what is the appeal of HK P7 series?
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Erich
Member
They're neat, and they're really accurate with that blowback/fixed barrel. They're also mighty slim.
They're just neat.
I can't say that a P7 is worth more to me than my SIG-Sauer P-228, though. (We all know the litany of oddities associated with the P7.) But a lot of folks really dig them - and God bless them! I love living in a place where you can shoot what turns you on.
They're just neat.
I can't say that a P7 is worth more to me than my SIG-Sauer P-228, though. (We all know the litany of oddities associated with the P7.) But a lot of folks really dig them - and God bless them! I love living in a place where you can shoot what turns you on.
CZF
Member
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I like them. but they point very strange for me. I can't hit much with them.
The finest pistol on the planet does me no good if I can't shoot it well.
the P7M13 fits my hand, but feels butt heavy and again..very awkward.
I'll leave the squeeze-cockers to SEALs and other guys who like them.
The finest pistol on the planet does me no good if I can't shoot it well.
the P7M13 fits my hand, but feels butt heavy and again..very awkward.
I'll leave the squeeze-cockers to SEALs and other guys who like them.
The best...
1. Squeeze cocking. IMHO the safest gun for daily carry. The gun goes from perfectly safe to perfectly deadly in a split second. If you drop it you may have a heart attack because it might get scratched but you can rest assured it won't go off. This gun is incredibly fast.
2. Trigger pull. Thanks to the squeeze cocking system the gun is safely equipped with an excellent single action trigger pull. I've had die-hard partisans of every type of gun praise my P7's trigger.
3. Compact. Although it has full-size controls (no pinky hang), the gun is sized like a compact approaching a subcompact. It is much thinner than almost any handgun.(1.1-1.2 inches).
4. Full-size barrel. Despite this gun's compact size it has a full 4-inch barrel.
5. Fixed-barrel. This gun lacks the tilting barrel assembly of most other full-sized guns. This lends the gun exceptional accuracy. In combination with the aforementioned trigger, this barrel makes the P7 ultra-accurate.
6. Low recoil. This is debatable. I have always felt that this has the least recoil of any 9mm. Some disagree, most don't. This is likely result of the guns low bore/axis and gas system (although some say the gas system should have no effect).
7. Tough! This gun is CNC milled from a solid steel forging. The gun is so solid it could be used as a nasty set of brass knuckles in a pinch. Without picking one up it is hard to imagine how solid this little gun feels. When I had mine hardchromed the smith complained endlessly about how hard the P7 was to machine.
8. Excellent sight radius. Although the gun is short, HK maximized the sight radius by pushing the sights as far apart as practically possible.
9. Oddball manual of arms confuses bad guys and know it all buddies. There are many accounts of cops loosing their P7's to bad guys who were, in turn, unable to figure out the squeeze cocker. On the lighter side, a know it all at a local gunshop had just explained to all of his bad experiences with the P7 when I handed it to him only to watch him fumble around unable to cock it! Hilarious.
10. Chamber fluting allows the gun to function even if the extractor is broken. This feature really makes you think when you are trying to determine which gun you want to bet you life on (no offense, but this a much more serious advantage than being able to freeze the gun in a bucket of ice or whatever).
11. Easily childproofed. The P7's striker can be removed without tools (and without any other disassembly of the gun). The striker can be re-inserted into the gun in roughly 1 second. This could be a major consideration to those of us with small children and stupid friends.
12. Ambidextrous. With the exception of the slide catch and take down buttons, every model of the P7 is completely ambidextrous.
13. Ultra-fast magazine release. This has to be experienced to be understood. Rambo types complained about the PSP’s lack of rapid magazine release. HK, Germans that they are, decided to give them what they wanted—a magazine that ejects so fast and powerfully that they could be used as back-up projectiles in an emergency.
14. Ultra fast slide release. Simply squeeze the handle and the slide will be released.
15. 110 degree grip angle gives the gun natural pointability. 110 degree grip angle makes the gun point just like you finger.
16. Low profile slide. The P7’s low profile slide means that there is very little recoiling mass relative to the frame. This, along with the above mentioned 110-degree grip angle makes reacquiring targets a breeze with the P7.
