TheDutchman
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Krav Maga is the self-defense and fighting system used by the Israel Defense Forces. Have anyone been trained to use Krav Maga, if so what where your thoughts.
What is Krav Maga?
- Thread starter TheDutchman
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No_Brakes23
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Ahh, I thought Krav Maga was a new Mateba pistol or maybe a .50BMG handgun or something... 
Spreadfire Arms
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i sat in on a Krav Maga class once, it looked very fierce, but then again, they weren't hitting the poop out of each other in a full contact environment either, so I'm not 100% sure how lethal or effective it is.
i do know that LAPD academy is starting to incorporate it into some of their DefTac training.
at the very minimum it'll get you into shape.
i do know that LAPD academy is starting to incorporate it into some of their DefTac training.
at the very minimum it'll get you into shape.
krav maga...is a "no rule" contact combat, thats focus is on doing what is required to win. the moves are a mix, of many arts, but its true focus is in the mind set, of mission goals. It has been around longer then its arrivial to the general public. I have been apart of it, for 5 years....and it works, against most contact combat arts. It is wise to arrive in shape, and ready to mix it up !!!! Many Police departments are teaching a watered down style of krav maga.
Texian Pistolero
member
Even in Israel, Krav Maga ranges from very watered down to kick butt.
I think it comes down to target audience, fitness, and time available.
Often, say a thirty minuite class to a group of girl scouts, is far better in teaching SOMETHING rather than NOTHING.
One of its strong points is that it addresses dealing with disarming grenades, long and short arm disarms, sticks, and field expedient weapons. There is no artificial rejection of weapons/guns found in many more traditional marial arts.
For a supposed no-nonsense street system, I am confused why the inventor is called a "Grandmaster", and wears some weird oriental dress.
My guess is that it is as good as the instructor.
I think it comes down to target audience, fitness, and time available.
Often, say a thirty minuite class to a group of girl scouts, is far better in teaching SOMETHING rather than NOTHING.
One of its strong points is that it addresses dealing with disarming grenades, long and short arm disarms, sticks, and field expedient weapons. There is no artificial rejection of weapons/guns found in many more traditional marial arts.
For a supposed no-nonsense street system, I am confused why the inventor is called a "Grandmaster", and wears some weird oriental dress.
My guess is that it is as good as the instructor.
Drizzt
Member
I just received this email from the studio where I took KM. Steve was my instructor.
Matthew Temkin
Member
I was given a demo of military K.M. at a Swedish army base a few years back and I was very impressed.
But I am not too sure if that is what is being offered at most K.M. schools.
But I am not too sure if that is what is being offered at most K.M. schools.
Albert Shear
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When I was in Israel many years ago I watched an IDF recruit class learning KM. I got to ask several questions of the instructor. The IDF wanted a hand to hand combat/disarming routine and felt the oriental styles were too complicated for the young(18 year old) recruits. They wanted simple, easy to learn and retain, but highy effective for close in use against subjects armed with knives, hand grenades and handguns.
KM is what they came up with.
KM is what they came up with.
You could study it for years and never really know if it works. There is no way to test your techniques.
I would trust a system like Judo where you spar against a fully resisting partner at full force. You will learn what works for you. It does not have all the deadly techniques. The ones you do learn will be more reliable.
I would trust a system like Judo where you spar against a fully resisting partner at full force. You will learn what works for you. It does not have all the deadly techniques. The ones you do learn will be more reliable.
DontBurnMyFlag
Member
i took krav maga for a year. It became really expensive because I was in college. But it was fierce and effective. You didnt spend alot of time doing complex moves and katas. It was over and over conditioning of basic punches, elbows, knees, escapes and groundfighting, and low kicks. It was damn good, and it gets you in shape. Only problem was it was really expensive. I take combat/traditional wing chun kung fu, its a bit more complex but I know 23 ways to break a persons arm/dislocate shoulder now.
"its a bit more complex but I know 23 ways to break a persons arm/dislocate shoulder now."
...and unless you have trained repeatedly with a resisting partner full speed until the point of submission, I doubt you will be able to pull this off in real life.
...and unless you have trained repeatedly with a resisting partner full speed until the point of submission, I doubt you will be able to pull this off in real life.
Don Gwinn
Moderator Emeritus
Have to agree with Dave here, Wing Chun (like TKD, right Dave? ) has a reputation for teaching all the principles of Wing Chun but next to nothing about getting punched in the face.
I can't tell you if Krav Maga is good or not, but I'll say what I always say in these threads: I'm hearing a LOT about frauds setting up shop as KM instructors in the U.S. It seems anybody who has an Israeli accent can become a former Israeli specops commando assassin when he gets to the U.S., the better to teach gullible people tae kwon do renamed Krav Maga.
