What is Sierra (bullets) thinking? Their prices are ridiculous and I've had enough!!

[MCMXI]

I did not say SHORTAGE, don't start misquoting me.

There is however a marked increase in demand, I can under stand how this subtly may be lost on you. Clearly economics aren't your strong suit

Silly me ... I thought availability and demand had an inverse relationship. Since the availability of Sierra bullets at Midway doesn't appear to be a problem, and assuming that Sierra bullets are in "high demand" as you say, a reasonable person would infer that demand hasn't kept up with supply. As for the estimated "in stock" date at Midway ... I bet you dollars to donuts that ALL of the products in the list arrive BEFORE the estimated date. I've spent A LOT of money at MidwayUSA over the years and track a number of items in a "wish list". So far, bullets have come in ahead of schedule.

By the way, don't you mean "economics ISN'T your strong suit" and "understand" rather than under stand ... ESL maybe?!

 

[R.W.Dale]

edited to get thread back on topic

 

[R.W.Dale]

EDIT: to get back to supply and demand

 

[MCMXI]

but of course there's no increase in demand simply because 1858 says so......yeah right

This thread wasn't personal at all until you made the statement above. You could have just respectfully disagreed with my viewpoint but you didn't do that did you? You then decided to post childish images ... for what purpose?

Admin, please put an end to this thread ... lock it, burn it, do what you want but this is going nowhere.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Admin, please put an end to this thread ... lock it, burn it, do what you want but this is going nowhere.

Look I'll do my part to put this thread back on topic even though it's still not likely to turn out as you planned

Since the availability of Sierra bullets at Midway doesn't appear to be a problem, and assuming that Sierra bullets are in "high demand" as you say, a reasonable person would infer that demand hasn't kept up with supply.

I didn't single out sierra, My statements reflect the increase in demand across the board in the realm of reloading

supply and demand isn't predicated on pricing your product so that you completely sell out beyond your ability to manufacturer, don't you think there may be a good reason Sierra products are some of the most in stock items to be had. I would say that their pricing is more in line with the current market than other manufacturers

 

[rockhound758]

I shoot Hornaday primarily so I don't have any knowledge about Sierra's superiority...I shoot handgun and I've never had a problem finding the center ring. But I agree with Ants and Oneounce...seems like the cost of everything has gone up due to the "perfect storm" of factors (economic, political, war, Obama-induced buying, etc.) and if you believe in supply and demand (I do) it would lead you to believe prices will come down, albeit slowly. Did anybody out there think (when gas was $4.00 a gallon) that we'd be at $1.85 6 months later?

 

[oneounceload]

Sounds like the OP made an opinion that was/is not universally shared and found to be not accurate and is now mad because everyone isn't agreeing with his tirade

here's a hint - if Sierra pi$$es you off that much, but someone else's bullets

 

[VINTAGE-SLOTCARS]

Whant is Sierra?

I'm sure glad I bought a lot ( 10 boxs) of my favorite Sierra 168 gr. hpbt off ebay b/4 they changed their rules. I love Sierra bullets in my rifle and shoot Hornady in my pistols. Prices will always go up . I have an old box of 50 pcs of Remington bullets in (marked) 30-06 that's price at $3.88. I've been reloading for thirty some years and enjoy it as much as shooting,, I guess the cost increase of components is still cheaper than seeing a pschy.

 

[plinky]

I've been gritting my teeth and buying SMKs because I know they will shoot well. At the same time, I notice that Hornady A max are substantially cheaper and plan to try them. If they shoot well, it will surely cause a change in buying habits. If there are problems, I'll know why they are cheaper. So far I haven't seen A max bullets locally while SMKs are readily available.

Midway seems to have gotten a lot of stuff in stock recently. Could be the panic buyers have worn themselves out. Or they're taking a Christmas break. Or the industry has shifted gears to meet the demand. Without having access to some inside info, it's hard to say what it means.

But as of yesterday, they had several good choices in .308 Win. brass. (Order placed!) This comes after quite a spell of being totally "Out of stock". Things are looking up(?)

 

[GooseGestapo]

The reason for the price spike is/was commodity prices of components for the bullets.
Lead was over $2/lb, copper was approaching $4/lb.