1. Squeeze cocking. IMHO the safest gun for daily carry. The gun goes from perfectly safe to perfectly deadly in a split second. If you drop it you may have a heart attack because it might get scratched but you can rest assured it won't go off. This gun is incredibly fast.
2. Trigger pull. Thanks to the squeeze cocking system the gun is safely equipped with an excellent single action trigger pull. I've had die-hard partisans of every type of gun praise my P7's trigger.
3. Compact. Although it has full-size controls (no pinky hang), the gun is sized like a compact approaching a subcompact. It is much thinner than almost any handgun.(1.1-1.2 inches).
4. Full-size barrel. Despite this gun's compact size it has a full 4-inch barrel.
5. Fixed-barrel. This gun lacks the tilting barrel assembly of most other full-sized guns. This lends the gun exceptional accuracy. In combination with the aforementioned trigger, this barrel makes the P7 ultra-accurate.
6. Low recoil. This is debatable. I have always felt that this has the least recoil of any 9mm. Some disagree, most don't. This is likely result of the guns low bore/axis and gas system (although some say the gas system should have no effect).
7. Tough! This gun is CNC milled from a solid steel forging. The gun is so solid it could be used as a nasty set of brass knuckles in a pinch. Without picking one up it is hard to imagine how solid this little gun feels. When I had mine hardchromed the smith complained endlessly about how hard the P7 was to machine.
8. Excellent sight radius. Although the gun is short, HK maximized the sight radius by pushing the sights as far apart as practically possible.
9. Oddball manual of arms confuses bad guys and know it all buddies. There are many accounts of cops loosing their P7's to bad guys who were, in turn, unable to figure out the squeeze cocker. On the lighter side, a know it all at a local gunshop had just explained to all of his bad experiences with the P7 when I handed it to him only to watch him fumble around unable to cock it! Hilarious.
10. Chamber fluting allows the gun to function even if the extractor is broken. This feature really makes you think when you are trying to determine which gun you want to bet you life on (no offense, but this a much more serious advantage than being able to freeze the gun in a bucket of ice or whatever).
11. Easily childproofed. The P7's striker can be removed without tools (and without any other disassembly of the gun). The striker can be re-inserted into the gun in roughly 1 second. This could be a major consideration to those of us with small children and stupid friends.
12. Ambidextrous. With the exception of the slide catch and take down buttons, every model of the P7 is completely ambidextrous.
13. Ultra-fast magazine release. This has to be experienced to be understood. Rambo types complained about the PSP’s lack of rapid magazine release. HK, Germans that they are, decided to give them what they wanted—a magazine that ejects so fast and powerfully that they could be used as back-up projectiles in an emergency.
14. Ultra fast slide release. Simply squeeze the handle and the slide will be released.
15. 110 degree grip angle gives the gun natural pointability. 110 degree grip angle makes the gun point just like you finger.
16. Low profile slide. The P7’s low profile slide means that there is very little recoiling mass relative to the frame. This, along with the above mentioned 110-degree grip angle makes reacquiring targets a breeze with the P7.
critter
Member
Greg, you covered it very well m'man. I'd like to add one other observation.
Of all the guns I have (or have ever had or shot), if I want to absolutely BURN through a magazine full of rounds and put them ALL CLOSE TOGETHER on target, the P7M8 is THE gun to do it with-----FOR ME. I love mine.
Of all the guns I have (or have ever had or shot), if I want to absolutely BURN through a magazine full of rounds and put them ALL CLOSE TOGETHER on target, the P7M8 is THE gun to do it with-----FOR ME. I love mine.
impressive list
so about this squeezecock, how does it feel once it's squeezed? I keep imagining a pair of plier where even though you've had handle closed, they keep pushing on your palm. Does the squeeze loose its tension after the 1st cock? ie. in single-action using gun's recoil to cock.
so about this squeezecock, how does it feel once it's squeezed? I keep imagining a pair of plier where even though you've had handle closed, they keep pushing on your palm. Does the squeeze loose its tension after the 1st cock? ie. in single-action using gun's recoil to cock.
