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What new gun control laws do you see being proposed?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by answerguy, Apr 18, 2007.

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  1. answerguy

    answerguy Member

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    Obviously it will happen because of this latest tragedy. Some like renewing the AWB and closing the guns show 'loophole' have no connection to the recent events. Magazine capacity may be one proposed and at least have a connection to the crime. How about making selling guns to non US citizens illegal? Do you think that may happen?
     
  2. Dan from MI

    Dan from MI Member

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    I expect a ban on all non citizens from owing firearms. That will pass easily. I'm most concerned about gun shows, AWB, and magazine bans.
     
  3. PILMAN

    PILMAN Member

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    I'm sure there will be lots of bans not even related to the situation.

    I see some very heavy restrictions on handguns (doubt they will be banned completely), prices on 9mm may raise or taxes on the ammo. They may require background checks and FFL to buy ammo.

    Magazine cap ban, 10 rounds or less.

    Assault weapon ban

    Gun show loophole will likely be closed and those wanting to do face to face deals will likely have to go through FFL

    there could be longer waiting periods and 1 gun a month proposed.

    That's what I see to be honest with you.
     
  4. ozwyn

    ozwyn Member

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    I am thinking Dan has the best guess there on the citizenship angle. It also plays into immigration fears, so in many areas where such laws might not normally sell it may recieve backing.
     
  5. Battler

    Battler Member

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    I'm not seeing much of anything, except for the AWB. Rest diluted or forgotten.

    Noncitizens is IMHO a dead end. A noncitizen is at max 5 years from being a voting citizen. It's too logistically difficult to make the transition (what do you do with all the guns noncitizens already own?) It'd be hard to make it stick, hard to get real momentum on unless they stick it to something else, then there's the whole "antiimmigrant" angle the kind of people pushing gun control don't really want. Again, a PR is 0-5 years from being a voter. . . .

    For someone 14 years on a GC like this kid he was one "I swear allegiance to the flag" away from being a citizen anyway.

    With all the extra exclusions (beyond felony) on gun ownership, I believe it's easier to become a US citizen than to buy a gun as it is.
     
  6. Marshall

    Marshall Member

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    Waiting periods

    Limits on numbers

    Assualt weapon
     
  7. strat81

    strat81 Member

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    How about this for a gun control law: If you kill someone with a gun, you will go to jail and have your gun taken away.

    We really need a law like that.
     
  8. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Member

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    I hope there are no new gun laws passed. My expectation is that you will see a multitude of bills considered but especially the revived AWB bill that I believe is in committee. It will be a fight, but it will flush out the presidential candidates as far as their views on firearms legislation. I would not be surprised that Bush would sign a bill reviving the AWB if it passed both the House and Senate. Afterall, prior to the last presidential election, he in fact said just that.

    The most worrisome of requirements would be some sort of pyschological testing, national database (registry) of perscription drug use, and a requirement for mental health professionals to provide information to the government relative to the mental worthiness or acceptibility of someone wanting to purchase or own a firearm (especially a handgun). My suspicision is that these professionals will not want the liability of certification and they also tend to lean toward the more liberal side of the political arena. Hence, this will become a pay me or forget buying a firearm kind of thing. This worries me and a requirement that could pass after the VA Tech shootings as being a reasonable approach to limiting ownership of firearms to only sane people.

    I do not see any action on a bill making ownership of firearms by legal permanent residents (green card) illegal. These are good people for the most part. There are always wackos in our society and they aren't limited to green card holders. If they are seeking US citizenship, they have a great deal to loose by doing something stupid with regard to firearms.

    Maybe we can get CCW reduced from age 21 to 18 so college students can legally carry a firearm. That would be huge change as there are limitations on age now on ownership.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2007
  9. Thumper

    Thumper Member

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    Those of you who believe that new laws will be implemented because of this...I have a quick question: How long have you been in the RKBA fight?

    The reason I ask is that the media response to this type of attrocity has changed dramatically in our favor. This is nothing compared to Columbine or Dunblane. Our "hearts and minds" campaign has been working.

    I don't mean for anyone to get complacent, but we seem to have a lot of gloom and doomers around these days and I wonder if they were around and aware during the late eighties to mid nineties period.

