It's more polite to call "shenanigans", but I think you're right.
What is purpose of Mannlicher stock on hunting rifle?
- Thread starter bushmaster1313
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KurtC,
are you referring to the Mannlicher 90 to 95 models or the Modell 88? The Kar88 was developped in Germany and used by German cavalry but also adopted by Austria. The Swedish military had ordered 1894 carbines from Mauser for their cavalry. Carbines had become popular with European cavalry mainly after the introduction of the clip-fed magazine.
J-Bar
Member
Float Pilot
Member
My cousin-in-law who is a stock maker in Bavaria says that the Mannlicher style stock is still one of his most demanded stocks by European hunters.
Recently this question was asked by someone in the Rifleman Magazine and they did not supply a good answer.
The full stock design goes way back to the first match locks and wheel locks, so it pre-dates the cavalry carbines of the late 1800 by a couple centuries.
A full length stock was most helpful while grasping and loading any muzzle loading rifle.
Remember the Kentucky and Pennsylvania Rifles were mostly designed by German Gunsmiths who brought their Jaeger (Jäger) Rifle designs with them.
Although unlike the American Long Rifles, many of the European Jäger (hunter) rifles were shorter. Being better suited for the hunting conditions found in Bavaria and Austria.
The modern (from the 1890s to present) carbine wearing a full Length Mannlicher stock does a few things.
1. It does protect the barrel from knocks, rubbing against pack frames and other damage. Most Europeans could only afford one nice rifle, why ruin it with a bloody finger print.
2. It allows the forward sling swivel to be moved further forward so it can be slung like a longer rifle. Also making across the chest slinging possible during climbing.
3. It allows the rifle to be rested over a horse saddle, tree stump, log or back-pack (the later is very popular in Germany) without any ill affects to the accuracy, no matter where the rifle is rested.
4. It changes the balance of a short handy carbine to a more rifle-like balance and thus has less muzzle rise when firing.
5. It allows the forearm to be grasped anywhere along its length while aiming and firing. Thus a short carbine can be shouldered, aimed and fired by a large man without much thought.
I have submitted this answer to the NRA American Rifleman Magazine.
Recently this question was asked by someone in the Rifleman Magazine and they did not supply a good answer.
The full stock design goes way back to the first match locks and wheel locks, so it pre-dates the cavalry carbines of the late 1800 by a couple centuries.
A full length stock was most helpful while grasping and loading any muzzle loading rifle.
Remember the Kentucky and Pennsylvania Rifles were mostly designed by German Gunsmiths who brought their Jaeger (Jäger) Rifle designs with them.
Although unlike the American Long Rifles, many of the European Jäger (hunter) rifles were shorter. Being better suited for the hunting conditions found in Bavaria and Austria.
The modern (from the 1890s to present) carbine wearing a full Length Mannlicher stock does a few things.
1. It does protect the barrel from knocks, rubbing against pack frames and other damage. Most Europeans could only afford one nice rifle, why ruin it with a bloody finger print.
2. It allows the forward sling swivel to be moved further forward so it can be slung like a longer rifle. Also making across the chest slinging possible during climbing.
3. It allows the rifle to be rested over a horse saddle, tree stump, log or back-pack (the later is very popular in Germany) without any ill affects to the accuracy, no matter where the rifle is rested.
4. It changes the balance of a short handy carbine to a more rifle-like balance and thus has less muzzle rise when firing.
5. It allows the forearm to be grasped anywhere along its length while aiming and firing. Thus a short carbine can be shouldered, aimed and fired by a large man without much thought.
I have submitted this answer to the NRA American Rifleman Magazine.
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bushmaster1313
Member
I have thought about getting a used Ruger No. 1 RSI in .270, 308 or 30-06
sappyg
Member
Balrag may be right... don't knock it till you try it.
No possibility that the longer service rifles being cut down were simply lopped off in front of the issue stock to make them carbines? That's happened more than once. Even in new production, not changing the furniture means no extra parts on what was largely hand made items.
It's been typical in my understanding of historical research to come up with all sorts of uniquely complicated reasoning to justify what was, at the time, a simple decision. The barrel was viewed as simply too long and cut off before the stock. Sporterizing in it's earliest form.
