenever we have been woken to noise, it was a cat wrapped in a phone cord or doing something else stupid.

my cat knocked a cookie sheet off of the counter at 2am one morning. Both my wife and I jumped out of our skin.
The only other time I've readied myself for an intruder is when my buddy decided to show up on my porch at 5:30 in the morning and bang on my door like a maniac. Incidentally, we were due to go shooting that morning but not until 7am. He had showed up early. I guess you could say one of us ALMOST DID go shooting at 5:30

 

[Snowy Rivers]

One entire section of our Carry class is devoted to "Home defense"

Yess the defendable safe room, the phone, the gun and all other good things useful in the deep night time.

We live in a 2400 Sq foot ranch style home 250 yards off a remote rural road.

Animals do come around from time to time. We dont have critters inside any more due to a familiy member with alergies to them.

The phones are all cellular so cutting a phone line is not going to happen.
The bedroom door has a clear view of almost all of the points that anyone could advance to the bedroom door.

Paranoia is a reach Beotch to overcome.

Houses make noises (squeeks, pops and other) when someone is moving about.

If you are really worried about the what if. Install a motion sensor controlled light in an area of the house that will, if activated alert you to the presence of an intruder.

If the hall light pops on at 2am and you and the missus are in the sack, (and the only ones home) good bet that you have a visitor/s

In the quiet of the deep night, the sound of a shotgun being racked can have a distinct chilling effect to anyone thats not supposed to be in the house.

DONT go doing a house search. You frame yourself in the bedroom doorway with the soft green glow of the radio alarm clock behind you, you are a perfect target, BOOOOOOOOM you lose.

If you are quiet and hear continued noises that are obviously human made, make the call to 911, tell them the who, what, where, when and also be sure to tell them you are armed and will use it if need be.

This statement will get the cops there much sooner. As soon as GUN comes into the conversation things change.

If you can hold out and let the cops take care of Johnny Puke you will not have any paperwork. You blow Johnny puke away in the living room and your gonna have to face his MOMMA in court, where she is gonna cry her eyes out, that here little boy would never hurt anyine.

Yeah right, and what was he doing in your living room at 2 am packing a stub nosed revolver.

If your sure its an intruder and you can get out of the house and take cover "SAFELY" do it and avoid having to kill the puke. Let the cops do it and you have no paperwork.

Fire only if you have no choices.

After the 2 -3 second hail of gunfire and the puke is dead at the threshold of the bedroom, the nightmare is just beginning.

The costs of defending yourself in court can be high. OH yesss, very likely it will wind up in court.

You could even be sued civily by the pukes family. Can they win, ?????????/

Never know on that one.

I have seen a couple local shooting cases where the Puke got what was called for, there were no criminal charges brought and the case was closed.
The family of the Puke sued for wrongful death and WON.

Go figure.

If you can do it, let the cops do the shooting, they have huge insurance policies, whole teams of lawyers and plenty of time.

A wrongful death suit can ruin you. Even if you win, the defense costs will be large.

When the chips are down and the intruder is at the threshold, you will have to do whats needed.

You will not recieve any attaboys for offing the puke.
Society has become so soft that they will villify you, the good guy, and likely your picture will be in the news paper as the KILLER and not the home owner who saved his/her family. (Worst case scenario)

Do I paint realistic pictures? you decide, make the wrong decision and the consequences can be a long uphill battle.

Personally, I still believe that I would rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6

I use these same scenarios in class.

The local district attorney had his entire staff go through the class including himself.

The comments after the class were positive and in agreement.

If you dont agree, thats fine, it allowed.

Hope this helps some.

Stay safe my friends

Snowy

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by Snowy Rivers: Hope this helps some.

Well, it doesn't exactly answer the question "At what point do you distiguish false alarms from the real deal?", but I'm not sure how to answer that either.

It does, however, provide excellent advice to those who may not have given much consideration to what to do and what not to do when that bump in the night sounds serious. Thanks for your contribution here.

