What NOT to do with an airsoft.

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fantacmet

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Portland Oregon.
Being a fairly sociable person such as I am, and being a bit of a nightowl, but not liking bars. I often made nightly trips to the local stop and rob, usually to pick up something to drink, snack on, and a new pack of smokes, and as such made friends with the employees, mostly a good bunch of guys becuase the manager was a level headed fella. This place is a cornerstone in my neighborhood, and I like to help to keep my area safe. The manager and half the employees knew I had a CHL and carried. Not being the best of neighborhoods, they always felt relief when I would show up at night, and i would usually stick around for awhile and chat between customers. One in particular we hit it off as pretty good friends, and even hung out sometimes outside of his work, just kicking it, or clowning around.

One night he brought his airsoft gun with him to work when he was training someone. I come walking in and he says "whats up" and starts raising an airsoft from underneath his shirt. In my mind all I see is man in front of me addressing me, coming towards me, and gun. I immediately backed off and headed for cover whlie reaching for my sidearm, at which point he dropped his airsoft on the ground and threw his hands up, yelling no no no dude it's just an airsoft. My gun never even got detached from it's holster lockdown, he moved that quickly. I had just gotten my hand around the grip when he dropped it.

This is a man who knew I carried, and was a VERY stupid thing to do on his part. I looked at him like I wanted to beat him. At the time all I wanted to do was take that airsoft shove it up his **YIKES** and empty it. Instead I sat him down and the guy he was training and explained to him the absolute stupidity of his actions. He was damn lucky I've got slightly better then average reflexes, and am not extremely trigger happy. I told him to get rid of his airsoft and anything he had that looked like a gun and go take a year's worth of gun safety classes, as chances are if he tried it on anyone else the next time we met I would probably be attending his funeral.

On the bright side: he started taking a close interest in gun safety and what kinds of things go on with CCW holders. He admitted he had never been so scared in his life, he thought for sure that was the end of his life, and what made it worse it was going to be caused by him doing one of the stupidest things you could ever do.

Incidently this is not the only close encounter I've had with stupid people and airsofts. I own an airsoft myself. I have a group of friends that go in full safety gear and go play airsoft games. Each of them has trained that in site of a police officer to immediately drop their airsoft and raise their hands regardless of if said officer spots them or not. I like airsoft guns, they can be fun, but I have to wonder if they are such a good idea to be honest. Certain airsoft guns can be an invaluable training tool for police and civilian CHL holders to be certain, and even for recreation, but I've been noticing the increase of stupid behaviour by people with them and almost getting themselves shot or worse actually getting shot and not surviving.

If things had turned out differently, if he hadn't dropped it, and I had never seen it was an airsoft, I have no doubt I would have shot him. Of course then I would have felt like complete ????. I would have faced criminal charges and civil charges for shooting an "unarmed" man. People with airsoft guns generally regard themselves as immune to being shot because it is just a toy. That anyone who shoots them should they draw an airsoft on that person would be sued to a great degree. This should be the other way around. Morons with airsoft guns who get themselves shot and survive should be sued for the grief it causes the shooter. However int his day and age stupidity is rewarded, while inteligence is punished.

Just some thoughts to stir on. What would y'all have done?

Rev. Michael
 
Probably about the same reaction as you. You did well to keep your cool, and inform the guy about gun safety. I would be tempted to smack em for such a stupid stunt.
A few kids in this area have learned the hard way , reguarding airsoft and the PD. In a controlled area, with supervision, airsoft can be a great tool. Unfortunately, stupid people will find a way to bring about their own downfall, airsoft gun or other device.
 
Good for you. You reacted in an appropriate, measured fashion. I hope your reply blistered the paint on the wall behind him.
 
fantacmet said:
If things had turned out differently, if he hadn't dropped it, and I had never seen it was an airsoft, I have no doubt I would have shot him. Of course then I would have felt like complete ????. I would have faced criminal charges and civil charges for shooting an "unarmed" man. People with airsoft guns generally regard themselves as immune to being shot because it is just a toy. That anyone who shoots them should they draw an airsoft on that person would be sued to a great degree. This should be the other way around. Morons with airsoft guns who get themselves shot and survive should be sued for the grief it causes the shooter. However int his day and age stupidity is rewarded, while inteligence is punished.

It would have caused all sorts of hassle, but I think you could have articulated to the legal system why you felt you were in immediate fear of death. There are plenty of cases where police defended themselves from charges on the grounds that the replica or airsoft looked like the real thing.