As for the walking stick, it's part of the German experience to use exactly that. The huntsman wouldn't carry the rifle, it would be handed to him by his gameskeeper or bearer. The English did the same. You don't beat a valuable custom handmade gunstock on the rocky ground to keep your balance. You use the old Volks stick you take outdoors whenever you go - it was a self defense weapon in it's own right in the day, and dirt common among the people. The nobility are noted for emulating them to some degree when out on their land, what was commonly accepted as attire and accessories in that society was what was used. Herr Baron Von Nobility certainly didn't parade about in his Court robes.
Live in a foreign country for a few years, you get the idea. It's not something you can read in a book.
It's been typical in my understanding of historical research to come up with all sorts of uniquely complicated reasoning to justify what was, at the time, a simple decision. The barrel was viewed as simply too long and cut off before the stock. Sporterizing in it's earliest form.
As for the walking stick, it's part of the German experience to use exactly that. The huntsman wouldn't carry the rifle, it would be handed to him by his gameskeeper or bearer. The English did the same. You don't beat a valuable custom handmade gunstock on the rocky ground to keep your balance. You use the old Volks stick you take outdoors whenever you go - it was a self defense weapon in it's own right in the day, and dirt common among the people. The nobility are noted for emulating them to some degree when out on their land, what was commonly accepted as attire and accessories in that society was what was used. Herr Baron Von Nobility certainly didn't parade about in his Court robes.
Live in a foreign country for a few years, you get the idea. It's not something you can read in a book.
German hunters to this day use a shooting stick, they no longer use a walking stick. They went out of fashion a long time ago but the shooting sticks stayed! German hunters never had a rifle bearer since the inception of cartridge rifles. Why would they use the rifle as a walking stick? This is some lore that is absolutely nonsense.
You want to argue that with me? Na dann aber viel Spaß!
sappyg
Member
PzBren, it's not worth arguing the point really. there are several good suggestions here as to the purpose or evolution of the stock including yours.
i have used my rifle for "ballance" in fairly mountenous terrain on more than one occasion but not as a dedicated walking stick.
IMHO this stock shines in a mountain environment. 'sporterizing' a millitary carbine makes the most sense to me. the walking stick thing may have been an unintended bennefit.
i have used my rifle for "ballance" in fairly mountenous terrain on more than one occasion but not as a dedicated walking stick.
IMHO this stock shines in a mountain environment. 'sporterizing' a millitary carbine makes the most sense to me. the walking stick thing may have been an unintended bennefit.
Dr T
Member
Bushmaster1313,
I have a No. 1 RSI in 30-06. It is marvelously well balanced. Mine is NOT for sale, but I have seen some similar ones on the auction sites.
I have a No. 1 RSI in 30-06. It is marvelously well balanced. Mine is NOT for sale, but I have seen some similar ones on the auction sites.
J-Bar
Member
Hurry, friends; less than an hour to get your bid submitted!!
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=203923982
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=203923982
Float Pilot
Member
Cougfan2
Member
Damn you guys. You are killin' me! I have always wanted a Mannlicher stock woods rifle. This is one of those rifles that I don't need, but I just want because they are so damn beautiful.
macadore
Member
Does anyone make a left handed Mannlicher?
Arkansas Paul
Member
Haha!
I understand. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I truthfully have everything I need. There's still a long list of things I want though, and I doubt I'll ever stop buying. I mentioned before in this thread, but one of the wants is a mannlicher stocked Ruger #1. Man, they're just awesome!
Read and heard that hoary old explanation about use as a walking stick more than once in the past. Never knew whether to take it with salt or not.
It's all academic to me: I don't really care about the why behind the full-length forend. I like that look and have done so since first seeing them illustrated in an early '50s edition of Shooter's Bible my Dad still had laying around when I was a kid.
Couple of different views of a Mannlicher Schoenauer .30-06 in the woods back in October:
Here's that same M/S, another Remington Model 7 .350 like KodiakBeer's and a brand new 10/22 Intl. I traded into just yesterday:
It's all academic to me: I don't really care about the why behind the full-length forend. I like that look and have done so since first seeing them illustrated in an early '50s edition of Shooter's Bible my Dad still had laying around when I was a kid.
Couple of different views of a Mannlicher Schoenauer .30-06 in the woods back in October:
Here's that same M/S, another Remington Model 7 .350 like KodiakBeer's and a brand new 10/22 Intl. I traded into just yesterday:
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