I'm sure the accountants and engineers were biting their nails, and holding onto their checkbooks waiting for the commodity prices to run their course.

The have/did. Lead is back under $1/lb and copper is at or under $1.50/lb.

With oil/electricty down ~70%, the mills are back in production, but it will still take a while for pricing to respond, what with the original stocks of bullets on the shelf taking a while to deplete.

I'm somewhat "immune" to the current situation as I bought a lot of components back last year when prices were much lower. I also cast my own, so, only the lack of Federal Small pistol primers "pinched" me last spring.

Time will tell about primers, bullets and ammo in general with the new admin. starting their "RULE" as Obama put it.

Look out! Change is coming! It's usually for the worse too!

 

[Peter M. Eick]

The short answer is simple. If you don't like Sierra, don't buy them and then they will be forced to lower the prices so folks like me will pay less for mine.

I shoot Sierra's. Pretty black and white. They work for me and are accurate. That is about all I worry about in a rifle.

I would like to point out a fact you may not have considered. Each round you fire out of your barrel, you burn a bit out of it. Thus after a certain number of rounds, you will need to rebarrel it. Thus you have a cost per round of consumables and a cost per round of barrel replacement costs. I recently priced out a barrel replacement it was not cheap. The per round costs for the consumables is nearly the per round cost for the replacement barrel.

With that perspective in mind, I was even more firmly convinced to buy the best bullets I could get that work well in my rifles. The costs of shooting cheap bullets is far higher in the long run to me.

 

[rundm]

I can tell you this hornady amax bullets don't take a back seat to anyone's bullets accuray wise, sierra's included. They cost a bit less also. They shoot perfectly fine in the guns I use. I still have a couple of boxes of the plastic tip blitz kings from a couple of yrs ago when the 500 pack was reasonable, but I choose not to shoot those because the vmaxs are more accurate and cheaper in my stuff.

 

[bearwolf]

I started out with Speer bullets back in 1988 because the were always great on price, accuracy, and performance. However, in the last 2-3 years I keep going more and more to sierra and hornady solely due to a better to much better price. Most all of my good cheap Speer bullets have gone up 10$ per 100 now. I dont buy speer anymore as i found the bullets I got from sierra or hornady cheaper. YMMV..

 

[45ACPUSER]

Get over it! Geez it is what it is! Things cost money! The people that make them like to have pay check, too! :banghead::banghead:

 

[Moccw]

I was a bulletpress operator at Sierra for a while, They keep their bullets in very tight specs, compared to alot of others, especially weight wise.. They are very consistant with their wights..

 

[MCMXI]

I can tell you this hornady amax bullets don't take a back seat to anyone's bullets accuray wise, sierra's included. They cost a bit less also. They shoot perfectly fine in the guns I use.

rundm, thanks for the "review". I just ordered 1700 Hornady bullets for a total cost of $324 ...

75 grain .223 (1200)
208 grain .308 (500)

The equivalent order of Sierra MatchKing bullets would cost $476 from the same supplier. That's a difference of $152 or 32% less cost!! Based on the numerous reviews that I've read, these Hornady bullets will have no problem keeping up with the Sierra ones that I currently shoot ... in fact, the Hornady 208 grain bullet has a higher BC than the Sierra 210 grain bullet ... 0.648 compared to 0.601 .... it just keeps getting better.

Thus you have a cost per round of consumables and a cost per round of barrel replacement costs. I recently priced out a barrel replacement it was not cheap. The per round costs for the consumables is nearly the per round cost for the replacement barrel.

Can you elaborate on that? Do you mean that if a barrel is rated at 8,000 rounds, the cost of 8,000 rounds is about the same as the cost of a new barrel?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Guys, lets not take our anger at bullet prices out on each other. We are all frustrated but lets not turn on one and other.

I always liked shooting Sierra 168gr HPBT MatchKing bullets but haven't bought them the last 3 times, I've bought Hornady instead. Locally those Sierra bullets cost me between $29.95 and $32.95/100 and the Hornady are between $20.95 and $22.75. Since the Hornady seem to be just as good, like the OP I'll be buying them for now.

