What is the most impressive 308 battle rifle?

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the 223 just did not keep them down at ranges above 100 yards.

What's wrong with that is you don't need to shoot the enemy DRT. You just need to incapacitate them. The 5.56 from a 20" barrel met the need with actual combat ranges out to 300-500m maximum. What it added was double the ammo, which means twice as many bullets flying around toward them. The ugly truth is half of all battlefield casualties were hit by non aimed fire. Increase the number of bullets by 100%, you still get twice as many hits on them.

One should never confuse the criteria of what makes the best combat cartridge for what makes a good deer hunting gun. Hump a .30 caliber main battle rifle in combat for months, and you get what the researchers and historians dug up, a dislike to pulling the trigger or carrying much other gear. Entirely the point why .308 was finally dropped for the intermediate rounds that had been knocking on the door since the .276 Pedersen.

We've trended downward in caliber and pushed the effective range out for 200 years, most don't see the forest for the trees.
I don't think that is quite accurate. Having grown up in the military, and having friends that still serve they all scoff at the incapacitate the enemy type statements....they want the guy DEAD.

Military wants to put the target down at the greatest ditance, I think this is why the 308 is on its way out and the 300 is on its way in.

But again we are not talking about the most accurate, the OP said most IMPRESSIVE...depending on what that means, and what the OP wants out of the rifle, I think he would be hard pressed to find a better choice over the M1A. From a history standpoint I always liked the FAL better, a longer service life, more countries adopted it, it fought in all kinds of different parts of the world....to me that is more impressive then the M14, that had a pretty short service life in the general ground pounders hands.
 
Im looking for the same type of rifle. I want very good acuracy out to maybe 400 meters. Definately want the gun to be moa. Can dpms or Armalite AR10's do this?
 
Why not a SCAR-H?

I like the FAL a lot, but the stock does not allow for a cheek weld when optics are used.

As for FAL vs M14 - I have and like them both. I don't really know which is better. I would assume the FAL is better. I used to like the G3 best, but it seems to have a lot of recoil compared to the FAL. I am not sure why.
 
The G3 has more recoil for a number of reasons. The first is that it is "Retarded Blow-Back" operating design. This operation allows the feeding of any 7.62x51/.308WIN ammo. There is no gas system to tinker with, it eats anything with nothing to adjust. Part of the price for this is the recoil.

The idea that it destroys brass and renders brass not fit for reloading is a myth. the ding on the side of the brass presses out easily with reloading dies, and the stripes left by the flutes in the chamber are only a cosmetic problem.
The real problem for reloading is finding the brass. Ejection of 10 feet to 10 yards is realistic, and they get flung everywhere. It won't pile up the brass in a nice tidy stack like a Garand.

The rifle has it's quirks, it's not for everyone. But if you spend the time to learn how it operates, you may be happily surprised. I just ran mine through a 2 day carbine course. Everyone else had AR's. I did fine, even with the up-front and personal stuff at 5-7 yards, and all the way back to 100 yards.
 
IMO the M1A would be the best .308/7.62x51 rifle out there.

Pardon my ignorance, but after reading this thread I see a lot of folks saying FAL. I was under the impression that FN has not made a FAL in many years (replaced by the SCAR), so you have to get a FAL clone like one made from DSA or Century.

Also with all the AR loving guys on this forum I would figure that they would think the AR-10 is the best .308/7.62x51 rifle out there.
 
No one has mentioned the Knights Armament Corps. SR25?

I'd say it is an impressive rifle, especially with the factory mated suppressor :D

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Or the non-suppressed version ;)

KNAC25846_1.jpg
 
IMHO a Galil AR is the finest battle rifle available, the FAL is very close and probably easier to find (read affordable). If you really want MOA accuracy maybe a SOCOM from Springfield Armory. Interesting thread!
 
I would vote for the SR25 or A10 variant of the 7.62x51 black battle rifle. I have a soft spot in my heart for the Garand and M1's but today believe the black battle rifle to be superior. It lends itself to so much more versatility as well.
 
Having ALSO grown up in the military, and served for 22 Army Reserves, and a veteran, what I've learned is that soldiers don't always want what they get, and often don't understand the application. That's why they go to schools, and constantly rehearse in training exercises.