) has a reputation for teaching all the principles of Wing Chun but next to nothing about getting punched in the face.I can't tell you if Krav Maga is good or not, but I'll say what I always say in these threads: I'm hearing a LOT about frauds setting up shop as KM instructors in the U.S. It seems anybody who has an Israeli accent can become a former Israeli specops commando assassin when he gets to the U.S., the better to teach gullible people tae kwon do renamed Krav Maga.
fjolnirsson
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Cosmoline
Member
The best display of Krav Maga on film was when Indiana Jones blew away the guy with the sword In it's true form it's a martial art without the "art." You do the most damage possible with the least risk to yourself. It should be ruthless, brutal and without any deference to oriental notions of honor and sacrifice. Make the other bastard die for his country, in other words. Krav maga means you blow the guy away instead of doing a ninja dance with him. Or you bash his brains out from behind. True Krav Maga isn't something you can really do in a mixed martial arts competition, since it would involve trying to seriously injure or kill the foe as quickly as possible with the best means available. In other words, you wouldn't get into a ring with they guy. You'd wait until he was dancing around the cage taunting you, then get a rifle and blow his face through the back of his head 
In the real world, you would never knowingly go into a situation where you'll have to use Krav Maga techniques, no matter how big your brass ones are. If you know the guy is going to attack you, you take care of him from a distance without having to use the close combat disarming methods.
In it's true form it's a martial art without the "art." You do the most damage possible with the least risk to yourself. It should be ruthless, brutal and without any deference to oriental notions of honor and sacrifice. Make the other bastard die for his country, in other words. Krav maga means you blow the guy away instead of doing a ninja dance with him. Or you bash his brains out from behind. True Krav Maga isn't something you can really do in a mixed martial arts competition, since it would involve trying to seriously injure or kill the foe as quickly as possible with the best means available. In other words, you wouldn't get into a ring with they guy. You'd wait until he was dancing around the cage taunting you, then get a rifle and blow his face through the back of his head In the real world, you would never knowingly go into a situation where you'll have to use Krav Maga techniques, no matter how big your brass ones are. If you know the guy is going to attack you, you take care of him from a distance without having to use the close combat disarming methods.Glock Glockler
Member
There is a huge difference between real Krav Maga and the watered down nonsense I call Pop Maga (popular Maga). Real Krav does not have high kicks, and they do not punch above the neck because you can easily break your hand which does not jive well for a people who put a premium on keeping your trigger finger in working order.
Ultimately, you want to find an instructor who understands the scientific application of movement in a physical conflict and who is willing to train you in that in a real world setting.
Will you be training to deal with conflicts in a confined space like an elevator, or in a stairwell?
Will you train to deal with multiple attackers and/or attackers with weapons?
What about while you're in a car?
Real Krav actually does go into much of this, so it really depends on if you can find a solid teacher who is open with his knowledge and experience.
Ultimately, you want to find an instructor who understands the scientific application of movement in a physical conflict and who is willing to train you in that in a real world setting.
Will you be training to deal with conflicts in a confined space like an elevator, or in a stairwell?
Will you train to deal with multiple attackers and/or attackers with weapons?
What about while you're in a car?
Real Krav actually does go into much of this, so it really depends on if you can find a solid teacher who is open with his knowledge and experience.
PowderBurn
Member
Krav Maga...
Didn't he play left wing for the Islanders?
Didn't he play left wing for the Islanders?
Texian Pistolero
member
No, he was some kind of a Croatian refugee in an early episode of "Magnum, P.I."
TheDutchman
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So would anyone here take Krav Maga or recommend another Martial Art form.
Glock Glockler
Member
Dutchman,
A system's effectiveness is primarily dependant on your willingness to put in effort, not just in training, to learn why things work and to apply those principles throughout. I knew someone who actually learned a lot of good Kali from a horrible teacher, he was basically watching everything the instructor was doing and asked himself if it was practical, why or why not, and how to adapt things to make them better. This type of active learning will always make you better than someone who just wants to passively take in what the teacher says and become Neo. How many people out there have been training in some type of activity and make minimal progress over the years? Is it that they like "training" or they are training to improve?
The next step is to find a quality instructor, one who is on the same page as you. Hopefully he looks into the science behind movement and knows the principles behind something working as opposed to just trying to replicate movement and expecting the same result every time. It would be nice if the instructor has plenty of real world experience to back up what he is teaching, this is helpful in seperating a lot of fact from theory, but also it gives you insight as to their paradigms regarding training. Why is it that something works or does not work for him, or perhaps the questions should be why they are comfortable with something?
