Edward429451
member
Decockers have always been a little unnerving for me, I always expect em to go off...and yet, I'm perfectly comfortable with cocked & locked. Go figure. That is weird. Guess its just what you're used to.
What is the absolutely safest way to DE-COCK a 1911?
- Thread starter MidnightHour
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Decockers have always been a little unnerving for me, I always expect em to go off...and yet, I'm perfectly comfortable with cocked & locked. Go figure. That is weird. Guess its just what you're used to.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Cocked and Locked
Cocked and Locked with a 1911 or Browning Hi-Power is not going to allow the pistol to fire unless the trigger is pulled...assuming that there is nothing wrong within the trigger group itself. i.e. An overtweaked sear spring that doesn't keep sufficient tension on the sear or a modified half-cock notch. The 1911 especially, is filled with redundancies that allow it to be carried in this mode.
The grip safety blocks the trigger. The thumb safety blocks the sear primarily, and secondarily impedes the hammer fall in the event of a cracked sear or broken hammer hooks...assuming that it's correctly fitted.
The half-cock backs it all up in case everything breaks at once, and will catch the sear even with a full eighth-inch of the tip missing. I haven't tested the new hammers with the quarter-cock shelf and broken sear yet.
but the full, captive half-cock will arrest the hammer and prevent it from reaching the firing pin.
Pistols with the passive firing pin blocking mechanisms...such as the Colt
Series 80s and Series 2 Kimbers do NOT make the guns more "safe" to carry cocked and locked as some mistakenly believe. These systems only
make the gun more drop-safe.
Decockers rarely fail, but rarely doesn't mean never. If the hammer falls with full force, there is always a chance that something could go wrong.
Trusting any mechanical safety completely isn't wise, as any mechanical device is subject to failure. The real "safety" is between your ears.
Ya'll be careful! That pistol ain't a toy and it sure ain't your friend. As I have said before..."It's as dangerous as a Rattlesnake. Regard it as hostile at all times."
Cocked and Locked with a 1911 or Browning Hi-Power is not going to allow the pistol to fire unless the trigger is pulled...assuming that there is nothing wrong within the trigger group itself. i.e. An overtweaked sear spring that doesn't keep sufficient tension on the sear or a modified half-cock notch. The 1911 especially, is filled with redundancies that allow it to be carried in this mode.
The grip safety blocks the trigger. The thumb safety blocks the sear primarily, and secondarily impedes the hammer fall in the event of a cracked sear or broken hammer hooks...assuming that it's correctly fitted.
The half-cock backs it all up in case everything breaks at once, and will catch the sear even with a full eighth-inch of the tip missing. I haven't tested the new hammers with the quarter-cock shelf and broken sear yet.
but the full, captive half-cock will arrest the hammer and prevent it from reaching the firing pin.
Pistols with the passive firing pin blocking mechanisms...such as the Colt
Series 80s and Series 2 Kimbers do NOT make the guns more "safe" to carry cocked and locked as some mistakenly believe. These systems only
make the gun more drop-safe.
Decockers rarely fail, but rarely doesn't mean never. If the hammer falls with full force, there is always a chance that something could go wrong.
Trusting any mechanical safety completely isn't wise, as any mechanical device is subject to failure. The real "safety" is between your ears.
Ya'll be careful! That pistol ain't a toy and it sure ain't your friend. As I have said before..."It's as dangerous as a Rattlesnake. Regard it as hostile at all times."
Andrew Wyatt
Member
You have to carry in an open topped holster in dusty conditions and you don't want to go full auto because you got some junk in the FP channel.
You want to put the gun in a pouch or bag for some reason.
You have to pocket carry.
PinnedAndRecessed
member
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- Aug 10, 2004
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- 1,541
In the movies they grab the hammer with the index finger and thumb of the off hand and lower it slowly. And we all know how accurate and reliable Hollywood is when it comes to guns.
Seriously, if you want to safely lower a 1911 onto a live round...........
get a Sig!