I also shoot a lot of 158gr JSP .357" bullets in my Marlin 1894C Carbine. I was buying Speer and Sierra bullets for a long time but the prices are just too high now. I was at Cabela's 6 months back and noticed a bulk box of 250 Nosler 158gr JSP bullets were marked $30.95. I bought them and shot them and they were more accurate than the Speer bullets. I thought that price was probably a sale but I've been back twice since then and the price was the same. IMO $31 for 250 quality bullets isn't bad these days.

I understand the the point of the OP, why buy overpriced bullets when you can get the same quality or better for less?

BTW, those Nosler bullets are extremely accurate, just as accurate as the older Sierra 150gr JSP .357" bullets I used to shoot which I considered the best bullets on the market. (before I shot those Nosler bullets)

 

[LTR shooter]

You can believe the bullet prices will not go down depite what current market conditions are for raw materials.

Regardless of reasons , the price of components in the last few years has far exceeded my ability to buy them , in other words my pay has not increased to the level where I have the disposable income to buy MatchKing bullets , or Berger or any quality bullet.

I was going to buy a .308 until seeing the prices last year fot the 168 SMK. I said forget it! I now just reload .223 since it is about the "cheapest" one can load match rifle ammo for. Even then , it is rare for me to shoot more than 25 rounds of centerfire rifle at a range session.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Lets do the math on my Supermatch (which is what needs the new barrel).

The accuracy is starting, just starting to go out. Thus I will rebarrel it either in 2009 or 2010. The cost of a new Douglas or Krieger barrel installed is going to be right at $800 with the new bedding. Now I have fired 3081 rounds and by the time I rebarrel it I will have fired 4000 rounds.

Lets ignore consumables a bit. $800 (for the barrel)/4000 (rounds fired) = 20 cents/round fired. Thus every time I pulled the trigger I burned out 20 cents worth of my barrel costs. Add in $100 to ship it both ways and we get our new costs of $900/4000= 22.5 cents per round fired.

Lets ignore the barrel costs. I shoot Seirra 168 BTHP's out of the gun. Current prices are $136.99 for 500 of them. $136.99/500 = 27 cents per round fired.

So at the end of the day my costs per round fired are about the same. Back during the summer when I ran this calculation out I was paying about $100 per 500 bullets and the costs were a lot closer.

Thus to me, shooting cheap bullets that are not as accurate as Sierra's is false economy.

I hope this makes sense.

 

[Horsemany]

Sounds like the OP made an opinion that was/is not universally shared and found to be not accurate and is now mad because everyone isn't agreeing with his tirade

here's a hint - if Sierra pi$$es you off that much, but someone else's bullets

I think that's what he said he was going to do in the original post. It's a little pathetic everyone jumping all over someone with a personal gripe about the cost of reloading supplies. Yeah that'a a ridiculous concept huh? 1858 it doesn't pay sometimes.

 

[Jefferson Herb]

Ya know,I like Sierra gk 250's in my 338rum,and their mk's work well.I also think that if you want them to come apart and accurate,the ballistic tip has no peer.I like Hornadys xtp pistol bullets,and I cast most of the rest,with the exception of premium hunting bullets,and I know I have to ante up for them.I want to gripe about powder!! Merry xmas,may we all recieve the things we need.

 

[35 Whelen]

Mmmm.....threads like this make me feel all warm and fuzzy. Why? Because I cast bullets.

I shoot High Power matches from time to time and watch these guys shoulder $3000 rifles that use a 3¢ primer and 9¢ worth of powder to send a 17¢ match bullet 100 yds. to poke a hole in a piece of paper. That's about $29 worth of handloads per match. The price is much, much higher if you shoot .30 calibers.

I just finished reading an excellent article by C.E. Harris on cast bullets in military rifles. One of his suggested loads for .30 caliber rifles for 100 yd. targets runs a 150 gr. bullet about 1200 fps, roughly the same speed as a .22 LR....and not too much louder! So yesterday, I loaded some rounds for my Swiss K31 match rifle. I used a 3¢ primer, but only about 2.5¢ worth of powder (7.0 grs. of Bullseye) and a....ahem....free bullet(wheelweights). The bullet is a 150 gr. plain base bullet from an NEI mould (super quality) that was given to me. It was windy and I was short on time, so I fired a preliminary 5 shot group at 50 yds. which spanned exactly .6"....with iron sights mind you. If this load continues to shoot like this, it should translate into no more than 1.5" at 100 yds. Will I win Camp Perry with this load? No. But this load shoots about as well as jacketed bullets and most important, this 5.5¢ per round handload will poke a hole in a piece of paper just as well as the 29¢ per round load!