Just like any other team, you don't get to do what you want, you train to do what you NEED. The .300 Win Mag is certainly replacing the .308 - simply a matter of better long range ballistics. It's certainly NOT replacing the 100,000 M16's and M4's in Afghanistan. It's a extreme precision cartridge for the specific use of a highly skilled two man team. And they can both shoot the M16's they are issued for their personal defense quite well.

Question was asked, the most impressive .308 - and answered, the AR10, which is the pinnacle of the design cycle. It's the most accurate, lightest, least complicated, easiest to maintain and service, endures abuse, doesn't need nearly as much maintenance.

Let me expand on that: It's not steel, so the receivers don't rust and deteriorate half as much, if at all, compared to the exposed machined steel action of the M1. The composite furniture needs nothing more than a wipe down, unlike wood that requires some oil as a protective finish to be regularly reapplied. The composite surface resists abrasion and dings with a much higher hardness, and is less prone to cracking along natural lines of weakness.

Any one who's been required to clean and service a Garand piston knows that it's mandatory on a regular basis, more complicated, and adds difficulty to disassembly. The AR10 shotguns, the carrier pulled out, and then torn down simply with no parts needing complex twisting motions to separate. There is no operating rod to suddenly fail and disconnect from the bolt to fly back at the shooter - a known defect in the Garand design. Nor will the trigger mechanism fail to lock into place, falling out into the mud at an inappropriate moment just as rapid fire is desperately needed.

The romance of the Garand has it's appeal, but only compared to the '03A3 it replaced. Just like the Garand, the AR10 offers quite a few superior upgrades that a combat soldier can appreciate, and exactly why they still are, even downscaled in the M16. That's why it's the most impressive .308, as it was the last of the post WWII impetus in design of new combat rifles.

Mechanical designs mature to their zenith, like roof prism binoculars, or the internal combustion engine, the AR10 made the final decisive modification by putting the gas chamber and piston in the bolt carrier. It's the same as sticking the camshaft directly over the valves, or making the pixel on the TV screen self illuminating without the use of a scanning electron gun.

Shooters are an extremely conservative lot, old wood and steel guns like the Win 94 .30-30 sold extremely well for over 100 years. In that same light, shooters would still be revering dial up land line telephones, massive Curtis Mathes 27" color console TV's, and flathead Fords. It's exactly the same thing - and come to think about it, they were impressive in their day.

But compared to cell phones or a twin turbo V6 F150, no, not so much. That's why the AR10 is hands down the most impressive .308 ever designed - and literally the last of it's kind. The proof? It made the transistion to intermediate cartridges, and owns the market in the free world.
 
Saiga 308.

I just wish the barrel came threaded from the factory; the concussion from a shot is well into ridiculous territory.
 
Yes but flathead fords still do what you need them to do, and after you dump all the sand out of them some of the problems like over heating go away, not a problem with the design just a problem with the tech of the day...same with your cam shaft analogy...replace that cam with computer controlled servos that open for how long you want when you want for however long you want, build from ceramics and elimate all need for a cooling systems....there is always something new and better on the horizon. But impressive is such a wide ranging word. For me I have the ability to shoot at places where punching holes in paper is something I just don't do, and getting everything in that one hole does not intrest me at all. I want to hit things at the distances talked about but I want to hit a milk jug, pop cans, soup cans and the like, just about any rifle talked about here can do that....so that will lead to more, for me (a history nut) would look to things like the fal, m1a and the like.

Sure that fancy engine is sure impressive, but that old flathead is impressive in its own right....and with the right loving care can run right there with the modern stuff....sure it will take more work, but some people love that work....thats why the flathead is still around and going strong.

See where I am trying to drift with this.
 
Any one who's been required to clean and service a Garand piston knows that it's mandatory on a regular basis, more complicated, and adds difficulty to disassembly.