Seriously, if you want to safely lower a 1911 onto a live round...........
get a Sig!
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Why?
Quote:
You have to carry in an open topped holster in dusty conditions and you don't want to go full auto because you got some junk in the FP channel.
......................... 
__________________________
Quote:
You want to put the gun in a pouch or bag for some reason.
......................
_______________________
Quote:
You have to pocket carry.
A 1911 in a pocket???
Quote:
You have to carry in an open topped holster in dusty conditions and you don't want to go full auto because you got some junk in the FP channel.
......................... __________________________
Quote:
You want to put the gun in a pouch or bag for some reason.
...................... _______________________
Quote:
You have to pocket carry.
A 1911 in a pocket???cslinger
Member
A 1911 in a pocket???..........................or are ya just happy to see me. Sorry I couldn't resist.
Chris
Carlos Cabeza
Member
My current GF is all too familiar with that "decocker thingie" I took her to the range with her Ruger P series somethin' er 'nother and she did really well until time to go. I said "after this mag we need to leave". Instead of emptying the magazine she wheels around off the line and with the muzzle pointed at what looked to be my head she hit the "decocker thingie" 
I went down to the ground when she started around but that noise is one that makes you cringe. I rippped into her a$$ "DON'T EVER FORKING DO THAT AGAIN !" I think she might not call back. Really, she apologized and we are trying to educate her about the "safety between the ears". She might make it, but I'm just guessin'
I took her to the range with her Ruger P series somethin' er 'nother and she did really well until time to go. I said "after this mag we need to leave". Instead of emptying the magazine she wheels around off the line and with the muzzle pointed at what looked to be my head she hit the "decocker thingie" I went down to the ground when she started around but that noise is one that makes you cringe. I rippped into her a$$ "DON'T EVER FORKING DO THAT AGAIN !" I think she might not call back. Really, she apologized and we are trying to educate her about the "safety between the ears". She might make it, but I'm just guessin' Dave Sample
member
There is a very easy way. Drop the magazine and jack the slide back and get the loaded round out of the chamber. Examine the chamber to make sure it's empty, point it at Tuner's 55 Gallon drum full of sand, and then drop the hammer with the trigger. If you don't have that drum, point it at something you won't hurt by shooting it. Guns are safe. People are dangerous.
It's funny this topic has come up. I took a concealed carry class a few weeks ago and we were shooting at targets and the instructor wanted everyone to decock their pistols. I was using my 1911 and I didn't do anything. The RO behind me told me to decock and I told him this thing does not decock. He said yes it does and thought that the safety was a decocker. I told him that the pistol was a 1911 and he said OH. Well, the instructor insisted that I decock so I carefully brought the hammer down to the half cock notch. Now I was using a Springfield that I had replaced the hammer with a Chip McCormick. I told the instructor that the half cock notch of a Springfield will not capture the hammer, it will drop when the trigger is pulled. I personally don't know if it is with enough strength to fire the gun, but I'm not going to find out.
There was another person there with a 1911 but he was at the other end of the firing line, so I didn't see what he did. Made me very nervous. The instructors response 1. You wouldn't had a cocked gun to a police officer if you had to and 2. He didn't want anyone leaving his class not knowing how to decock their guns.
Other than this incident, I thought the class was very well done. I'm actually going to an advanced pistol class from the same group this weekend. Although, I think the instructor will be different.
There was another person there with a 1911 but he was at the other end of the firing line, so I didn't see what he did. Made me very nervous. The instructors response 1. You wouldn't had a cocked gun to a police officer if you had to and 2. He didn't want anyone leaving his class not knowing how to decock their guns.
Other than this incident, I thought the class was very well done. I'm actually going to an advanced pistol class from the same group this weekend. Although, I think the instructor will be different.
carpettbaggerr
Member
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2003
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- 1,676
I wouldn't hand a cocked gun to a cop [or anyone else for that matter], I'd clear the weapon first. He did teach you to clear a firearm before you hand it to anyone, didn't he?
