What makes an illegal handgun?

[Maelstrom]

Feel free to doubt it. It doesn't make it any less true.

I would highly recommend reading up on firearms law if you don't want to go hard and fast on the advice posted here.

Used to be some phrase about wanting something done right and doing it yourself.....

 

[Maelstrom]

Feel free to doubt it. It doesn't make it any less true.

I would highly recommend reading up on firearms law if you don't want to go hard and fast on the advice posted here.

Used to be some phrase about wanting something done right and doing it yourself.....

 

[NavyLCDR]

Deleted

 

[NavyLCDR]

deleted

 

[Maelstrom]

Feel free to doubt it. It doesn't make it any less true.

I would highly recommend reading up on firearms law if you don't want to go hard and fast on the advice posted here.

Used to be some phrase about wanting something done right and doing it yourself.....

 

[NavyLCDR]

Deleted

 

[Maelstrom]

Feel free to doubt it. It doesn't make it any less true.

I would highly recommend reading up on firearms law if you don't want to go hard and fast on the advice posted here.

Used to be some phrase about wanting something done right and doing it yourself.....

 

[NavyLCDR]

It is against FL State law for ANYONE to furnish any firearm to a minor under the age of 18 (Title XLVI, Chapter 790.17, first quote below). It is against Federal law for ANYONE to furnish a handgun to a juvenile under the age of 18 (18 USC 922(x), second quote below). It is against Federal law for a DEALER only to transfer a handgun to a person under 21 (18 USC 922(b), third quote below).

It is perfectly legal for a private party (18 years or older) who can legally possess the hangun to sell or give that handgun to another 18 years or older person who is otherwise legal to possess that handgun, in Florida (other states vary according to state law).

Florida Statute:

790.17 Furnishing weapons to minors under 18 years of age or persons of unsound mind and furnishing firearms to minors under 18 years of age prohibited.--
(2)(a) A person may not knowingly or willfully sell or transfer a firearm to a minor under 18 years of age, except that a person may transfer ownership of a firearm to a minor with permission of the parent or guardian. A person who violates this paragraph commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

Federal law:

TITLE 18--CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I--CRIMES
CHAPTER 44--FIREARMS
Sec. 922. Unlawful acts
(x)(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile--
(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
(5) For purposes of this subsection, the term ``juvenile'' means a person who is less than 18 years of age.

Federal Law:

Sec. 922. Unlawful acts
(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver--
(1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;

 

[Maelstrom]

It would appear the LT and I are having posting problems.

 

[NavyLCDR]

It would appear that Maelstrom and I are having posting problems.

 

[acn001]

That just doesn't make any sense. If the any FFL is only alowed to sell pistols in florida to persons at the age 21 and over. How is it lawful to sell a pistol to anyone under the age of 21 on a private sell?

My next qustions would be, after selling, is it legal for the gun to be registered at a FFL dealer even if the owner is under the age of 21?

Please don't take this the wrong way, I am just trying to get a better idea considering some of you have more experience with this type of stuff Mael.

 

[NavyLCDR]

There is no gun registration in Florida.

Many laws concerning federal employees or federally licensed persons are more restrictive than for ordinary citizens. The 18 to 20 year old handgun rule is true in many states, Washington is another one that I know for sure.

As far as receiving a handgun from an 18-20 year old by an FFL: let's say an 18 year old has a handgun, he wants to trade it in at a licensed dealer for a rifle or shotgun. Yes the dealer may RECEIVE the handgun from the 18 year old, and sell him a rifle or shotgun. However the dealer cannot transfer TO an 18 year old a handgun, or ammunition to be used in a handgun.

 

[acn001]

Interesting... Can an 18 year old purchase pistol ammunition in the state of Florida? Sorry, you answered this questino already...lmao


Another question, if there is no regestration in Florida, I sold my beretta 9000 to a friend. If he does not register the firearm what happens if indeed this firearm is used to commit a crime. The firearm will obvioulsy come back to me once they run it...

Thanks for all your help guys. I really appreciate it.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Can an 18 year old purchase pistol ammunition in the state of Florida?