    I think the current makeup of Congress is a bit of a concern, but I really think that most anti representatives have realized that theirs is a lost cause.

    We have been absolutely kicking their rears from a legislative and legal standpoint.
     
  10. MikeH

    MikeH Member

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    Not really. You need to know some basic facts about US history and political system, demonstrate English speaking, reading, and writing skills, and know who are your president, vice-president, governor, senators and congressmen/women. You also need to get fingerprinted and pass a FBI background check.

    Almost forgot, there is a $400 fee.
     
  11. Battler

    Battler Member

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    MikeH:

    You are correct. I meant the exclusions.

    The things that will stop you buying a gun will never really go away. There are all those little addons (child criminal history, etc.) excluding one from gun ownership.

    The only irreperable thing I can think of on those other filters is the test - it is possibly to be irreperably mentally impaired so as to be unable to memorize that simple test and still buy a gun.

    People bring such laws up such that: "Well, at least this would have stopped the massacre" (at least, try to tell themselves that).

    For someone in this kid's position, becoming a citizen vs. not is merely a matter of having a free afternoon to burn at the ceremony.
     
  12. JLStorm

    JLStorm Member

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    A ban on non-citizen ownership will not be imposed because liberals want & need those votes badly. They know they dont have many citizen gun owners votes anyway, so there isnt much loss by taking away gun rights across the board, but if they target aliens, they risk loosing many votes from a group that otherwise favors them.
     
  13. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Member

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    Lets NOT forget the $400 fee. :) But, honestly speaking, how many average citizens know the names of their elected representatives? Some don't even know who the president and vice-president are which is sad.
     
  14. Rob G

    Rob G Member

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    I've been listening to a lot of the talking heads and I think we might be ahead already in this debate. I've heard people on all the sides of the political spectrum state quite bluntly that new gun control laws would not have done a thing to stop this. I even heard a TV news type ( can't remember his name ) state that he was in favor of allowing people to carry concealed on college campuses because the presence of a CHL holder might have been able to prevent this. Even more astonishing is that his guests agreed with him. As for the anti-gun crowd they're just preaching the same old tired rhetoric. We should not let down our guard but I think people are starting to listen to the truth.

    In the meantime try this argument the next time someone says that the existence and easy availability of guns is dangerous:
    The shootings in Jonesboro AR, Columbine, Viginia Tech, Austin TX (Charles Whitman, 1966 for those who can't remember that one), and that Salt Lake City Mall (can't remember the name) all happened in places where you can't legally carry a gun and therefore only the criminal was armed. On the reverse side, I don't believe I've ever heard of someone going on a rampage in a gun show despite the fact that "evil" weapons are just lying about everywhere. Coincidence? Not a chance.
     
  15. Igloodude

    Igloodude Member

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    Virginia apparently already has a 1-gun-a-month law, or so the press has reported.

    This tragedy is sort of odd as regards gun control - no law that has a realistic chance in hell of passing in Virginia or federally would have prevented anything here. Mag capacities? Sure, but it might have taken him collectively another couple minutes to reload - but the police weren't doing anything effective yet, it would have simply delayed his suicide by a couple minutes.

    Presumably the Brady bunch et al will simply push harder on AWBII and other stuff, but it will get opposed (effectively, I think) with "But why? It wouldn't have stopped Cho." Meanwhile previously uninterested people give some thought to Gun-Free Zones and equate them (thanks to the Brady bunch listing previous shootings at schools and other GFZs) to massacres.

    I don't see anti-gunners getting a whole lot of traction from this event.
     
  16. solareclipse

    solareclipse Member

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    Nonsense after nonsense.

    The guy was admitted to a mental institution. That already violated 4473 in itself. So the fault is with the system for not knowing about it.

    I doubt anything will actually come out of this as far as gun agenda is concerned. It a case where no gun law could have prevented it. We've been over this with columbine. If he couldn't have bought them legally, he would have bought them illegally.

    And the non citizen ban has no chance in frozen hell in passing if it ever comes to the table. So stop cheering over that since it has been brought up at least 20 times this morning. Getting old real fast and shows how hypocritical people are.
     
  17. Outlaw Man

    Outlaw Man Member

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    Sounds about right. Pass a law that would have done nothing to prevent the tragedy if it were in place before. You, my friend, have reached very accurately into the mind of an anti-gunner. I am sure there are people considering this, and it may just get proposed.