What piston are you talking about? The only piston on a M1 Garand is the one on the end of the op rod, which is easily removed and reinstalled, and since there are no parts associated with the piston, it is not complicated and needs no maintenance.:confused:

Don
 
Really? You think the 1950s AR-10 is the most impressive battle rifle this guy could buy? Where would you even find one of those nowadays, and how much would it cost? Where would you get parts when it breaks? Those would have to be some of the least optic-friendly rifles available, with the fixed carry handle with incorporated charging handle and rear sight. And if you're going to go class 3 this is about the last firearm I would get, considering how limited the replacement parts would be and how useless full auto is on 7.62x51 caliber battle rifles, especially ones that weigh 8 lbs.

And I really don't know how the Stg-44 and M-16/AR-15 enter into this discussion either, since we're talking about .308 caliber battle rifles, and those are neither .308 nor are they battle rifles.

Now getting back to the realm of reality, and only considering rifles that are widely available for a reasonable price... you really can't go wrong with any of the common ones like the M-14 pattern, FAL pattern, G-3 pattern, AR pattern, or Saiga, as long as you buy a quality one and not some low-end piece of junk. If this is your first battle rifle you just need to get whichever one you think you would like best after studying up on them a little, and then as you learn and get experience and trigger time with other rifles, you will probably change your mind a few times and buy and sell a little, as you figure out what you really want. I think most of us have gone through that. So much of this is personal preference, really. Some of it is what people are familiar with. Some of it depends on the specific needs and uses of the owner.

That said, personally I like a good M-14 platform best of all. For me it is the perfect combination of all the things I look for in a battle rifle -- reliability, practical accuracy, sights, trigger, weight, ease of mounting optics, availability of parts, etc. What really makes the M-14 stand out over the FAL to me is the sights. The M-14 quite simply has the best iron sights ever put on a service rifle (they are the same as the M-1 garand, by the way). My M1A weighs 8.4 lbs. with the scope mount... it is hard to find a battle rifle that weighs less. They are actually pretty versatile as far as all the ways to mount optics. The options are pretty much unlimited... a nice standard scope over the receiver, a forward-mount scout scope, a red-dot co-witnessed with the irons... the list goes on. And there is a lot of variety of different stocks you can dress it up in... GI fiberglass, beautiful wood, plastic, all sorts of precision stocks, sniper stocks, tacticool railed stocks, lightweight carbon fiber stocks, folding stocks, even a bullpup stock.

For a "starter" M-14 I wouldn't go right to an M-21 or anything that specialized... I would just get a standard GI-profile barreled one, just get a feel for the platform and get something you can grow into. One built with GI parts would be preferable, though you would be fine with just a new Standard M1A from Springfield Armory Inc.

Good luck in your search, and let us know what you end up going with.
 
Can speak for anyone but me, but when I refer to an AR10 type rifle it could be a DPMS LR308, Armilite 308, Larue T., etc. I don't believe the AR10 nomenclature has to be specific to a 1950 rifle unless I state specifically this is an AR10.
 
I have a rock river 308 ar10 style rifle. It shoots 1moa with any ammo and it weighs a hair over 8 lbs. I cannot immagine anything else with that amout of firepower and that ease of carry. My hk91 is fine for ripping off shots but not nearly as accurate as the ar style. Most engagements in the 'stan are out close to 1000 yds. The little m4 round is not going to hurt anything at that distance.
 
M1A's are more difficult to mount short eye relief optics on. The M1A Scout comes ready for an Aimpoint optic or long eye relief scope. You may want to do some research before buying one.

If you want other optics, then the AR style rifles are the way to go. Take a look at LaRue, Primary Weapon Systems, Knights Armament, Noveske, and others. Buy quality or buy twice.
 
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I have a high end DSA FAL and it required some decent breaking in time before I could call it reliable, but topped with an ACOG I can hit anything I can see and it is the *easiest* weapon besides perhaps a knife to maintain.. they break in half like a shotgun and it takes about 3 minutes to field strip, clean, and put back together.
 
most impressive battle rifle? a bradley. I really like the m-14 for this thread. I liked the video of the guy who could control one on full auto. The problem is that no one else could control them, as in all .308 battle rifles. as a full auto rifle the 7.62x51 was not much good, as a semi auto sdm rifle, superb. anyway, is a 7.62 rifle that was never used in battle a battle rifle?
 
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