What knife for marine?

[poodlenme]

He just got out of boot camp and is now in Camp Pendellton to be shipped out to Iraq or Afganistan in July. Hes in the infantry.
I told him I would get him a really good knife to take with him. All I have found online are Ka Bars fixed blades and that was the one I wanted to get him.
He was recently told by a superior that he wasnt allowed a fixed blade, only a folding knife with a max. length of only 3 inches.

My question is how can he protect himself properly with such a small knife? And folders are prone to jamming and breaking in all that sand.

So now, I dont know what to get him. I want him to have a quality knife to use in the field and for protection if need be. The Ka Bar I thought was sort of a tradition in the Marine corps. So what gives?

What kind of knife should I send him? I dont want it taken away from him before he even gets overseas if the blade is too long.

What do'yall recommend I get him? Thank you for your time and I appreicate it. I am a female, but my dad got me collecting knives when I was just a girl. I dont collect tacticals and know little about them, so your help in appreciated. (I collect folders and customs like Yellowhorse, love Kershaw, CRKT, colonel, and some case and anything else that I find appealing)

 

[p35]

There are people on this forum who have done tours in the Middle East, and I'm not one of them. The impression I get, though, is that the odds of needing to use a knife in a fight are pretty low.

I think the idea of "tactical" knives designed for fighting is oversold. I know of people who got killed in prison with razor blades melted into toothbrush handles. I would look for a strong utility knife that will help open ammunition and MRE crates and possibly cut people out of crashed Humvees. If the need presents itself adrenalin and a strong sharp knife of any kind will do the trick.

 

[bigun454]

If you dont like K-BAR like me and most other marines like me,check out the SOG line up really good knives in the $100 and up range.Tell your nephew thanks a ton and semper fi for me.

 

[TimboKhan]

I was a 0331 in the USMC, and the two times that we deployed, big knives were nothing more than a nuisance, to include the Ka-Bar. I mean, I had a Ka-Bar, and it was a perfectly servicable knife and all, but as the hand-to-hand instructor told us at MCRD "If it comes down to a knife fight, you're already screwed". Honestly, for the knife chores that the average Marine has on a daily basis, any good folder will do.

Now, with that being said, just because I didn't want to haul around the extra weight doesn't mean someone else shouldn't if they so desire. Knives are one of the few things that you can carry that fits what you want in a weapon/tool as opposed to what the USMC gives you. If someone wants to haul around a Bowie knife, what do I care?

 

[JShirley]

I suggest the Spyderco Waved Endura or Delica, along with an On/Scene "Speed Dialer" sheath. This will give him a good sized implement that is useful, quality construction, quickly accessible, lightweight, and won't have other combat troops laughing at him.

 

[leadcounsel]

I'm not a Marine, but I'm a Soldier in a pretty bad a$$ combat brigade unit; 3rd Brigade, 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault).

Whether a Marine or Soldier can have a combat knife seems quite arbitrary. We cannot have our own personal 'weapons' but large knives generally don't fall under that category. I bet he probably will find that he CAN later, but may not feel the need. I happen to have an outstanding combat knife strapped to the front of my body armor - I use a Gerber with a 4 1/2" blade.

In our Brigade, I would estimate that 25% of Soldiers have a 4"+ fixed blade fighting knife attached to their armor for close quarter combat (raids on houses, small rooms, etc. that you find yourself frequently in). For $50-100, lightweight, and minimal space and repeated/unlimited use, there is no better tool for the money than a good combat knife.

He will get more daily use from a 3" folding knife and that's probably the most valuable tool I have on my person on a day to day basis (I also carry a leatherman in addition to a lot of other things). I open MREs, care packages, cut rope/cord, food items, you name it. It's sooo handy! I use a little 3" Camilus folder that was a deployment gift. I love it, but sadly they are out of business.

But if he ever NEEDED a combat knife (say his weapon went down), it would be worth 1000 times its weight in gold. I am no pro at folding knives. I have something that I like, but they are no longer available. Other knife guys here can help you pick something. Mine is spring loaded opener, which I find very handy.

As far as the combat knife, if he finds he wants one later, he can order one on Amazon or knives plus or whatever and they will deliver.

Here are some other invaluable gift ideas for deploying military -

1. LED flashlight, something with a red lense filter, and belt holster. We are often in the dark and on uneven terrain. And/or a small keyfob style green or red or blue LED.

2. Gerber or leatherman tool. Many of us get them issued, but many don't. They are very handy, especially the pliers and screwdrivers.

Other Soldiers/Marines will laugh at you if you have a big knife; if you need it in a fight you are already screwed...

I don't understand this and think that this line of reasoning should stop. Our grandfathers swore by their Kabars and most pictures of Vietnam, WWII, etc Soldiers and Marines had large fighting knives... Like I said, about a quarter of 3BCT Soldiers do now. In fact, it was mandatory to carry the issued fighting knife on 3BCTs last deployment. Now it's optional.