Mute
Member
If conditions are really so dirty that you'd be tempted to carry with an uncocked hammer, you might as well carry condition 3. I don't see any real advantage to using condition 2 over condition 3.
One handed cocking? Hope you have big hands and don't need that gun really quick.
One handed cocking? Hope you have big hands and don't need that gun really quick.
FPrice
Member
Andrew Wyatt...
"You have to carry in an open topped holster in dusty conditions and you don't want to go full auto because you got some junk in the FP channel."
I am not a gunsmith, nor do I play one on TV or the internet, but this sounds wrong to me.
IIRC a semi-auto going full-auto is more related usually to a sear problem, usaully a worn or broken sear, rather than dirt in the firing pin channel. The dirt would tend to slow down the firing pin, and interrupt the firing sequence rather than cause a full-auto busrt, wouldn't it?
"You have to carry in an open topped holster in dusty conditions and you don't want to go full auto because you got some junk in the FP channel."
I am not a gunsmith, nor do I play one on TV or the internet, but this sounds wrong to me.
IIRC a semi-auto going full-auto is more related usually to a sear problem, usaully a worn or broken sear, rather than dirt in the firing pin channel. The dirt would tend to slow down the firing pin, and interrupt the firing sequence rather than cause a full-auto busrt, wouldn't it?
Andrew Wyatt
Member
I've seen 1911s go full auto because they've gotten their firing pins wedged forward because of gunk in the firing pin channel, and several squared away fellows in my shooting group carry in condition two under those conditions.
another fellow in my shooting group carries a lightweight commander, and works at a job where he wears coveralls. when he goes to lunch, instead of chainging clothes, he puts his commander in condition two in the very large back pocket and goes about his business. WOuld you rather he left it at the shop? His coworkers don't know he carries, and going from condition 1 to condition 3 makes an awful lot of noise.
My field gear is a set of tactical tailor chest webbing. it has no holster on it, and when i 'm carrying a pack, i cannot wear my pistol belt because the pack belt interferes.
I put the 1911 in a SAW pouch, because I might need it.
when i decock a 1911, I:
1. place thumb of right hand (i'm left handed) pad down over the firing pin.
2. hold hammer firmly on both sides with my index finger and thumb of other hand.
3. making sure to point pistol in a safe direction, i pull the trigger, slowly letting the hammer fall, moving the thumb slowly out of the way once the hammer hits it.
Before you flip out, I'm not saying that condition 2 is the end all or be all of 1911 carry. I'm saying that it has a purpose in limited circumstances.
another fellow in my shooting group carries a lightweight commander, and works at a job where he wears coveralls. when he goes to lunch, instead of chainging clothes, he puts his commander in condition two in the very large back pocket and goes about his business. WOuld you rather he left it at the shop? His coworkers don't know he carries, and going from condition 1 to condition 3 makes an awful lot of noise.
My field gear is a set of tactical tailor chest webbing. it has no holster on it, and when i 'm carrying a pack, i cannot wear my pistol belt because the pack belt interferes.
I put the 1911 in a SAW pouch, because I might need it.
when i decock a 1911, I:
1. place thumb of right hand (i'm left handed) pad down over the firing pin.
2. hold hammer firmly on both sides with my index finger and thumb of other hand.
3. making sure to point pistol in a safe direction, i pull the trigger, slowly letting the hammer fall, moving the thumb slowly out of the way once the hammer hits it.
Before you flip out, I'm not saying that condition 2 is the end all or be all of 1911 carry. I'm saying that it has a purpose in limited circumstances.
mmike87
Member
>>> buy a SIG and you don't have to worry about a safe way of decocking it you can just hit the decock lever with no problems or fears
The poster was very specific in stating that he didn't want alternate gun suggestions.
Back to the posters question, decocking on a live round is frowned upon, to say the least. But I think you already know that.
If you insist on doing this, PLEASE be sure the gun is pointed in a safe direction above all else, because what you are doing is an inherently unsafe practice.
The poster was very specific in stating that he didn't want alternate gun suggestions.