    Excluding non-citizens from buying guns and limiting magazine capacity will most certainly be proposed. I'm not sure how much of a chance it has, but they'll try it.

    It's sad that "all men" endowed with "unalienable rights" stops at convenience. And a big portion of this country will support it - even gun owners. That is truely sickening.
     
  18. SkiLune

    SkiLune Member

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    I concur. When even Harry Reid, and packing Jim Webb (who can't seem to keep track of where he keeps his carry weapon) are pro 2A, only marginal players like Kook-cinich and McCarthy are leading the charge to confiscate guns, and when Hillary and Obamarama carefully avoid mentioning the issue (I guess the focus groups have not yet determined what their positions on 2-A should be), I too come to the conclusion they think it is a lost cause.

    But, I don't trust what Hillary/Obamarama or Giuliani would do if elected.
     
  19. Geno
    • Contributing Member

    Geno Member

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    Let's Push for This Law!

    Given the new forces from the internet, and informed experts like us, we should push for a new law to have people "enhance" the CCW to permit carrying in "pistol free zones" for those people who have completed at least a "Tactical Shooting" or "Advanced Tactical Shooting" course. Let's face it, carrying in a crowded H.S. is not the same as the mall. The halls are smaller, more numbers in small areas, and more obstacles. It would seem to be a logical extension of the laws we presently have in Michigan.

    Doc2005
     
  20. Evil Monkey

    Evil Monkey member

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    What's wrong with you guys?

    You guys like to be victims of gun control?

    STOP GETTING SCARED OVER NOTHING!

    If you do your part in the RKBA then nothing will happen. Stop acting like you're defeated.:mad:
     
  21. Geno
    • Contributing Member

    Geno Member

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    Gun Site's Solution...Classes for Educators!

    Give 'em Hades "Evil Monkey"!!!

    I just received this e-mail from Gun Sight. I guess great minds think alike!

    *******************
    Text of e-mail follows:
    *******************

    For Immediate Release
    April 18, 2007

    From Dr. Ignatius Piazza
    Founder and Director
    http://www.frontsight.com
    1.800.987.7719

    Please Forward to Your Local Newspapers, Radio
    Stations, and Television News Stations

    Subject: Gun School For Teachers

    Las Vegas, Nevada: In the wake of the Virginia Tech
    shootings, Front Sight Firearms Training Institute, which
    arguably is the world leader in providing intensified
    courses in the defensive use of firearms for private
    citizens, feels they have the answer to stopping further
    attacks on school children. Front Sight is offering free
    firearms training to any school administrator, teacher, or
    full time staff member designated as school Safety
    Monitors. Front Sight will accept for training up to three
    staff members from each school, college or university.
    Applicants must submit a letter requesting training on
    school letterhead signed by the top school district
    official and designating the applicant as the school's
    Safety Monitor.

    Guns and Teachers

    Front Sight's Founder and Director, Dr. Ignatius Piazza
    understands that his offer may offend some school
    administrators and parents who do not see arming and
    training selected school staff members as a positive
    solution to violent attacks. However, he is quick to point
    out that historically, his approach has worked while gun
    control has actually increased violent crime by shifting
    the balance of power to favor the criminals and lunatics.

    "My offer is not a new idea," says Piazza. "In the early
    70's, Israel was faced with much greater problems of armed
    terrorist attacks on schools. The cry for more gun control
    was heard then too, but Israel very carefully analyzed all
    possible options before adopting the proactive position of
    arming and training their teachers. School shootings
    stopped and terrorists looked for easier targets." He
    maintains that gun control never has and never will stop
    criminals and madmen from carrying out acts of gun
    violence.

    "In our country, every time a misguided individual on
    psychiatric drugs goes on a killing spree, anti-self
    defense legislators, watch the polls and exploit the
    dead victims in order to fool the public into accepting
    more gun control. It is time our country finds some
    resolve and the will to tackle the real problem- which is
    rooting out the actual influences in the lives of our youth
    that predispose them to commit atrocities such as those we
    saw at Virginia Tech. The problem is not guns. Guns don't
    cause these incidents to occur anymore than cameras cause
    child pornography or automobiles cause traffic fatalities.
    Israel had the right answer. Society is safer when we train
    and arm our law abiding citizens. As the defensive training
    leader in the USA, Front Sight is willing and able to set
    the example for the rest of the country to follow."

