I am in the market for my first AR-15. I was set on the Smith & Wesson M&P15FT (1,299) until the sales rep showed me a Colt AR-15A2 for (1,399). I like all the features on the Smith but the sales guy said that Colt's quality is superior and recommended that I consider it. Am I am better off with the Smith or the Colt? Are there major differences in quality between AR's in general. The sales guy said that the only gun that is possibly better than the colt would be a Lewis and Machine (which they had several of but were in the 1,700 range). Thanks for your thoughts.
What Makes the Colt AR-15 Better?
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mljdeckard
Member
First of all, shop around. I bet you can do a lot better than that.
I THINK, that ANY AR is good enough for the average shooter. You have to REALLY push them hard to show the difference between the bottom level ones and the top level ones. Meaning, more than most shooters will shoot in a lifetime. Buy ANY of them, they will work fine.
Having said that, there are subtle distinctions in quality between tiers. I think a lot of them are over-touted, such as the "staked bolt carrier key" I had a PROPERLY STAKED military issue key come loose. I do NOT see that the Colt is better than an LMT, and the best is probably Noveske, they use actual machine gun barrels to make their barrels.
If you have to ask, it probably makes no differece to you.
I THINK, that ANY AR is good enough for the average shooter. You have to REALLY push them hard to show the difference between the bottom level ones and the top level ones. Meaning, more than most shooters will shoot in a lifetime. Buy ANY of them, they will work fine.
Having said that, there are subtle distinctions in quality between tiers. I think a lot of them are over-touted, such as the "staked bolt carrier key" I had a PROPERLY STAKED military issue key come loose. I do NOT see that the Colt is better than an LMT, and the best is probably Noveske, they use actual machine gun barrels to make their barrels.
If you have to ask, it probably makes no differece to you.
We should make a poll voting on the top 10 AR makers and then posts the results in a sticky so when someone asks our opinions they will have the top 10 ranked at the top of the forum. Of course that would be our opinion which is what they are asking for.
berettaprofessor
Member
I'm betting the sales guy gets a better margin on the Colt.....To my knowledge, the only real difference is in the pin sizes of the two....yes the manufacturer of the lower may be different, but any difference is negligible.
Artiz
Member
Nothing, they are not a "better" AR-15.
You can build your own quality AR-15 for a few hundred bucks less than an actual AR-15, and you'll know how the thing works.
You can build your own quality AR-15 for a few hundred bucks less than an actual AR-15, and you'll know how the thing works.
we do have a sticky. it's the library. read it sometime.
if you were comparing the colt LE m4 (6920) with the smith m4, the colt would clearly be worth the extra bucks. the colt A2 model however... meh. definitely higher resale value, but who knows if it's actually better?
if you were comparing the colt LE m4 (6920) with the smith m4, the colt would clearly be worth the extra bucks. the colt A2 model however... meh. definitely higher resale value, but who knows if it's actually better?
blue_ridge
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it's a good idea, but most people just vote for the AR they have without any experience of any other ones. So you end up getting the same rumors and hearsay that circulates everywhere.
RockyMtnTactical
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Colt has better QC, meaning it is less likely to break prematurely.
Both guns are good, however, I recommend BCM or LMT. You get the quality of the Colt for less $$.
Both guns are good, however, I recommend BCM or LMT. You get the quality of the Colt for less $$.
I have an LMT standard 16" carbine. It costs around $1000-1100. Not $1700. Now, LMT's "Monolithic Rail Platform" rifle costs a pretty penny more, but the standard carbine is around the $1000 mark. The LMT rifles are very good rifles, though, I would not quite say they are better than Colt. Rather, I consider them equal.
S&W M&Ps can vary in price depending on what's on them.
The Colt LE6920 carbine can be had for around $1000-1100 at this time.
You are on the right track with these brands, just shop around for a better deal and one configured to where you want it. Buy what you want of those three brands, for they are all good. Other brands to consider that have comparable quality include Daniel Defense, Bravo Company, Charles Daly Defense, Noveske, depending on what is and is not available in your state.
There's a small gap between S&W and Colt/LMT quality. Buy what makes you happy, and if the S&W M&P-15 FT is what you are looking for, it looks to be a good rifle. . There is a larger gap between Colt/LMT and lower quality brands.
Now, I would NOT recommend buying a rifle with an A-1 or A-2 style fixed carry handle (which it sounds like that Colt AR-15A2 has). Removable carry handle uppers (flattops) are much better suited to optics. Even if you eschew optics at this point in time, you will probably want to try them later.
S&W M&Ps can vary in price depending on what's on them.
The Colt LE6920 carbine can be had for around $1000-1100 at this time.
You are on the right track with these brands, just shop around for a better deal and one configured to where you want it. Buy what you want of those three brands, for they are all good. Other brands to consider that have comparable quality include Daniel Defense, Bravo Company, Charles Daly Defense, Noveske, depending on what is and is not available in your state.