The squeeze cocking lever requires 15-20 pounds to cock. After it is squeezed it only requires 1-3 pounds to keep it cocked. This is not any more than you would use to hold onto the gun normally. This pressure does not vary. It really is a wonderful system.
jimmyjoebob
Member
10lbs to cock it, 2 lbs to maintain
I would love to own one as they seem really neat. I'm not sure that I think the squeeze cocer is a great improvement over the 1911 style of cocked and locked that I know and love so well, but too many people praise it for me to think it's some kook fad. If they were reasonably priced I'd consider one, but never at what I see them selling for. The guns I own now are way more accurate than me, so I can't see me paying a premium for more accuracy.
That said, I'll gladly take one off anybody's hands for $250. Any takers?
That said, I'll gladly take one off anybody's hands for $250. Any takers?
Sam
Member
Considering that I generally don't care for european handguns, I liked the P7.
It only has 1 issue that i cannot overcome.
9mm.
Sam
It only has 1 issue that i cannot overcome.
9mm.
Sam
The P7 is neat, but my wife and I went through about 5 of them before we decided that they just weren't for us. She had problems with the squeeze cocker. She could depress it with both hands OK, but could only barely depress it with her strong hand only. She could NOT depress it with only her weak hand. That ruled it out as a defensive weapon for her.
Me, I liked the gun, but found that it didn't point well for me. It took me longer to get the gun on target than any other pistol I shoot. I found that I could shoot both my CZ 75 and my Makarov better then I could the P7.
In the course of about a year we tried a new P7M8, a couple different used M8's of different vintages and a used P7 PSP before we gave up on the design.
It's a neat gun, but it just wasn't for us, no matter how much we tried to like it. I can see why people love it if it works for them though. It is slim, compact and accurate.
Me, I liked the gun, but found that it didn't point well for me. It took me longer to get the gun on target than any other pistol I shoot. I found that I could shoot both my CZ 75 and my Makarov better then I could the P7.
In the course of about a year we tried a new P7M8, a couple different used M8's of different vintages and a used P7 PSP before we gave up on the design.
It's a neat gun, but it just wasn't for us, no matter how much we tried to like it. I can see why people love it if it works for them though. It is slim, compact and accurate.
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The P7 is certainly not for everyone. Personally, I can shoot my P7M8 better and faster than anything. The squeeze cocker (aside from just being neat) is a very safe and fast action for CCW. Because the squeeze cocker also acts as a slide release, magazine changes can be ridiculously fast.
Like the Walther P5 that I favor, you have to really want one of these pistols to justify spending the money on one.
The P7 series, even the M8 type with the heat shields, get real hot after three magazines are rapid fired through the gun and the groups tend to open up appreciably when the gun gets hot.
The polygonal rifling precludes shooting lead bullets through the pistol because the lead flakes can clog the gas ports plus lead buildup can cause pressure spikes which can cause a catastrophic failure.
I like the look of the P7 but I think there are much better pistols to spend your money on in this day and age.
The P7 series, even the M8 type with the heat shields, get real hot after three magazines are rapid fired through the gun and the groups tend to open up appreciably when the gun gets hot.
The polygonal rifling precludes shooting lead bullets through the pistol because the lead flakes can clog the gas ports plus lead buildup can cause pressure spikes which can cause a catastrophic failure.
I like the look of the P7 but I think there are much better pistols to spend your money on in this day and age.
El Tejon
Member
The appeal? Man, it's trey cool!
It must be good, it was invented in Germany.
It must be good, it was invented in Germany.
Yawn. The P7 heat issue is the most exaggerated problem since my wife's last headache. It gets hot after 50-100 rounds of spirited shooting. This is if you literally feed mag after mag through the gun without a break. If you are like me, and like to shoot other guns, jabber with your buddies, you will never have a problem. The "groups opening up" thing is also as overblown as my last description of my, um, "member." Unless you are talking about taking an M13 and running 1500 rounds through it in 10 minutes, you won't notice any difference in group size. That is a totally theoretical problem that just isn't going to be a problem in an all-steel handgun at handgun shooting distances.