Back to the posters question, decocking on a live round is frowned upon, to say the least. But I think you already know that.
If you insist on doing this, PLEASE be sure the gun is pointed in a safe direction above all else, because what you are doing is an inherently unsafe practice.
Flynt
Member
Have I been missing something?
One of the guys responding here noted that he always cocked his 1911 with the slide. I've only owned 1911's for a couple of years, and I guess you'd say I'm "self taught" when it comes to operating them. I load them by cocking the hammer with my thumb and then racking the slide. It sure is a lot easier that way. Also, I have one gun, a Colt Series 80, that has a red dot scope mounted with a grip mount. It's really hard for me to get a purchase on the slide with that configuration.
Am I doing something that's unsafe or otherwise undesirable? (I don't try decock; I'm just talking about chambering a round by cocking the hammer with my thumb.) Thanks.
One of the guys responding here noted that he always cocked his 1911 with the slide. I've only owned 1911's for a couple of years, and I guess you'd say I'm "self taught" when it comes to operating them. I load them by cocking the hammer with my thumb and then racking the slide. It sure is a lot easier that way. Also, I have one gun, a Colt Series 80, that has a red dot scope mounted with a grip mount. It's really hard for me to get a purchase on the slide with that configuration.
Am I doing something that's unsafe or otherwise undesirable? (I don't try decock; I'm just talking about chambering a round by cocking the hammer with my thumb.) Thanks.
If you have a 1911 with a Commander type hammer, that's the one with a hole through the center then insert a piece of 2 inch long wooden dowel or hard,solid plasic rod through the hole.
Take the pistol in a standard shooting hold.
With the muzzle pointed into a SAFE location,
disengage the thumb safety.
Grasp the plastic or wooden rod between the index and middle fingers of your non-shooting hand and draw the hammer slightly back.
Depress the trigger with your shooting hand index finger while controlling the hammer with your other hands finger grasp.
Ease the hammer down.
This is the safest way to decock a 1911 over a live round.
If you have a 1911 with the old spur type hammer, the safest way to decock it over a live round is to give the pistol to somebody else,
Retreat to a known safe location.
Let them do it!
I disclaim all liability in the event of accidents.
Take the pistol in a standard shooting hold.
With the muzzle pointed into a SAFE location,
disengage the thumb safety.
Grasp the plastic or wooden rod between the index and middle fingers of your non-shooting hand and draw the hammer slightly back.
Depress the trigger with your shooting hand index finger while controlling the hammer with your other hands finger grasp.
Ease the hammer down.
This is the safest way to decock a 1911 over a live round.
If you have a 1911 with the old spur type hammer, the safest way to decock it over a live round is to give the pistol to somebody else,
Retreat to a known safe location.
Let them do it!
I disclaim all liability in the event of accidents.
SAWBONES
Member
And why would one reasonably wish or need to "de-cock" a loaded 1911?
nitesite
Member
Quote:
"If you have a 1911 with the old spur type hammer, the safest way to decock it over a live round is to give the pistol to somebody else,
Retreat to a known safe location.
Let them do it!"
HYSTERICAL .... I almost ralphed my supper on that one!!!!!
"If you have a 1911 with the old spur type hammer, the safest way to decock it over a live round is to give the pistol to somebody else,
Retreat to a known safe location.
Let them do it!"
HYSTERICAL .... I almost ralphed my supper on that one!!!!!
Dave Sample
member
I agree with Sawbones. I can see no reason for doing this to a 1911. It is either ready to rock and roll or it's empty with no magazine in it and an empty chamber with the hammer down.
Edward429451
member
Uh, I'll give you the laymans version, and hopefully someone like Tuner or Fuff will chime in with the real specifics and reasons.
When the slide cycles to cock the hammer, the disconnect, and sear disengage from the hammer hooks (Eh?) and it cocks the way it was meant to operate.
When you thumb the hammer back, it drags the hammer across the sear, thus putting more stresses and potential damage to the delicate parts and is harder on your parts than it needs to be. It may or may not be a huge deal to stock parts but on a gun with a trigger job it wreaks havoc.