Another thing that makes a great instructor, and I know this sounds weird, is whether or not he will let you feel his body during a movement. Ultimately, the core of what we're after if effective and efficient movement, and a lot of times it appears as if very high level practicioners are barely doing anything and getting great results. Many people claim that the students are going with it and that it's BS, and in some cases they might be right, but what often happens is that there is a lot of movement that they just dont recognize. If you ever look at any footage of Mifune (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...61394/sr=11-1/ref=sr_11_1/104-8595616-8919910)
or of Okamoto (http://www.daitoryu-roppokai.org/) they are prime examples of people who hardly appear to move.
I took a VERY hard shot this past weekend from a guest instructor who generated a lot of force with little movement, though he explained that his punch was actually generating energy from his calfs and feet, thighs, hips, shoulders, arms, and wrists, etc (entire body, basically). What seemed like a simple punch was actually 30 movements synergistically combined. It took a lot of training and thinking to become proficient at all of those movements and then to combine them but after years of training he can do it without giving it any thought. The scary thing is that he was actually going light on me
A system's effectiveness is primarily dependant on your willingness to put in effort, not just in training, to learn why things work and to apply those principles throughout. I knew someone who actually learned a lot of good Kali from a horrible teacher, he was basically watching everything the instructor was doing and asked himself if it was practical, why or why not, and how to adapt things to make them better. This type of active learning will always make you better than someone who just wants to passively take in what the teacher says and become Neo. How many people out there have been training in some type of activity and make minimal progress over the years? Is it that they like "training" or they are training to improve?
The next step is to find a quality instructor, one who is on the same page as you. Hopefully he looks into the science behind movement and knows the principles behind something working as opposed to just trying to replicate movement and expecting the same result every time. It would be nice if the instructor has plenty of real world experience to back up what he is teaching, this is helpful in seperating a lot of fact from theory, but also it gives you insight as to their paradigms regarding training. Why is it that something works or does not work for him, or perhaps the questions should be why they are comfortable with something?
Another thing that makes a great instructor, and I know this sounds weird, is whether or not he will let you feel his body during a movement. Ultimately, the core of what we're after if effective and efficient movement, and a lot of times it appears as if very high level practicioners are barely doing anything and getting great results. Many people claim that the students are going with it and that it's BS, and in some cases they might be right, but what often happens is that there is a lot of movement that they just dont recognize. If you ever look at any footage of Mifune (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...61394/sr=11-1/ref=sr_11_1/104-8595616-8919910)
or of Okamoto (http://www.daitoryu-roppokai.org/) they are prime examples of people who hardly appear to move.
I took a VERY hard shot this past weekend from a guest instructor who generated a lot of force with little movement, though he explained that his punch was actually generating energy from his calfs and feet, thighs, hips, shoulders, arms, and wrists, etc (entire body, basically). What seemed like a simple punch was actually 30 movements synergistically combined. It took a lot of training and thinking to become proficient at all of those movements and then to combine them but after years of training he can do it without giving it any thought. The scary thing is that he was actually going light on me
Good advice on both Muy Thai and BJJ but those same critisicms apply to those systems as well. Groundfighting should be part of everyone's curriculum for real self defense but there's a lot of sport stuff taught in the standard BJJ class that doesn't cut it in a glass-littered parking lot or God forbid, against more than one guy. Fumbling around for that cool juji you could pull off in class against a semi-compliant partner doesn't cut it in the street. Make sure the context fits.
It is ridiculous to hear the "glass covered parking lot" criticism of BJJ. Think about it. How many glass covered parking lots have you been in?
Fighting multiple opponents is a fantasy. You need a weapon. A good grappler has skill that can help defending take downs. Then, you can possibly run.
The average guy has NO clue how to defend against a good grappler. I roll with new guys all the time. It is like taking candy from a baby. In BJJ, the partners are not compliant.
Fighting multiple opponents is a fantasy. You need a weapon. A good grappler has skill that can help defending take downs. Then, you can possibly run.
The average guy has NO clue how to defend against a good grappler. I roll with new guys all the time. It is like taking candy from a baby. In BJJ, the partners are not compliant.
El Tejon
Member
Grappling defeats striking and kicking. That's been demonstrated a number of times through history. Di tang qin na shr works. dave'06 is a 10 year veteran of BJJ, he's been around the block a few times.
FWIW, I see a large number of fights in my line of work. The ground is where one should expect to find oneself.
TheDutchman, if it matters, I believe that the instructor trumps the system. Many roads to Niravana, find a good instructor, train hard, and don't quit. I wish you well.
FWIW, I see a large number of fights in my line of work. The ground is where one should expect to find oneself.
TheDutchman, if it matters, I believe that the instructor trumps the system. Many roads to Niravana, find a good instructor, train hard, and don't quit. I wish you well.
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