Why the change in attitude? Are Iraqis invulerable to the knife? Are we done killing insurgents? Are we done raiding homes and taking detainees? Are we done fighting in close quarter, urban combat where weapons fail? The answer is no. The knife is an inexpensive and invaluable small tool. If you need a knife you aren't screwed UNLESS YOU DON'T HAVE ONE! I don't buy into this "odds" bull****. We are in a combat zone. The odds of me (and all of you here) needing a CCW are very low, but most of us CCW.

Your other questions: Folders won't be affected by sand and are easily cleaned off. Kabars are a tradition but there are better knives for the money. Kabars are, really, probably alittle too big. Something with a 4-5" fixed blade is probably the most managable. Look at Gerber prodigy.

 

[JShirley]

But if he ever NEEDED a combat knife (say his weapon went down)

I'm sorry. I respect who you are and what you're doing, but this reasoning is bogus. Even a nonfunctioning M4 is a better combat tool than any knife smaller than a sword.

Why the change in attitude?

Respectfully, even back as far as the Civil War (the first modern war, incidentally), troops with large knives usually discarded them once they started marching. Just visit the Civil War museum for many examples of such discarded knives.

Now, my suggestion, especially the Endura, will give an instantly available option for wear on IBA, that can be dismounted and carried in the pocket for general use when not geared up.

I've been tasked out to real go fast troops, both 3rd and 7th Group. 3rd Group were the fightingest SOBs I've ever seen. You know what they carried, with practically any gear they wanted available to them?

Benchmade folders. They only time I saw a large knife actually used in Afghanistan was by a Marine NCO on a MEDCAP mission, and he would use it to herd the locals. It was really just an icon.

John

 

[The Tourist]

Find something disposable.

 

[C-D-P]

I would like to know what superior told him he could not have a fixed blade?

That is total BS.

In all actuality (overthere), knives are only good for opening MREs and playing mumbely pegs. Save your cash and regualrly send him state side cope. If he dips he will be thankful (Framaldihagen sucks), if he does not dip he can make some extra money.

Do you know his TO weapon?

 

[leadcounsel]

JShirley said:

Even a nonfunctioning M4 is a better combat tool than any knife smaller than a sword.

I respectfully disagree. Yes, a nonfunctioning M4 can possibly be made to function, but I've also had critically nonfuncitioning weapons that were nothing more than an unweildy club.

Respectfully, even back as far as the Civil War (the first modern war, incidentally), troops with large knives usually discarded them once they started marching.

It's a hard sell to make me believe that Soldiers abandoned their knives. Makes no sense whatsoever.

I think most would agree that a knife is a better melee weapon than a club, particularly in a vehicle, being tackled, in a small room, etc.

I personally would rather take a fixed blade razor sharp 4-5" blade than a club. In fact, there are many knife experts that claim that a knife is a MORE POTENT weapon than a gun in a one-on-one fight. I've never heard anyone claim that of a club. Just to be clear, I'm not one of those people that think a knife is better than a gun, but I do subscribe to the school of thought that a knife, at about 1 lb, is much better than a club.

I'm not advocating against a folder. I carry a folder too. Either way, I think it important to have some type of knife on ones' IBA/IOTV.

And, let's not forget, he may be a gunner or carry an 9mm. Either of these would be a good weapon to supplement with a fighting knife.

 

[TimboKhan]

Why the change in attitude? Are Iraqis invulerable to the knife? Are we done killing insurgents? Are we done raiding homes and taking detainees? Are we done fighting in close quarter, urban combat where weapons fail? The answer is no.

As JShirley said, a buttstroke to the face is more effective than trying to hack and slash with someone. It also creates distance. For that matter, an axe handle is a better alternative to a combat knife if you really need something other than a rifle. Do you know how to knife fight effectively? I don't, and it takes a lot of training to get to the point where your good at it. But, I know you can swing a club, and it takes no training to get good at that.

Like I said, if you want to carry a big knife, carry a big knife. It's your choice, not mine. My time in the suck taught me that it was unnecessary, but that was my lesson learned, not yours.

 

[JShirley]

I think most would agree that a knife is a better melee weapon than a club, particularly in a vehicle, being tackled, in a small room, etc.

I completely disagree, and I challenge you to find any expert who says this (that a smallish knife is superior to a longer blunt object). If you believe this, I have to say, you are wrong. Completely wrong. It's your choice, but that doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.

John

 

[Green Lantern]

He was recently told by a superior that he wasnt allowed a fixed blade, only a folding knife with a max. length of only 3 inches.

Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot - that's worse than NC knife laws!