There are those who will counter with "in my state, I cannot be sued if it is a good shoot." Yes, some states, including mine, have enacted laws providing protection against civil liability in the event of a justified self defense shooting, and that's a good thing. However, it's more complicated than it may appear. There's the question of how one would demonstrate justifiability in the absence of a trial and acquittal in criminal court, there is the issue of the different evidentiary thresholds (reasonable doubt vs. preponderance of the evidence), and there is the fact that most of these laws are relatively new and may not have been thoroughly tested in the court system. Yes, they help by dissuading attorneys from taking questionable cases, but the protection they offer is not air tight.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Thanks

Far too many GOOOOOOOD Folks have not given thought one (1) to what happens after the "Gun Fight at the Bedroom Door"

In some jurisdictions it will all go away real quickly, in others it could drag on for what might seem an eternity.

I dont believe that there is a canned answer to many questions

I tell my students that "there is not a book of solutions to all the scenarios" only the fact that the world is an extremely dynamic place that can change by the split second.

Your just going to have to think it through and be prepared.

DONT ever get caught running in the green Zone (slightly above comatose) always stay alert and in the yellow zone (light duty yellow)

Now for my friends that have served over seas and understand how to bivouac in a combat zone. Heck just set up some claymores around the perimiter and crawl in the sack.

Humor is intended, but you get the idea.

Really no good answer that will totally cover this question.

Snowy

 

[M2 Carbine]

what if you just don't know?

Error on the side of caution.


"I should have......" can be a terrible thing to say.

 

[beeenbag]

Error on the side of caution.


"I should have......" can be a terrible thing to say.

That is a great motto. It should be how it is, but...

Im sure that just about everyone on here has heard something or thought they heard something suspecious and just let it ride because it wasn't "enough" to make you feel threatened. That is kinda what the original question is about, its just hard to put into words. At what point do you feel there is "enough" of a suspicion to get you to enact your security plans? Some people may act on every sound, some may lay in wait until they hear a voice. I know those are extreme examples but you get the picture.

 

[hammerklavier]

To the OP: pick up one of those security systems from Sam's club with the multiple cameras. Install them about your house. Put the monitor in your bedroom. Could be useful in about 16 years

 

[killchain]

Thanks

Far too many GOOOOOOOD Folks have not given thought one (1) to what happens after the "Gun Fight at the Bedroom Door"

In some jurisdictions it will all go away real quickly, in others it could drag on for what might seem an eternity.

I dont believe that there is a canned answer to many questions

I tell my students that "there is not a book of solutions to all the scenarios" only the fact that the world is an extremely dynamic place that can change by the split second.

Your just going to have to think it through and be prepared.

DONT ever get caught running in the green Zone (slightly above comatose) always stay alert and in the yellow zone (light duty yellow)

Now for my friends that have served over seas and understand how to bivouac in a combat zone. Heck just set up some claymores around the perimiter and crawl in the sack.

Humor is intended, but you get the idea.

Really no good answer that will totally cover this question.

Snowy

In the words of my old CO:

"You can't do paperwork if you're dead."

 

[txhoghunter]

I pretty much know what kinds of noises my house (a/c, heater, etc) makes, and something out of the ordinary gets my guard up quite quickly. However, I would not get into a defensive position unless I heard my dogs growl and/or bark. Until then I feel comfortable knowing that they are some of the best alarms I can have.

 

[killchain]

For the record, I don't have a dog.

Just a stupid cat that stares at and mocks me, and cuddles up all nice to the wife.

 

[JohnBiltz]

I say this, if you hear a noise arm yourself. Then stop and listen. Stopping does two things; it gives you a chance to gather intelligence and gives you a chance to gather yourself and wake up. Haste makes waste. There is no reason to rush into the unknown or danger, be cautious and be careful. If its nothing it will not hurt anything if its something its worth taking the time to do it right.