You guys might want to at least try a less expensive non-target bullet. Last year, when I first "rigged" my K-31 for matches, I started preparing to buy and test "match" bullets. I bought 100 Nosler 155 gr. HP's because they were a little less expensive than Sierra's, and they shot quite well. But while at my loading bench, I remembered a box of Hornady 150 gr. FMJBT's I'd bought for my Garand. So, I loaded a few and tested them:

Needless to say, if I do ever buy jacketed bullets for match shooting, it will be these instead of the Sierra which are $12.50 higher per 100!

For handguns, I have ZERO use for jacketed bullets. Even if I didn't cast my own bullets I would (and did) buy commercial cast lead bullets or a fraction of the cost of jacketed. And, they too will poke a hole in a piece of paper quite well.
35W

 

[MCMXI]

I think that's what he said he was going to do in the original post.

Thanks ... you noticed!

Thus to me, shooting cheap bullets that are not as accurate as Sierra's is false economy.

I'm hoping to have a similar experience to these guys with the Hornday 208 grain A-MAX ... and with the savings I can shoot 1500 Hornaday bullets for the same cost as 1000 Sierra bullets ... the extra 500 practice rounds should help too.


Chris S of Newville, Pa
Date Posted: 11/21/2008
I have shot a 6-1/4" 5 shot group at 820 yards out of my factory chambered Savage varmint rifle in 300 Winchester Magnum which is well under min. of angle. I also shot an 8-point whitetail about 120lbs at 560 yards and the bullet performed great deer didn't take one step.

Cameron B of Cedar City, Ut
Date Posted: 9/12/2008
This is the best flying bullet I have found for my AR chambered in .300 SAUM. At 1000 yards these bullets are impacting a full mil above the Berger 210s with the same loading. Very consistent and they seem to be better at handling the throat jump, common in autos because we have to seat for the magazine.

Zech S of Granbury, Tx
Date Posted: 7/9/2008
Great bullet for an all-in-one target and hunting round. Less than .5 moa during load development with a factory Remington 700 in .300 Win Mag. This has become my one and only round for this gun.

Thad Francisco of Lock Haven, PA
Date Posted: 4/17/2007
Great bullet!!! Three shots from 100 yards that can be covered with a dime. Can't wait to try this bullet at longer distances.

Chad H of Dallas, TX
Date Posted: 3/5/2007
Awesome bullet!! During load development, 3 out of the 5 loads shot under 1/2 inch, and one was a .292 inch 4 shot group. Out of my 27 1/8 inch barrel, I averaged 2947 fps w/ R22 before I saw pressure signs on the next load up. The BC (.648) of this bullet allows it to cut the wind better than anything out there in this weight. I have used Hornady hunting bullets for years, and now they have a great competition bullet I will use. I highly recommend this bullet.

 

[Horsemany]

I shoot Amax's in 300 yd benchrest as do many other shooters at my club. I've compared Amax's in 308 and 7mm and here's what I noticed right away. Amax's vary less in weight and bullet length. They also shoot just as tight of groups with less fliers out of the 3 rifles I've worked up loads for.

We may be a little biased here since I live just a little over an hour away from Grand Island where Hornady is based. You can go there and pick up boxes of rejects for $6/100 of most bullets. The rejects are from the start up of runs of bullets while they're still calibrating the machines. They work great for high volume pdog shooting and I've never really noticed anything wrong with them. The aren't visually flawed but I'd guess they vary a little more than acceptable in wieght or length.

 

[Schleprok62]

I've been using Nosler and Hornady from the start. I load for .223 Rem, 7mm-08 Rem, .280 Rem, 30-06 Spgfd, 30-30Win and .45ACP... Nosler Partitions and Ballistic tips and Hornady V-Max... great bullets... reasonable prices... locally.