    Armed Teachers

    Dave Clark, who recently retired after teaching for the
    last 25 years at Junction Junior High School in Livermore,
    California agrees with Front Sight's philosophy. In fact,
    Mr. Clark has previously attended a Four Day Defensive
    Handgun course at Front Sight at his own expense and found
    the course to be exactly what is needed to train fellow
    teachers to stop an attack similar to Columbine school and
    Virginia Tech. "Front Sight provides safe and responsible
    training to a level that exceeds law enforcement
    standards." Says Mr. Clark. "Among the many lessons
    taught, I learned universally accepted rules in justifiable
    use of deadly force. More importantly, I learned when not
    to shoot and how to be more mentally prepared to see a
    lethal confrontation coming before it happens in order to
    avoid it. The firearms training is second to none and
    clearly gives the graduates the skill needed to save the
    lives of those in their charge if ever attacked. If my
    school district chose to adopt a policy of sending selected
    teachers to Front Sight for concealed handgun training, I
    would wholeheartedly support it and volunteer as a Safety
    Monitor. There is no reason for our children to continue to
    be victimized when free, professional training is available
    to stop school attacks."

    Guns in Schools

    There is evidence that a gun in the hand of a teacher will
    stop an armed attacker. The vice-principal of a school in
    Pearl, Mississippi used his handgun to stop and detain an
    armed killer until the police arrived. Dr. Piazza adds, "It
    seems obvious that armed and trained staff members inside
    the school are in a better position to identify the
    attackers and do something immediately to resolve the
    situation. It is much harder for police, who arrive on the
    scene too late to stop the killing."

    Not so convinced is Sharon Piazza, Dr. Piazza's aunt who
    recently retired after 30 years as an elementary teacher
    and school administrator for Oak Grove School District in
    San Jose, California. "The thought of teachers carrying
    guns saddens me greatly. I would feel that we had failed
    as a society and missed the core reason why violence is
    occurring in our youth. It is not guns, but something much
    deeper that is the common thread in all these tragedies. If
    we must arm individuals in the school setting to protect
    our children, I definitely believe they need to be trained
    in when and how to use the weapon. However, I am definitely
    not one who would want to be armed and would not want to
    teach in that setting."

    Lawmakers With Blood on Their Hands

    Another obstacle to Front Sight's offer to train and arm
    teachers is the current law in many states prohibiting the
    possession of firearms on school grounds even when the
    possessor is qualified and has a concealed weapons license.
    Dr. Piazza quickly points out that those laws did not
    prevent or stop the gun violence at numerous schools over
    the last tens years. He states, "The brazen attacks in
    school after school during the last decade indicate
    criminals have concluded that 'Gun-Free-School-Zone'
    actually means 'Government Certified, Helpless and Unarmed
    Victim Zone.'

    Case in Point: House Bill 1572 would have given college
    students and employees the right to carry a concealed
    handgun on campus but this legislation was killed
    in subcommittee by the General Assembly. Virginia Tech
    spokesman Larry Hincker was happy at the time to hear the
    bill had died. Hincker stated, "I'm sure the university
    community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions
    because this helps parents, students, faculty and visitors
    to feel safe on our campus." Mr. Hincker now has rotten egg
    on his face and the General Assembly has blood on their
    hands.

    School administrators, law enforcement agencies,
    and legislators can change laws and policies if they truly
    want to stop these attacks.

    Senator Bob Beers of Nevada had the right answer by
    introducing Senate Bill 286 which authorized teachers
    who hold permits to carry concealed firearms and who
    have completed a specific program of firearms training
    to carry concealed on schools grounds. Nevada lawmakers

    shot
    down Senator Beers' prophetic legislation just one week
    before the Virginia Tech Massacre.

    The voices of Dr. Ignatius Piazza and Senator Bob Beers
    can now be heard through the halls of every school in
    America as they scream, "How many more of our children must
    be gunned down before this country will wake up and pass
    sensible laws that protect our children by placing
    concealed guns in the hands of the good guys? No more
    free-fire-zones for deranged criminals!"

