what is second strike capability??
- Thread starter madhatta
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10-Ring
Member
Basically, if you pull he trigger, hear a "click," you can pull the trigger again w/o having to cycle another round.
To expand a little on what 10-Ring said:
All you have to do is pull the trigger again if the primer doesn't ignite. Some pistols require some manipulation of the action to get the trigger block to reset.
Second strike capability is typical of DAO pistols, and it's usually a good way to determine if the action is really DAO.
All you have to do is pull the trigger again if the primer doesn't ignite. Some pistols require some manipulation of the action to get the trigger block to reset.
Second strike capability is typical of DAO pistols, and it's usually a good way to determine if the action is really DAO.
Ebbtide
Member
Would the kel-tec p-11 fit into the "second strike" definition, or would it only be revolvers (a "second strike" on a different primer)?
Just wondering.
ehenz
Just wondering.
ehenz
The P-11 has Second Strike capabilities, but the P-32 (and I'm pretty sure the new P-3AT) does not.
to check insert a snap cap, pull the trigger. Then if you can pull the trigger again and the hammer falls again, it has Second Strike Capability.
All Pistols that are labeled as DAO's don't necessarily have it like P-32's, and Glocks (I know the Glock is called a "safe action"...)
to check insert a snap cap, pull the trigger. Then if you can pull the trigger again and the hammer falls again, it has Second Strike Capability.
All Pistols that are labeled as DAO's don't necessarily have it like P-32's, and Glocks (I know the Glock is called a "safe action"...)
Frohickey
Member
Is second strike capability even worth it?
If I have a click and no bang, I'm going to immediately slap the magazine in, rack the slide and try to fire again.
Because your second strike trigger pull could be on an empty chamber.
If I have a click and no bang, I'm going to immediately slap the magazine in, rack the slide and try to fire again.
Because your second strike trigger pull could be on an empty chamber.
Comes with DAOs and my preferred CCWs are DAO pistols.
I haven't had one, but hard primers do exist, and I think SSC is a feature.
The second trigger pull takes about 2/10 of a second, and I can't do the slap/rack/pull drill in anything like that.
Besides, in an SD situation I'm going to be automatically pulling the trigger again anyway, bang or not....
that's what I was about to say....
that in a high stress situation, you may not even notice it did not go bang, especially if the other guy is shooting back at you...
But I am not overly concerned with a carry gun having to have it, but it is kinda nice.
H
Handy
Guest
Second strike:
To happen with a trigger stroke alone, the trigger must be a full DA of some type. Beretta, Ruger or Sig DA/SA or DAO fall into this category.
I woudn't say a revolver doesn't have second strike. You are always able to go around for another try.
I would also argue that any SA pistol with an exposed hammer has a kind of second strike ability since you can hit the round again with the manipulations of one hand - this isn't a stupid idea, either. The 1911 and most other SA autos were designed to be carried hammer down. Along the same lines, a P7 has second strike, too. You release then recock the lever.
A gun that requires slide manipulation to reset truly lacks second strike. While you can recock it by short stroking the slide, this is a bad idea. Under stress, pulling back a little to far will result in a jam. With a Glock or XD it's better to just eject the bad round.
To happen with a trigger stroke alone, the trigger must be a full DA of some type. Beretta, Ruger or Sig DA/SA or DAO fall into this category.
I woudn't say a revolver doesn't have second strike. You are always able to go around for another try.
I would also argue that any SA pistol with an exposed hammer has a kind of second strike ability since you can hit the round again with the manipulations of one hand - this isn't a stupid idea, either. The 1911 and most other SA autos were designed to be carried hammer down. Along the same lines, a P7 has second strike, too. You release then recock the lever.
A gun that requires slide manipulation to reset truly lacks second strike. While you can recock it by short stroking the slide, this is a bad idea. Under stress, pulling back a little to far will result in a jam. With a Glock or XD it's better to just eject the bad round.
