why is there a stigma over 'cocked and locked ' and not 'decocked'???

[piece of meat]

as i read over all the handgun posts on the internet i find lots of posts about the 'unsafety' and 'risks' of hammer back, safety on' (cocked and locked)yet NOTHING about the 'hammer drop decocker' 'safety'....

heres what i dont get. with a hammer drop...you get a gun that has both a vastly different and more difficult pull...and is not 'safe' in the sense that it will still SHOOT if the trigger gets pulled.

on the other hand, a single action with the safety on is IMO FAR SAFER, seeing as how the gun will not fire even if the trigger gets pulled...and at the same time is more ideal as all you have to do is flick the safety and you have the same standard single action pull.

the irony is that Glocks are constantly recommended/advocated as carry guns despite having NO safety whatsoever; if the (short,light)trigger gets depressed, IT FIRES. the only alternative is having no round in the pipe, which imo makes a carry gun vastly more ineffective in real life situations.

i must do not understand the general hostility towards cocked and locked style, and towards guns with a manual safety (such as M&P's, which unlike Glocks have the option of a manual) and yet 90% of people 'recommend' getting the one with No safety whatsoever.

i just do not see how there is any advantage to a 'de-cocker' or a NO safety short DA as opposed to cocked and locked, which seems to me to be the safest and most ideal way of carrying a handgun.

 

[wristtwister]

The short answer is that everybody's an expert. We all carry our guns the way we think they should be carried, and regardless of all the contrarian ideas for every situation, we do what we do.

I sometimes carry "cocked and locked" and sometimes carry with one in the chamber and on DA, depending on the gun I'm wearing. I don't own DA only guns, but have numerous SA/DA guns. It's also a matter of practice.... I shoot certain guns from the draw as double action guns, and others from the single action mode, depending on how they're carried.

Shooting is a matter of practice, practice, and practice... like anything else, you'll respond the way you train. If you like "cocked and locked", train that way. If you like "double action", train THAT way. I have some guns that I practice my draw using both hands and rack the slide on the draw... so there's all kinds of different methods. Just pick one and go with it.

WT

 

[bigfatdave]

Didn't we just do this thread about a dozen times?

Can we PLEASE get a sticky witgh FAQ items like this?
OP, search and read, this dead horse has been beaten enough.

 

[harmon rabb]

Because a cocked hammer looks scary and people are dumb. A 1911 cocked and locked is far safer for carry than a Glock with one in the tube.

 

[rellascout]

Ignorance of the different manual of arms is the issue. It has been covered here many times.

 

[9mmepiphany]

It is all a matter of perception. We are conditioned by movies and television to perceive a cocked gun as a dangerous one...that is why they add the foley cocking sound to Glocks in movies. When seen by non-gun folks, a cocked and locked 1911 is just cocked...and hence dangerous

It is the same as your perception that a DA/SA gun with a decocker results in a gun that has both a vastly different and more difficult pull. The DA trigger press isn't any more difficult, it is just different. It is just as fast and usually more accurate for newer shooters to train with.

Both are just a matter of perception and experience

 

[Japle]

Old story:
A Texas Ranger, carrying a Colt .45 Auto cocked and locked, stopped for a cup of coffee. When he came out of the café, there was an old woman standing on the sidewalk. The Ranger gave her a nod.
The lady stepped up next to the Ranger and whispered, “Ranger, do you know your pistol is cocked”?
“Yes ma’am , I do”, he replied.
“But”, she whispered, “isn’t that dangerous”?
The Ranger smiled down at her. “You ‘damn betcha’!”

 

[gofastman]

Old story:
A Texas Ranger, carrying a Colt .45 Auto cocked and locked, stopped for a cup of coffee. When he came out of the café, there was an old woman standing on the sidewalk. The Ranger gave her a nod.
The lady stepped up next to the Ranger and whispered, “Ranger, do you know your pistol is cocked”?
“Yes ma’am , I do”, he replied.
“But”, she whispered, “isn’t that dangerous”?
The Ranger smiled down at her. “You ‘damn betcha’!”

never happened

 

[gordy]

The first colt 45 acp was made with no safety. And was not meant to be carried cocked and locked.
The army wanted a safety put on and what we see today is the gun they came up with to make the army happy. and they did not carry cocked and locked.
Not in till later did that come in to fashion.