More or less. I aint no gunsmith, but my understanding is that it is bad so I don't do it anymore. I've probably mucked up the details of the mechanics, and hopefully someone will set me & you right on the subject with professional grade information rather than my layman stab at it! Long story short, its hard on the gun.
Edited to add" Or Dave! Sorry Dave.
With respect to the original question Mr. Sample's answer works for me,
That said, my degree of faith in my Sigs' decockers is very high, knowing how the thing works. However, the possibility of a problem exists, and any decocking is done with the weapon pointed in a safe direction; ie, down range, a clearing barrel, or at my vest hung over a chair. The same is true whenever manipulating the weapon for loading and unloading. Doesn't cost me anything to do it that way, other than a few extra seconds to be sure I'm doing it safe.
I can explain to my boss why I ruined a panel on my body armor, or we need to replace the clearing barrel, and I won't be in any trouble. However, forget trouble, I couldn't live with myself if a ND resulted in someone being injured or killed, whether it's decocking my Sig or loading up my 1911.
The procedures you outlined from your military days is great, but in answer to your question about how many rounds that barrel took each month I'm guessing it was some number greater than zero. People rush, take shortcuts, etc. and NDs result.
Stay safe folks. There are risks in life, and they can't be completely avoided, but loading/unloading and making your weapon safe to holster/carry is one area where the risks can be greatly minimized.
With regard to faith in decockers:
Tuner I don't have absolute faith in anything other than there is a God, and my Mom loves me unconditionally. Everything else is degrees of faith.
That said, my degree of faith in my Sigs' decockers is very high, knowing how the thing works. However, the possibility of a problem exists, and any decocking is done with the weapon pointed in a safe direction; ie, down range, a clearing barrel, or at my vest hung over a chair. The same is true whenever manipulating the weapon for loading and unloading. Doesn't cost me anything to do it that way, other than a few extra seconds to be sure I'm doing it safe.
I can explain to my boss why I ruined a panel on my body armor, or we need to replace the clearing barrel, and I won't be in any trouble. However, forget trouble, I couldn't live with myself if a ND resulted in someone being injured or killed, whether it's decocking my Sig or loading up my 1911.
The procedures you outlined from your military days is great, but in answer to your question about how many rounds that barrel took each month I'm guessing it was some number greater than zero. People rush, take shortcuts, etc. and NDs result.
Stay safe folks. There are risks in life, and they can't be completely avoided, but loading/unloading and making your weapon safe to holster/carry is one area where the risks can be greatly minimized.
fastbolt
Member
"Absolutely safest", huh?
Okay, I'll bite.
While pointing the weapon in a safe direction, with your finger off the trigger and outside of the trigger guard ...
Remove the magazine ...
Carefully lower/disengage the thumb safety ...
Manually retract the slide and empty the chambered round, visually inspecting the chamber, and then manually cycle the slide a couple more times to make sure no live ammunition remains in the weapon ...
Lower the hammer on an empty chamber ...
Edward429451
member
You're talking about how the series 80 will drop the hammer from the so called half cock notch (which isn't a true half cock as on previous models) to full down when the trigger is pulled? It wont fire. I tried it a bunch of tomes along time ago when I first got mine and me & my dad noticed that it'd do this, and he tried to tell me that it was broke. It isn't a decocker and its not a half cock. I heard Tuner speak on it before, but forget the details of what was said. Maybe he'll come in and refresh our memories on this.
I wouldn't trust it to not fire, but it wont unless the pistol has problems with it.
Dave Sample
member
The Hammers in an '80 series Colt 1911 have a "Safety Shelf" instead of the old tried and true 1/2 cock notch. They are almost touching the firing pin at this postion, but I would not trust anything about this system. I do not distrust de-cocking type guns, I just do not own many. I have an FEG 9X18 that has something like that, but it seems safe to me. After 50+ years with 1911's, I admit I am biased. They are all I will ever want or need!
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