An 18 year old can purchase pistol ammuntion from a private party, not from a dealer. Not from a dealer is the same federal law as the handgun. There is a difference, however... an 18 year old can legally give a 21+ person money, the 21+ person can go to a dealer, buy the ammunition and then give it to the 18 year old SO LONG AS no false oral or written statement is made to the dealer. This is NOT a straw purchase, because there is no question asked on a form "Are you the actual purchaser" like there is for a firearm. And so long as you keep your mouth shut to the dealer, no law is broken. And I know the flames are coming for me saying that, but it's true.

The firearm will obvioulsy come back to me once they run it...

Contrary to popular belief, there is no database that the 4473 all go into that matches serial numbers with purchasers. They can't "run" the serial number like your license plate. What they can do is, contact the manufacturer with the serial number. The manufacturer tells them who they shipped that gun to. The police go to that party. That party tells them, I sold that gun to so and so.

HOWEVER, now the police must prove that gun was yours during the actual comission of the crime. If you tell the police, I sold that gun to so and so... now it is up to them to prove that you didn't, because no records of private sales are required in Florida. If you want to CYA, get a signed receipt for the gun from the person you are selling it to.

 

[acn001]

This is great. Thanks for all the info. I can sleep easy now b/c I sold the 9000 about a year and a half ago. I do not doubt my friend that I sold it to, just always had something in the back of my head. I do have a bill of sale signed by the purchaser with a witness.

Beautiful...!!! Thanks.

 

[NavyLCDR]

You didn't even need the witness, but it lends more credability, I suppose. Just name, date, make, model and serial number.

 

[trigga]

i thought in mn you need a hand gun permit? my cousin was looking at my ak and he was thinking about getting one, he said he needed a hand gun permit for anything with a pistol grip or pistol in general. he is from st. paul. also isn't it illegal to put a front grip on hand guns? i've read somewhere about it in the tec 9 forum somewhere that you couldn't put front grips on handguns, but i've seen them on ar15 "pistols"... perhaps they are sbr?? (short barrel rifle which require tax stamp or somewhat)

 

[jerkface11]

That just doesn't make any sense. If the any FFL is only alowed to sell pistols in florida to persons at the age 21 and over. How is it lawful to sell a pistol to anyone under the age of 21 on a private sell?

Because gun laws don't make sense.

 

[Kind of Blued]

His state better practice it, because it is FEDERAL law. Federal law states that you must be 21 to buy ammo to be used in a HANDGUN from a DEALER. He can buy all the rifle ammo he wants from anybody, and he can buy all the handgun ammo he wants from a private person. He can even have someone 21 or over buy the handgun ammo for him, so long as no false oral or written statements are made to the dealer.

So basically, as uncomfortable as it may be, a friend could go in to Wal-Mart, show them his ID when asked "Can I see your ID?", tell them "Handgun" when asked "Is this for a rifle or a handgun?", pay for it with anybody's money, walk out, and give it to the OP legally?

It sounds like as long as you don't have to answer "Is this being purchased for your personal handgun?" you'd be alright. Rather ridiculous.

 

[NavyLCDR]

So basically, as uncomfortable as it may be, a friend could go in to Wal-Mart, show them his ID when asked "Can I see your ID?", tell them "Handgun" when asked "Is this for a rifle or a handgun?", pay for it with anybody's money, walk out, and give it to the OP legally?

It sounds like as long as you don't have to answer "Is this being purchased for your personal handgun?" you'd be alright. Rather ridiculous.

Yep. Here is the statute that the whole "straw purchase" scenario comes from. When a straw purchase of a firearm is made, an offense is committed against this statute by making the written statement, "I am the actual purchaser of the firearm" on the 4473. So, no false statements made to the dealer - no straw purchase. Is it a "technicality"? Probably, but that is the way the law is written.

TITLE 18--CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

PART I--CRIMES

CHAPTER 44--FIREARMS

Sec. 922. Unlawful acts

(a) It shall be unlawful--(6) for any person in connection with the acquisition or attempted acquisition of any firearm or ammunition from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, knowingly to make any false or fictitious oral or written statement or to furnish or exhibit any false, fictitious, or misrepresented identification, intended or likely to deceive such importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector with respect to any fact material to the lawfulness of the sale or other disposition of such firearm or ammunition under the provisions of this chapter;