A friend of mine was on the MAX a few years ago when a teenager pulled out a Beretta 92 and pointed it at him. No orange anywhere on it. It looked absolutely real. The kid is damned lucky my friend took it away without breaking his neck.
 
The airsoft stuff looks like all kinds of fun- all the hoot and holler of paintball without the mess.

BUT, as a permitholder, I am concerned about people screwing around with the things. They might be fun to play with, but only in a carefully controlled and posted area. I forever worry about some teenagers playing like little commandos in places where such things are not expected (parking lots, etc.).

I am convinced that the things ought not to look anything like real guns (not that the .gov should legislate it, but the makers and users need to realize that the cool looks might get them killed). The purchasers of them also need to be cautioned that there are those out there with REAL guns (some legal, some not), and messing with them might leave you in the position of violating gunfight rule #1.
 
We had a situation in a suburb of St. Louis where the city fathers acted to restrict airsofts and the like. THR thread here.

fantacmet, you did well. I'm glad it turned out the way it did.
 
The requirement that they have a bright orange barrel isn't a bad one. If you paint it over or cut it down to look all real you have earned your Darwin Award.
 
A couple of signs in an area warning people that an airsof game is in progress and a little blurb about what airsoft is would do the trick.

I use my Airsoft 1911 as a cheap indoor practice gun in the harsh (usually) MN winters. Although the acuracy isn't great and there is no recoil it's a good way to practice some of the basics.
 
i'm not really sure why it is that you keyed on threat instantly, especially when you knew the person involved. if a friend of mine were to pull a gun out of their pants - real or not - i wouldn't assume it was a threat. oh, well, i wasn't there, which brings me to my next point.

I would have faced criminal charges and civil charges for shooting an "unarmed" man.

as for the civil charges, well, that can't be helped. i could sue you because i don't like the color of your shoes. criminal charges on the other hand, would be extremely unlikely. the supreme court case of graham vs. connor is the precedent involved here. this case determined established the standard of objective reasonableness. if a reasonable person would have perceived a threat and acted as you did, then you are justified regardless of information that comes to light later on. it is illogical to hold a person accountable for information that wasn't available to them at the time they acted and the courts are well aware of this.
 
That man was obviously not an airsoft player. Just a man who happens to have an airsoft gun. Big difference. He is a disgrace to real airsofters like myself.
 
Chop, the fatc that I may or may not know someone, is regardless of the point. People change without warning, and can turn on you for something someone said or for whatever reason. It happens all the time. Especially in the particular neighborhood in which I reside(there is a reason I am VERY adamant about carrying at ALL times). right up the street an 8 year old was stabbed to death by a 12 year old because he wanted his backpack. I trained myself mentally to respond to the threat itself, not the specific person. If it had indeed been a real gun and he had indeed intended to shoot me with it, and I had waited becuase I knew the person, then I would have been a dead man, and my 2 week old son would not have a father, I would have been dead long before he was born. The stress probably would have caused my wife to miscarry. Thats is why I responded like I did. In a potentially life threataning situation, you need to be ready immediately. React to the threat first. Delay can get you killed as has been seen numerous times by civilians and officers alike.

Rev. Michael
 
don't get me wrong. i'm not saying that i think you acted poorly; like i said, i wasn't there. i'm just saying that i probably would not have acted the same way. all of my friends are gun owners, several of them have concealed carry permits and a couple carry openly. i would not assume a threat just because i saw a gun any more than i'd assume a threat if i saw a hammer. it is wise to remember that you are not the only law abiding gun owner out there. your threat response should be keyed on actions, body language and speech. if you have never had the chance to run a FATS (firearm training simulator), i highly recommend it. i agree that your aquaintance acted foolishly and i am glad that you have the presence of mind and observational skills that allowed you to avoid making your own serious mistake but i am concerned that you feel like a gun is, in itself, a threat.
 
I get what your saying. I might have failed to mention the point he addressed me specifically, and was apporaching me in a rather aggressive manner. I wouldn't call this person a friend just a casual passive aquaintance. It takes years before someone can be considered a friend. I pick and choose my friends carefully, and my friend's I consider family. Family I tend to trust implicitly and would have definately reacted differently. Of course none of my friends are quite that brainless(perhaps thats why it takes so long to become a friend of mine???), so hey. Since then I must say he has changed alot in his attitude and his outlook on life to a certain degree. Funny how a person can be changed one by one to see reality but people as a whole cannot.

Rev. Michael
 
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