H
Handy
Guest
Yeah, well I didn't get "Blackhawk's Big Book of Standard Firearms Definitions, Unabridged, 2002 Ed." yet. So maybe you could help with the following quandries:
If you have a gun designed to be carried hammer down with a SA trigger (Radom, Mab, Firestar), does this pistol even have FIRST strike capability?
Second question, about revolvers: A single shot DAO derringer has second strike and it sounds like, "click, BANG" if you get a hard primer. A two shot derringer with one hard primer sounds like "click, BANG, BANG". If a DA revolver doesn't have second strike, presumably the DA two shot doesn't either, right? Or does it?
If you have a gun designed to be carried hammer down with a SA trigger (Radom, Mab, Firestar), does this pistol even have FIRST strike capability?
Second question, about revolvers: A single shot DAO derringer has second strike and it sounds like, "click, BANG" if you get a hard primer. A two shot derringer with one hard primer sounds like "click, BANG, BANG". If a DA revolver doesn't have second strike, presumably the DA two shot doesn't either, right? Or does it?
H
Handy
Guest
So if cocking the hammer and firing is a "first strike", why wouldn't recocking the hammer and firing be a "second strike"?
You'll have to forgive me, I'm not very smart.
You'll have to forgive me, I'm not very smart.
Personally, I think second strike capability is a defect, not a feature. If the gun does not fire, I believe the correct response is tap-rack-bang, not pulling the trigger again. If you don't have second strike, then the trigger does not reset and that's another indication to you that there is a problem that you need to solve right there and now with tap-rack-bang.
H
Handy
Guest
One thing second strike does give you is a second chance and an extra round, but it also gives you a pause to allow a hang fire to cook off. If it is a hang fire, opening the slide immediately may become unpleasant.
Executing the final step before ignition is pulling the trigger. A second strike occurs when the only step taken is pulling the trigger to repeat the mechanical process to foster ignition. Cocking the hammer is a discrete preliminary step that is not a part of the ignition sequence started by pulling the trigger.
If pulling the trigger does not also completely cock the firing mechanism, the gun does not have second (more properly "repeated") strike capability.
H
Handy
Guest
So then "second strike" would then be defined as:
The ability of a firearm to restrike a primer with one (and only one) additional pull of the trigger.
That is why a revolver doesn't cut it as well, too many trigger pulls.
I would also assume that a P7 has no second strike capability either, since this also involves recocking the gun by means other than the trigger?
The ability of a firearm to restrike a primer with one (and only one) additional pull of the trigger.
That is why a revolver doesn't cut it as well, too many trigger pulls.
I would also assume that a P7 has no second strike capability either, since this also involves recocking the gun by means other than the trigger?
On the range, I can wait all the time I want to, regardless of whether or not the gun has second strike capability. In a defensive situation, I'm going to do a tap-rap-bang, regardless of whether or not I think I have a hangfire. In a defensive situation, you don't have the luxury of waiting 30-60 seconds to determine whether or not you have a hangfire, and you're certainly not going to spend that 30-60 seconds pulling the trigger repeatedly if you do have second strike.
That said, in 10 years of shooting I have yet to see a hangfire. It's not something I'm particularly worried about. And if the round does go off outside of the gun, the bullet actually won't be propelled that fast. The cartridge will be propelled in the other direction (faster than the bullet, actually). Most likely if that bullet hit you, it would not break the skin.
I think the hangfire issue is completely orthognal to second strike.
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IMO, hangfires are leftovers from black powder days. I suppose that BPCR shooters may have more likelihood of hangfires occurring, but the only time I've ever experienced anything similar is with fireworks.
Also IMO, the correct response to have ingrained in one who uses a weapon for defensive purposes is the Tap, Rack, Bang or equivalent.
George
Also IMO, the correct response to have ingrained in one who uses a weapon for defensive purposes is the Tap, Rack, Bang or equivalent.
George
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