 

[Slamfire]

on the other hand, a single action with the safety on is IMO FAR SAFER, seeing as how the gun will not fire even if the trigger gets pulled...and at the same time is more ideal as all you have to do is flick the safety and you have the same standard single action pull.

That that is why I don’t like M1911’s for concealed carry. Shirts tails, belts, or the fat roll around my waist, something brushes up against that safety and all you have left between you and a divot in your butt is that nice crisp single action trigger.

Holster design is very important in carrying a M1911. A good holster requires a strap between the hammer and slide, and leather covering the trigger guard. If the trigger guard is not covered then someone is going to pull on the trigger during withdrawal, and given that the safety is easy to bump off, a negligent discharge is going to happen.

the irony is that Glocks are constantly recommended/advocated as carry guns despite having NO safety whatsoever; if the (short,light)trigger gets depressed, IT FIRES. the only alternative is having no round in the pipe, which imo makes a carry gun vastly more ineffective in real life situations.

Glocks have their vocal fan boys, just like M1911's.

I don’t like Glocks either. It is too easy to stick your finger in the trigger and pull the trigger. I have buds who were reserve Police, from the people they know, Cops are having ND all the time with Glocks.

The only autopistol I would ever thing of carrying is something with the controls of this P5. A decocker, no external safeties, and a long double action pull to start things off.

 

[1SOW]

Lawyers

 

[kludge]

A safety is a crutch. I generally despise them on a carry piece. Hence no 1911's in my safe, my love for JMB notwithstanding.

They perform a useful function on a hunting firearm, but are a needless nuisance on almost everything else.

 

[kev778]

I have Sig P226 9mm and it has the decock lever and although it doesn't lock the trigger it does place that bar between the firing pin and hammer in case of a drop.

The force to pull the trigger when decocked is substantially more than the SA trigger pull after a round is fired. So if carrying with a holster that covers the trigger then essentially the gun is safe. Far safer than a Glock

 

[wally]

The only safety that really works, is between your ears.

Trying to make things "foolproof" only hastens the evolution of bigger fools.

 

[REAPER4206969]

C&L carry turned me into a newt.

 

[earlthegoat2]

and all you have left between you and a divot in your butt is that nice crisp single action trigger.

That and the grip safety on a 1911 which is what we are talking about....I think. Not so on a Hi Power though. Grip safeties are kind of useless. Nonetheless you are right about the good holster.

A safety is a crutch.

I would think lack of a safety could also be considered one. Just something different is all. Theres revolvers and SA autos and DA autos and DA/SA autos. All different. All effective.

 

[Girodin]

I think you are wrong in suggesting that one is much safer than the other. The same is true for the relative safety of a glock (or similar gun) vis a vis either of the others. I have guns of each type and they are equally safe given proper holsters and proper gun handling. If you eliminate those elements all are unsafe and a ND waiting to happen. That is the long and short of it.

People are using some pretty interesting "evidence". For example, pointing out that a bunch of cops have had NDs. There are lots of cops carrying glocks. More carry glocks than anything else I am sure. Thus when a cop does stupid stuff with a gun the result is often a ND with a glock. If as many cops were carrying 1911s then there would likely be a bunch of NDs by cops with those (same of any model). The issue is one of gun handling one. Holster with your finger on the trigger and you'll shoot your leg with a 1911 too. If you can't remember to move your finger why would you remember to re-engage the safety (or other things that would avoid it)?

I wouldn't hesitate to carry my sig, my 1911, or my glock (or similar), and do not consider any of them inherently unsafe designs.

I don't think that people who are knowledgeable concerning guns do either. As to what some random Joe thinks, I wouldn't loose any sleep over it.