Catastrophic failure? Please link me to any evidence of such a catastrophic failure. This sounds like internet poo. And I don't mean this as a slam on you personally, I believe you saw it somewhere.
Zak Smith
Member
The main reason I like it is that it's very thin for CCW.
[ link to larger image ]
[ link to larger image ]It isn't internet pooh.
I didn't say a catastophic failure has happened, I said it could.
If you shoot the gun as much as you claim then you know what I said is true.
I owned a P7 and got rid of it because of the reasons I mentioned.
I don't care for the pistol as much as you obviously do.
Don't take it personally that I don't care for the pistol as much as you obviously do because I don't take it personally that you happen to like the gun.
I didn't say a catastophic failure has happened, I said it could.
If you shoot the gun as much as you claim then you know what I said is true.
I owned a P7 and got rid of it because of the reasons I mentioned.
I don't care for the pistol as much as you obviously do.
Don't take it personally that I don't care for the pistol as much as you obviously do because I don't take it personally that you happen to like the gun.
jimmyjoebob
Member
aint no way for it to kaboom because of the clogged gas port, all that would happen it that you might have cycling issues, but this can happen using a nylon brush as well.
Rival
Member
Don't hate me - I did the unholy thing, I compared Makarov and P7M8 on the range!
I like the P7, and I like it a lot. I like the fact that it has low bore axis, it helps with the follow up shots. Another thing I like is the caliber. Squeeze cocking - does not bother me.
What I noticed - P7M8 in my hand is just as quick to shoot and just as accurate as Makarov out to 15 yards. They have somewhat similar dimensions (Makarov is smaller), similar weight (Makarov is lighter), similar magazine capacity, and both are safe to carry with round in the chamber. They are also very reliable (I can only assume that about the P7 - however Makarov is stone reliable and feeds empty cases).
Main differences: P7 has more potent caliber and it does not have this double action pull on the first shot (comparing to Makarov). However there are non-combat related disadvatages to P7 that bother me - it is very costly, and very complex inside.
One thing about the Makarov - safety decocks the hammer and locks the slide. The hammer rests on the sear and will not reach the firing pin whether the safety is off or on, so it is safe to carry the pistol with safety off (use it only as a decock lever). SO, you can carry the Mak with round in the chamber and safety off. You can cock the hammer while pulling the pistol out of holster - if the hammer slips it will not hit the firing pin - it can only hit the firing pin when trigger is completely depressed... So you can forget about first double action shot and threat Makarov as a single action with decocker. Works like a charm.
I like the P7, and I like it a lot. I like the fact that it has low bore axis, it helps with the follow up shots. Another thing I like is the caliber. Squeeze cocking - does not bother me.
What I noticed - P7M8 in my hand is just as quick to shoot and just as accurate as Makarov out to 15 yards. They have somewhat similar dimensions (Makarov is smaller), similar weight (Makarov is lighter), similar magazine capacity, and both are safe to carry with round in the chamber. They are also very reliable (I can only assume that about the P7 - however Makarov is stone reliable and feeds empty cases).
Main differences: P7 has more potent caliber and it does not have this double action pull on the first shot (comparing to Makarov). However there are non-combat related disadvatages to P7 that bother me - it is very costly, and very complex inside.
One thing about the Makarov - safety decocks the hammer and locks the slide. The hammer rests on the sear and will not reach the firing pin whether the safety is off or on, so it is safe to carry the pistol with safety off (use it only as a decock lever). SO, you can carry the Mak with round in the chamber and safety off. You can cock the hammer while pulling the pistol out of holster - if the hammer slips it will not hit the firing pin - it can only hit the firing pin when trigger is completely depressed... So you can forget about first double action shot and threat Makarov as a single action with decocker. Works like a charm.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
I have never heard of anyone shooting lead 9mm ammo. I thought that all 9mm was jacketed because plain old lead wouldn't be able to handle the velocities of your standard 9mm.
I will qualify this by saying that I don't do much reloading and that I could very well be mistaken.
I will qualify this by saying that I don't do much reloading and that I could very well be mistaken.
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