There's a small gap between S&W and Colt/LMT quality. Buy what makes you happy, and if the S&W M&P-15 FT is what you are looking for, it looks to be a good rifle. . There is a larger gap between Colt/LMT and lower quality brands.
Now, I would NOT recommend buying a rifle with an A-1 or A-2 style fixed carry handle (which it sounds like that Colt AR-15A2 has). Removable carry handle uppers (flattops) are much better suited to optics. Even if you eschew optics at this point in time, you will probably want to try them later.
average_shooter
Member
I've been seeing local ads in the paper advertising the S&W M&Ps for as low as $750 around here. I paid $850 (before tax) for a Bushmaster a few years back. Not saying the Bushmaster is "better" or the M&P is a better deal, just what I paid compared to what I'm seeing these days.
Big Russ
Member
Frankly, the guy you were talking to was being a salesman. You can easily buy a Smith & Wesson MP-15 for under $900 before taxes, you just need to talk them down and not walk in there set on the MSRP.
I almost made that mistake, the first time I walked in and talked to the store owners my MP-15 was listed at $1099 and three weeks later I talked it down 200 bucks. It's not gonna hurt their revenue either, plus, if he really wants to make a sale, he'll work with you - if not, go somewhere else because I'm willing to bet there is someone out there who will go lower than the MSRP.
I will tell you (with a bias) that the MP-15s are some fine rifles, but still do some research of your own so that you don't get buyer's regret.
I almost made that mistake, the first time I walked in and talked to the store owners my MP-15 was listed at $1099 and three weeks later I talked it down 200 bucks. It's not gonna hurt their revenue either, plus, if he really wants to make a sale, he'll work with you - if not, go somewhere else because I'm willing to bet there is someone out there who will go lower than the MSRP.
I will tell you (with a bias) that the MP-15s are some fine rifles, but still do some research of your own so that you don't get buyer's regret.
skidooman603
Member
Love my prancing horse! Was it worth the extra $? Prolly not but now I own it, so it's worth it to me. I like to deal with "local" dealers so find your best deal on the web print it out, take it to a small local guy and give him the chance to come close....Merry Christmas
Omaha-BeenGlockin
Member
If its the LE Colt--big difference--and worth the money.
If its the current Colt civilian/commercial offering---not so much.
As said before---you can find them for $1000-$1100 now.
Building your own is also an option---built my last one for less than $800--using a Daniel Defence closeout barrel from Brownell's---and a Daniel Defence bolt/carrier with $20 off coupon code from Midway------so the "guts" of this last build were first class parts---on the cheap.
If its the current Colt civilian/commercial offering---not so much.
As said before---you can find them for $1000-$1100 now.
Building your own is also an option---built my last one for less than $800--using a Daniel Defence closeout barrel from Brownell's---and a Daniel Defence bolt/carrier with $20 off coupon code from Midway------so the "guts" of this last build were first class parts---on the cheap.
Zach S
Member
LE colts are made with better parts than most off the rack ARs.
Commercial guns are more expensive because of the rollmark.
Commercial guns are more expensive because of the rollmark.
If your buying it as an investment or plan on selling it down the line, get a Colt. If your going to keep it and use it, I think there's better options out there for you. I like my Rock River, my friend loves his Bushmaster they both do the same thing. For the money you will spend on a Colt you can buy a Les Baer.
surfinUSA
Member
Colt and Bushmaster use 4150 grade steel in their barrels rather than 4140 and they have chrome lined bores and chambers. Neither mean much for a fun gun but for a working gun the chrome lining ensures reliability and if the gun is full auto capable the 4150 will last longer.
Pony Express
Member
I agree with this.
but to the OP, I have a colt, its a nice rifle and I will probably never sell it, but for what I'm using it for (coyotes and paper) I reckon anything will do. My one suggestion is that you buy an AR with an a3 upper and a detachable carry handle. I'm looking to buy a scope for my AR and I have an a1 upper, so I have to either buy a new upper or a carry handle mount.
kwelz
Member
Post like this make my brain hurt. I assume you have some proof of this? Oh wait. No, no you don't. Because someone who claims a DPMS is better than a Colt is showing their ignorance and/or Bias.
Colt will meet the TDP in every way possible for a civilian gun, Smith will have a lot, but not all of the features. RRA and DPMS are barely even on the radar.
If you really want a great gun for less money then look at BCM. You are going to spend about the same you would on a RRA without the cutting corners that RRA is guilty of.
kwelz
Member
And what numbers of each are we talking here? I am amazed that you must be magically dialed into some alternate reality that differs from all others I have seen and heard. Like say Pat Rodgers. Larry Vickers, or Chris Costa. Ever been to one of their classes? Ever heard them talk about the number of DPSM, RRA, etc that fail in their classes? It is a HELL of a lot more than they see with Colts, etc.
What did these ARs go back for? I see a lot of complaining about fit and finish but reported problems with functionality on colts, BCM, Noveske, etc seems to be few and far between.
What did these ARs go back for? I see a lot of complaining about fit and finish but reported problems with functionality on colts, BCM, Noveske, etc seems to be few and far between.
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