 

[Girodin]

given that the safety is easy to bump off,

For what its worth, I have never had the safety disengage on a 1911 I've been carrying, nor on a Mustang for that matter. I really don't think a functional safety is easy to bump off.

A good holster requires a strap between the hammer and slide,

No not really.

 

[1911Tuner]

and all you have left between you and a divot in your butt is that nice crisp single action trigger

That and the grip safety on a 1911 which is what we are talking about....I think.

Yep...and don't forget the half-cock.

The manual safety was added to the 1911 on request by the US Cavalry so that a mounted trooper could reholster the pistol in order to free up both hands so that he could regain control of a frightened horse. Even in those unenlightened days, the boys understood that a man under stress may forget to remove his finger from the trigger before jamming the piece into a holster. Hence the thumb safety.

To lay it out there...The thumb safety's original intent was for reholstering...not for carrying cocked and locked.

A holstered (1911) pistol in Condition Go-Bang still requires being held in the hand to depress the grip safety in order to fire because until that is done, the trigger is blocked.

A good holster requires a strap between the hammer and slide,

Why?

The 1911 and the High-Power both have a half-cock notch on the hammer that will grab th sear and stop the hammer if it should fall without pulling the trigger. If a strap makes you feel better, by all meanst...get a holster with that feature. But necessary? Nah.


The reason that the High Power doesn't have a grip safety is because the French Army didn't ask for one.
If they had, the High Power that we know and love would be wearing one today.

 

[EddieNFL]

Several decades cocked and locked with strapless holsters and even (GASP) Mexican carry. Still have all my butt (actually a little extra these days). Haven't disengaged the safety, yet.

Because a cocked hammer looks scary and people are dumb.

Yep.

 

[pmeisel]

But if it makes you uncomfortable, get a Beretta or something.

 

[GRIZ22]

on the other hand, a single action with the safety on is IMO FAR SAFER,

I think you answered your own question by capitalizing "IMO FAR SAFER". I lke Fords, you like Chevies. Different types of training and different types of actions for various purposes.

Some of your rant is based on misinformation for example:

heres what i dont get. with a hammer drop...you get a gun that has both a vastly different and more difficult pull...and is not 'safe' in the sense that it will still SHOOT if the trigger gets pulled.


It is safer in the sense it requires 10 pounds or more vs the 3-5 pounds most 1911s require. Safer for the guy carrying it as he doesn't have to worry about getting a safety off if he needs his gun. Difficult? I don't think so. All these big he men can't handle a 10-12 pound trigger? that's about what most DA revolvers run.

the irony is that Glocks are constantly recommended/advocated as carry guns despite having NO safety whatsoever

The mechanics have already been addressed but as before, simplicity of operation.

 

[Doghandler]

KISS

I have a long experience with single action revolvers. Cock pull bang... Cock pull bang. ... Really fast now... get your thumbs in there... come on! both of 'em .

KISS

No 1911 action for me. I prefer to engage the trigger before I say...

... I do...

So there you have my half cocked opinion.

 

[straightshooter9]

I haven't had a pistol since my ARMY days 40 years ago.

I just got my new XDm COMPACT with the "grip" safety AND "trigger" safety...... I think the reason I don't want a GLOCK is it only has the "trigger" safety.........don't know if that makes sense to ya'll, it does to me.
If I don't carry one in the chamber, the ONLY alternative is to "rack" a round in a dangerous situation, which could be too late and possibly fatal for me..........
so this is a "no-brainer", correct?

Sorta sounds like I answered my own question, doesn't it?
But I would still like to hear what ya'll have to say about this particular gun and safeties.
THX!

And since I'm new on the forum, I appreciate discussing this question again, regardless of how many times it's been discussed!

 

[Girodin]

I would still like to hear what ya'll have to say about this particular gun and safeties.

I would simply repeat what I said above about the others. Given a quality holster that covers the trigger guard and holds the gun securely and proper gun handling it is safe. I would not hesitate to carry an XD because of any safety concerns. I think you are spot on about the wisdom of carrying it with a round in the pipe.