    Schools Can't Afford to Pass on No Cost Security

    Most school districts cannot afford to have even one full
    time police officer in every school, but they can easily
    afford to train three or more of their selected staff
    members to a higher level of firearms training than offered
    in police academies because Front Sight will provide the
    training at no cost."

    Retired law enforcement firearms instructor, Mike Waidelich
    from Bakersfield, California strongly supports the Front
    Sight concept of arming and training teachers. "Nearly
    every tragedy on or off school grounds in the entire 30
    years of my law enforcement career could have been
    prevented or the damage done considerably limited, by the
    presence of an armed and trained individual."

    Concealed Guns

    The training provided in Front Sight's basic training
    classes easily exceeds the training provided in most police
    basic training academies.

    Front Sight proves it on their nationally televised
    reality series Front Sight Challenge shown every week
    on VERSUS Network. Seasoned law enforcement officers
    from around the country go head-to-head in tests of
    marksmanship, speed and tactics against private citizens--
    including teachers-- who have not received any training
    other than Front Sight's firearms courses. Remarkably,
    the Front Sight trained, private citizens are currently
    leading the series 8 : 5.

    Piazza adds, "Teachers will be trained to carry a concealed
    weapon, so potential attackers will not know which teachers
    are armed and which are not. In states that have adopted
    concealed weapon laws for private citizens, violent crime
    has dropped. School attacks will drop as well once it is
    known that any of the teachers and staff members on school
    grounds have the ability and training to stop a violent
    attack immediately."

    Piazza explains that scientific research also supports
    Front Sight's stance on concealed weapon training. He
    references researcher, John Lott, Jr. from the University
    of Chicago School of Law who published Crime, Deterrence
    and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns in July 1996. "Mr.
    Lott's research of cross-sectional time-series data from
    all 3054 U.S. counties from 1977 to 1992 found that
    allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons deters violent
    crime and appears to produce no increase in accidental
    deaths. If those states which did not have right-to-carry
    concealed handgun provisions had adopted them in 1992,
    approximately 1,570 murders, 4,177 rapes, and over 60,000
    aggravated assaults would have been avoided yearly."

    Gun Control Increases Violent Crime

    Piazza asks, "How many times must we experience another
    Littleton, Colorado or Virginia Tech before we wake up,
    study the research and adopt policies which actually reduce
    crime and begin saving our children instead of leaving them
    helpless victims when the next psych drug user snaps?"

    Gun control typically increases violent crime yet some
    politicians continue to tout disarming law abiding citizens
    as a solution. Front Sight has a better solution.

    School districts interested in taking advantage of Front
    Sight's commitment to help protect our children should
    call us at 1.800.987.7719 or e-mail Front Sight at
    info@frontsight.com. More information about Front Sight
    training is available at http://www.frontsight.com."
     
  22. jpk1md

    jpk1md Member

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    There will be significant discussion about what can be done amongst legislators at State and Fed Levels.....

    IF we keep writing e-mail/letters and calls to ALL of our elected officials.....nothing is likely to come of this until AFTER the 2008 election.

    Past 2008 will depend on who wins POTUS and whether the Commie-Crats maintain their ever so slim majority in Congress.

    They ALL remember what happened as a result of AWB I when they lost ~30 seats and their majority in Congress in '94......fear of losing the majority and POTUS is the only thing that keeps them in line.
     
  23. MD_Willington

    MD_Willington Member

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  24. eliphalet

    eliphalet Member

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    Citizens only

    Immigrants should not be allowed to own, posses, or buy a firearm. Citizens only, if you want the rights of citizenship become one. Thats my opinion and I am sticking to it.
    A nonviolent felon (after a undetermined time period) citizen should have no restrictions. NONE!
    A kid that took a car at 16 or was caught with a pocket full of pot at 20 and has been a good boy for several years is no more a danger to society that many of us that are here on this forum.

    How much less successful do you believe the shooting incidents of the last several years would have been if guns could be carried by the citizenry as say in Israel? Not nearly as many lives would have been lost, and the Twin Towers would still be standing. IMHO
     
  25. Tim James

    Tim James Member

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    I would like to see a common-sense ban on .50-caliber crew-served machineguns come out of this situation.
     
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