Hmmm...I'm no knife expert, but you might look into some of Cold Steel's offerings, like the Voyager. (I was gonna suggest an SRK or Recon Tanto before I read the 'no fixed blade' part)

 

[C-D-P]

Lead. A good number of 31s carry M4s now.

Like I said before, a knife is only good for opening MREs and mumbely pegs.

 

[moxie]

Since he's been told he's authorized only a 3" folder, get him a quality Benchmade, Spyderco, etc., for $50-100. I'd recommend partially serrated which will make line/rope cutting easier. Also consider a good Swiss Army Knife. There are few things handier than the tweezers, toothpick, scissors, etc. on a SAK, day in and day out. Then, later, after he gets the lay of the land, ask him what else he really wants. His answer will depend in large part on his actual duties. Not all marines have the same job.

 

[Green Lantern]

SAK - maybe a Gerber or Leatherman tool? Those things are MIGHTY handy...

 

[leadcounsel]

Bottom line is that a laceration or stab with a 4.5" fixed blade knife will stop a fight WORLDS faster than a clubing or buttstroke. And the typical person can easily block or sidestep a buttstroke or clubswing whereas the same isn't true against a fighting knife slash or stab.

And from a fighting standpoint, a club/buttstroke opens the fighter up to counter attack much more than a slash or a stab. A deep laceration will quickly end the fight in the other combatant.

Put another way, clubs are about the lowest tech as a form of combat weapon, just above rocks. Hardened steel fighting blades are just behind the arrow and bullet.

And the bottom line is that if for whatever reason you are hand-to-hand, you'd better get "un-hand-to-hand" as quickly as possible. That's accomplished by neurtalizing the threat immediately and fixing your primary (reload, SPORTS, picking it up, etc.).

 

[C-D-P]

Ya know, he would be within his rights to ask to see the order banning fixed blades.

There is no such MCO.

Regardless, he will have a blade. The new Bayonets are pretty good. The KA-Bars we use are not real KA-Bars.

But it matters not.

 

[leadcounsel]

I agree that I'm not aware of any general prohibition, as I stated above, but there may be a commander prohibition, and an order is an order. It need not be in writing, but I think he's in his rights to check for clarification and consistency. Was it just a whimsical statement by an NCO that isn't supported by command, or actually the intend of his command?

 

[Piedmont Plinker]

Something along these lines. Not too big to be un-useful, not too small to be not-viable as a backup weapon.
I'm no soldier, martial artist, or cop, but I agree with both Jshirley and leadcounsel. Sure, a rifle-club will be more effective than a knife, if you have room to swing it. If you don't, it's always good to have an option.
Also, a good Leatherman/Vic/SOG/Gerber multi, and a Benchmade Mini-Grip or Grip.

 

[C-D-P]

but there may be a commander prohibition, and an order is an order. It need not be in writing, but I think he's in his rights to check for clarification and consistency. Was it just a whimsical statement by an NCO that isn't supported by command, or actually the intend of his command?

Honestly sounds like an uninformed NCO talking. But you are right, the CO has ultimate authority.

For example. many moons ago 3/8 and other elements of ACM went into Haiti to do SASO and HA. CO's guidance was that no one took anything that was not issued.

One kid wanted to bring a 12" coup knife from USCalvery.com.

As per commanders guidance, telling him no was lawfull.

But I have not heard anything in the box that mirrors this.

Still, the OP's money would be better spent buying Cope and baby wipes.

 

[Navy joe]

What knife for marine?

You're going about it all wrong. Knife a Marine and you'll just make him mad. If you want to bag a Marine you need a big net. And two Air Force women to use as bait.

Seriously, I cannot understand telling a Marine no knife more than 3". Grenades ok, SMAW just peachy, 4" knife? That's crazy talk.

Will he carry an M9? buy him some new Beretta brand mags. Knife, get the Kabar, he might not need it, but it is de rigeur. If he can't take it, send it off and get his name, unit, and deployment dates engraved in it.

 

[C-D-P]

Joe... You were a doc wern't ya!

 

[VPLthrneck]

The best non-issued blade I've ever carried in the Marines is a Leatherman. So if you're going to pay for something that you want him to get use out of go with a good-quality multi-tool. The Leatherman and Gerber's are reliable and tough. Really surprise him and get his name engraved in it.
We had a few guys buy there own Ka-Bars, but it was really frowned upon. If our command wanted to make on issue of 3"+ blades then these guys would have had to check them into the ammory.
Orders like this gets put in the base barracks regulations, so when he got his barrack's room he fell under that order. This is also where they put the rules and regs for fire-arms.

 

[rcmodel]

+1
A good Multi-Tool folding plier would probably be WAY more useful, and used more often, then any knife you can possibly get him.

And the folding blades in a Multi-Tool fits the bill as far as "legal length" over there.

Wish they had been invented years ago when I was active duty!

rcmodel